Inverter airconditioners for RVs

[FlyingAroundRV]

Do such things exist? If not, why?
In my S&B I have an “inverter” style AC unit that has a variable speed compressor and fan as compared to the “old style” AC units that just cycle the compressor on and off. It seems that the “old style” ACs are all that are supplied with RVs. These types of units are considered inefficient now, so why are they still used in energy sensitive applications such as RVs?

[JRTJH]

You could ask the same question about the R value of RV walls, ask why almost all RV's come with single pane windows and holes the size of basketball hoops (figuratively speaking) in the floors for uninsulated heat ducts and plumbing runs... Then you could ask why the furnace is, at best, at 60% efficient appliance (stand outside by the exhaust and you'll get almost as much heat as is pushed into the heat ducts)... or, why is more heat vented out of the water heater than is used to heat the water in a 6 gallon tank?

RV's simply aren't regulated like housing and RVIA fights hard to prevent them from being classified as "housing"... There is an annual battle between HUD, EPA and the RV industry to "reclassify RV's as housing"... So far, the RV industry has managed to keep from being classified as "housing"... if it should happen, you'll see more energy efficient appliances, but along with that "improvement" you'll also see "FHA standards for carpeting, plumbing, minimum square footage bedroom space (with closets), all of which are "mandated for housing minimum standards" but currently don't apply to RV's....

Careful what you wish for, if you do get it, you may not like all the rest of the baggage that comes along with a "mandatory inverter air conditioning unit"...

[FlyingAroundRV]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

You could ask the same question about the R value of RV walls, ask why almost all RV's come with single pane windows and holes the size of basketball hoops (figuratively speaking) in the floors for uninsulated heat ducts and plumbing runs... Then you could ask why the furnace is, at best, at 60% efficient appliance (stand outside by the exhaust and you'll get almost as much heat as is pushed into the heat ducts)... or, why is more heat vented out of the water heater than is used to heat the water in a 6 gallon tank?

RV's simply aren't regulated like housing and RVIA fights hard to prevent them from being classified as "housing"... There is an annual battle between HUD, EPA and the RV industry to "reclassify RV's as housing"... So far, the RV industry has managed to keep from being classified as "housing"... if it should happen, you'll see more energy efficient appliances, but along with that "improvement" you'll also see "FHA standards for carpeting, plumbing, minimum square footage bedroom space (with closets), all of which are "mandated for housing minimum standards" but currently don't apply to RV's....

Careful what you wish for, if you do get it, you may not like all the rest of the baggage that comes along with a "mandatory inverter air conditioning unit"...

Except, I'm not asking about all those other things, nor am I asking that they be "mandatory" [especially how sensitive THAT word is these days for some people].
What I am asking, wondering really, is; given the power constraints that pertain to RVs because of the services available at CGs and RV wiring, why the RV industry doesn't use these more efficient AC units and by extension why the industry that produces AC units doesn't seem to be producing them for RVs.
John, I think you might take a bit of care not to interpret what other people are asking, beyond what they've actually asked.

[roadglide]

Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV

Except, I'm not asking about all those other things, nor am I asking that they be "mandatory" [especially how sensitive THAT word is these days for some people].
What I am asking, wondering really, is; given the power constraints that pertain to RVs because of the services available at CGs and RV wiring, why the RV industry doesn't use these more efficient AC units and by extension why the industry that produces AC units doesn't seem to be producing them for RVs.
John, I think you might take a bit of care not to interpret what other people are asking, beyond what they've actually asked.

The question was decent and John answered good. What part didn’t you get about most of the RV industry doesn’t care because there isn’t a building codes in place and there just a camper for most folks.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV

Except, I'm not asking about all those other things, nor am I asking that they be "mandatory" [especially how sensitive THAT word is these days for some people].
What I am asking, wondering really, is; given the power constraints that pertain to RVs because of the services available at CGs and RV wiring, why the RV industry doesn't use these more efficient AC units and by extension why the industry that produces AC units doesn't seem to be producing them for RVs.
John, I think you might take a bit of care not to interpret what other people are asking, beyond what they've actually asked.

I'm thinking John addressed your initial question. "Wondering" why the RV industry doesn't do this or that is sort of like "wondering" why gas prices are so high (we can deduce that), the moon is yellow/blue/white, etc. - on an RV forum. I'm sure others may have some opinion based on your question but I'm not sure what parameters you seem to have on what "you've actually asked"?? Your two posts as opposed to the reply you received seem to be contradictory or confused?

[flybouy]

Strictly guessing but RV a/c units essentially are built like a window a/c that get's bounced around on the roof. I'm not aware of any manufacturer that makes what you desire in the application suitable for an RV. if it were available I'm guessing it would be cost prohibitive.
John's reply was right on point IMHO. Ask a hypothetical question and expecting a focused single point reply in a Forum is unrealistic.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV

Except, I'm not asking about all those other things, nor am I asking that they be "mandatory" [especially how sensitive THAT word is these days for some people].
What I am asking, wondering really, is; given the power constraints that pertain to RVs because of the services available at CGs and RV wiring, why the RV industry doesn't use these more efficient AC units and by extension why the industry that produces AC units doesn't seem to be producing them for RVs.
John, I think you might take a bit of care not to interpret what other people are asking, beyond what they've actually asked.

Let's approach it a different way: Adding a more energy efficient air conditioner would be "nice for some people".. So would adding a more energy efficient furnace to replace the 60% efficiency one that's standard equipment on every RV being built for the low/medium price range. So would adding "self regulating faucets so you don't get burned when someone flushes the toilet or turns on the kitchen faucet. So would a large number of other "upgrades" that cost more than the current equipment. Any upgrade YOU want may be LAST on someone else's list and they may refuse to buy a trailer because of the cost increase for something they DON'T WANT.. Which does Keystone force on everyone and which do they bypass? I'd suspect that none of the RV manufacturers are that "refined in customer desires" and deal more with what sells successfully to the masses...

Then, adding it as an option also costs more for the manufacturer because they have to stock two items, manage to get the correct one in the right trailer going down the line and install all the correct wiring/thermostat differences (not to mention In-Command programming changes) to support that optional choice during manufacturing. Every choice, every optional item costs Keystone profits in the manufacturing process. Even if YOU don't want it, if it's available, Keystone has to support it, bid for the products, stock them, support the warranty and manage the customer service training to answer questions when an owner calls asking for "how do I" ....

It's the COST of those upgrades when factored into manufacture's profits, the ability to remain competitive with other manufacturers who build the same floorplan and sell it for the same "competitive price". So, if Keystone builds it and adds a $250 price increase for an inverter A/C, they are moving the price out of competition with Forest River and Jayco, and placing the Keystone model in the price range of a Jayco that's 2' longer with a larger bathroom and/or other features that make the Keystone "non-competitive". There's a reason why trailers come with Trailer King tires and "low bid furniture"... It's so the manufacturer can install an air conditioner (low grade/low budget) so they can sell the trailer to the public without overpricing their model to remain competitive.

If one manufacturer upgrades an item, he runs the risk of outpricing his competition. If all the manufacturers get together to do the upgrade, they run the risk of corporate collusion, price fixing, and running afoul of the anti-trust laws. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.....

In response to the bolded comment: Being factual and answering a complete question is, IMO far more informative than answering it by simply saying, "It won't sell good enough to make it profitable". Which is only a very small part of the factors considered by any manufacturer when building a trailer. As an example, if the price of staples goes up $5 per trailer, Keystone has to cut $5 on some other item to maintain the annual profit margin... It's not as simple as just raising the MSRP $5 and clocking out for the day. Maybe just read the part you want to read and when you get bored, just turn the page...

[FlyingAroundRV]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Strictly guessing but RV a/c units essentially are built like a window a/c that get's bounced around on the roof. I'm not aware of any manufacturer that makes what you desire in the application suitable for an RV. if it were available I'm guessing it would be cost prohibitive.
John's reply was right on point IMHO. Ask a hypothetical question and expecting a focused single point reply in a Forum is unrealistic.

This is the kind of answer I was seeking, not a lecture on how the RV industry is fighting against being regulated like the housing industry, nor a dissertation about all the other energy inefficiencies built into RVs.



I was wanting to know if these AC units would be weight or cost prohibitive, or whether they may be too bulky etc. I was looking for practical answers from those who might know. Maybe I should have spelled this all out in my question, but couldn't be bothered to type that much. Besides which, when a question gets wordy, people don't bother reading it.


Yes, I know RVs are built light and cheap to keep weight and cost down.
But when I turn the AC on in my trailer, I can hardly run anything else because of the power it consumes while running.

Why did I react they way I did? I asked a simple question and John's answer went right over the top and came across as a rant about regulation IMHO.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV

This is the kind of answer I was seeking, not a lecture on how the RV industry is fighting against being regulated like the housing industry, nor a dissertation about all the other energy inefficiencies built into RVs.



I was wanting to know if these AC units would be weight or cost prohibitive, or whether they may be too bulky etc. I was looking for practical answers from those who might know. Maybe I should have spelled this all out in my question, but couldn't be bothered to type that much. Besides which, when a question gets wordy, people don't bother reading it.


Yes, I know RVs are built light and cheap to keep weight and cost down.
But when I turn the AC on in my trailer, I can hardly run anything else because of the power it consumes while running.

Why did I react they way I did? I asked a simple question and John's answer went right over the top and came across as a rant about regulation IMHO.

I'll try one more time.

Inverter Air Conditioners for RV's are not available in the US (as far as I know)

The only one I'm aware of is the Dometic Harrier Inverter A/C. It's available in your part of the world, not here. In New Zealand, it's advertised for 3199 NZ which is $2247.62 USD. That alone would preclude installation in US recreational vehicles for almost everyone. Then, the only models available are 220/240 volt models. No US built trailer comes with that power source available.

It's not feasible with current trailers to install such a device without major upgrades to the electrical system which would make it cost prohibitive. Maybe someone will start building a cheaper inverter air conditioner, adaptable for RV use that will operate on the industry standard 120 volt system. Until then, it's something you'd have to bring with you from AU or NZ and then modify your RV electrical system to even turn it on.

[NH_Bulldog]

Primarily it is about cost. If you can even find a rooftop inverter unit here in the states, it can cost up to 3 times what a standard unit cost. Then there is the power issue, usually either 240 vac or more uncommon, 12 vdc. Mini-splits in homes are only recently coming into common usage here so maybe in time, but I think it’s a long way off for RV’s if at all. That being said, if you can source one where you live, there is nothing to stop you from installing one yourself. Many of us add custom extras anyway, so why not?

[CedarCreekWoody]

You gotta love it when someone asks a question and then gets a bit testy when they don't like the responses they get, even when the responses are spot on.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV

This is the kind of answer I was seeking, not a lecture on how the RV industry is fighting against being regulated like the housing industry, nor a dissertation about all the other energy inefficiencies built into RVs.



I was wanting to know if these AC units would be weight or cost prohibitive, or whether they may be too bulky etc. I was looking for practical answers from those who might know. Maybe I should have spelled this all out in my question, but couldn't be bothered to type that much. Besides which, when a question gets wordy, people don't bother reading it.


Yes, I know RVs are built light and cheap to keep weight and cost down.
But when I turn the AC on in my trailer, I can hardly run anything else because of the power it consumes while running.

Why did I react they way I did? I asked a simple question and John's answer went right over the top and came across as a rant about regulation IMHO.

Your question was a simple one and answered with some explanations trying to explain why - which you seem to take offense to.

As you stated you didn't want to be "bothered" to type and explain your question but then go on to state that you turn on your A/C and can't run anything else when it's running. Huh? That is what happens when you try to run too many things on an undersized AC service....anywhere. Answer in an RV? Get a larger incoming service. I'm assuming you have 30A? I have 50A and have ZERO problems with using anything I want.

Buying an RV with a set electrical service then lament that "someone" didn't do something different to make it better is just unrealistic. Most folks know it and deal with it.