Cougar vs Premier vs Outback Ultra-Lite

[RLundin]

Looking at getting a higher end travel trailer but one that can be towed via a 1/2 ton pick up with max towing package. Thus, looking at the smaller Travel Trailers that Keystone has (ie Cougar 22 MLS).

What are the key differences between Cougar, Premier and Outback Ultra-Lite travel trailers in the 22-26" ft range?

Also, if you bought a Cougar travel trailer, what other brands did you think were comparable and a close second? As an example the Grand Design Imagine trailers look nice and see to have good quality.

Thank You for your help!

[sourdough]

I think maybe we first need to determine the tow vehicle? 1/2 ton with tow package; what is the make/year/model of truck as well as cab/bed configuration? Drivetrain and axle ratio? What does the yellow sticker inside the driver door tell you the payload is?

Those will be key components to determining what you can tow with your truck. All of the listed trailers are 7k+ lbs. gvw in their smallest configurations (22') which will tax a "non well equipped" 1/2 ton.

As far as the 3 models you listed Keystone segregates them into "comfort" models (lowest level), "premium" models (mid level) and "luxury" models (top of the line so to speak). The cougar is in their "luxury" line while the other 2 are in the "premium" line. The Cougar will have a bit better, and more, amenities. What those are vs what the others do or don't have really needs to be seen first hand with a good walk through and walk around.

As far as other brands I've looked at a lot. IMO Keystone will offer the best floorplans and build quality at any price point. Grand Design is basically an overpriced Keystone (again IMO after looking at many). The Imagine used to be their entry level trailer but now they have the Transcend which may have taken that slot and put the Imagine it the middle under the Reflection. It will compare to a Passport or thereabouts in the Keystone line as I recall. Note that all the GD models of bumper pulls say that they welcome "medium duty trucks" which again would point to the need of ascertaining the towing capability of your truck.

[RLundin]

In terms of Grand Design, the Reflection Travel Trailers begin at 33ft so these are not a consideration.

I'm wondering about other models that directly compete against Keystone Cougar's smaller trailers.

In terms of tow vehicle, I will be buying a new one but "hope" to stay with a 1/2 ton but that might not be possible.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RLundin

In terms of Grand Design, the Reflection Travel Trailers begin at 33ft so these are not a consideration.

I'm wondering about other models that directly compete against Keystone Cougar's smaller trailers.

In terms of tow vehicle, I will be buying a new one but "hope" to stay with a 1/2 ton but that might not be possible.

Are you referencing models from other manufacturers? If so you will probably have to do a lot of "hands on", on site looking to make that determination between them. I looked at many, if not most, manufacturers before I bought my Cougar High Country back in 2014. None of them could compare at that time at that price point.

Trying to compare RVs without seeing them and walking through them is pretty much impossible. Lots of things you have to be there to see many times like, "where IS the 2nd gray tank dump handle"? Is it (and the others) convenient vs stuck half way under the trailer under a slide? The feel of the "solid surface" countertop? No, they are all NOT the same. The list is endless and some of those items can easily drive you to a different trailer/brand simply because one is so much more user friendly.

If you are going to get a new truck is there a reason you have to have a 1/2 ton? If towing is in your future a 1/2 ton probably shouldn't be IMO. I started with one and used one for many years because I was hard headed and did not want the harsh ride of a HD truck. Went to a 3/4 and found it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be and when you air down the tires (non towing) they're very comfortable - and give you a safety cushion while towing vs being "on the edge" all time. Something to think about.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by RLundin

Looking at getting a higher end travel trailer but one that can be towed via a 1/2 ton pick up with max towing package. Thus, looking at the smaller Travel Trailers that Keystone has (ie Cougar 22 MLS).

Just going to make a blanket statement here: for the vast majority of trailers that Keystone marks as "half-ton towable," they're lying.

I bought a Cougar 26 and had an F-150. Not even close to being within the truck's capabilities. And Cougars longer than 26 still carry that decal.

Fast calculation: Take 13% of the trailer's MAX weight as the tongue weight. Subtract that from your payload as marked on your individual truck's yellow doorframe sticker (not somebody's manual). Subtract 100 lb. for your hitch. Subtract the weight of you and your truck passengers, pets, and truck cargo. In most cases, a half-ton TV is already in negative country.

If you have the freedom to choose your truck now, consider a 3/4T at least... unless you want a real small, real light travel trailer.

[Northofu1]

I like Cougar over the Premier and Outback. I had a Premier 26 RBPR, great floorplan but did not have near the amenities that my cougar has. IMO Cougar is built better the other two.
After Grand Design sold out, they are just another company making trailers for their parent owner.

[RLundin]

[QUOTE= I bought a Cougar 26 and had an F-150. Not even close to being within the truck's capabilities. And Cougars longer than 26 still carry that decal.[/QUOTE]

What other trailer brands did you consider before purchasing your Cougar? Trailers are in real short supply right now and no one seems to have trailers on-hand to look at so I need to narrow down my search vs just showing up and looking only what the dealer has on hand.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by RLundin

What other trailer brands did you consider before purchasing your Cougar? Trailers are in real short supply right now and no one seems to have trailers on-hand to look at so I need to narrow down my search vs just showing up and looking only what the dealer has on hand.

It was suggest you provide complete info for your tow vehicle; not much point of making suggestions for a 1/2 ton as payload and towing capability vary widely. it was suggested you provide:

"what is the make/year/model of truck as well as cab/bed configuration? Drivetrain and axle ratio? What does the yellow sticker inside the driver door tell you the payload is?"

Without knowing these things, folks will likely be recommending campers that are not appropriate. Keep in mind the higher quality the more weight in general. Provide info on your tow vehicle that was requested and your responses will actually have some context.

[RLundin]

I will be purchasing a new truck to pull the travel trailer. I'm hoping to narrow down my search to travel trailer brands somewhat comparable to Cougar travel trailers.

[wiredgeorge]

Your camper and tow vehicle must be compatible and the shortcoming of most 1/2 ton pickups is lack of payload. You are doing the right thing by research but DO NOT use any figure other than the truck's actual payload found on the yellow/white placard in the door frame and the gross weight of the trailer. Towing capacity and published tongue weights and the like are marketing fiction.

It is always the best practice to buy a tow vehicle that exceeds what you believe you will need. For a small camper, a 3/4 ton gas truck is probably a great option. If this is your first camper purchase, be thoughtful about which things are important.

We find that the smaller trailers tend to create more compromises so you will tend to favor trailers that are a bit bigger. The bigger the trailer, the fewer the floor plan compromises. We have a 28' fifth wheel and the bathroom has a tub that is really narrow and one of our not so favorite features. We have tried to solve this issue with an articulating shower rod so the curtain isn't on top of us when we shower. Our bed was originally an RV queen and we swapped for a full sized residential queen and getting around the bed was made more difficult.

If we had a 33' fifth wheel, these issues would be lessened. Our parking spot at home can't accommodate much more length than 30' so we are in a camper that is space compromised.

The smaller campers you are asking about will have even more compromises. Don't buy a tow vehicle that forces you into a camper with more compromises than you can live with and will want to upgrade in a year or two or even after your first camping trip.

[JRTJH]

A Bullet 210 RUDWE COMFORT (cheaper, less amenities) 26'5" has a shipping weight is 4345 pounds. MSRP $28905

A Cougar 22 RBSWE LUXURY (more cost and more amenities) 25'11" has a shipping weight of 5594 pounds. That's 6 inches shorter and weighs 1249 pounds more. MSRP $38340

An Airstream Globetrotter 25FB (even more cost/more amenities) 25'11" has a shipping weight of 6100 pounds. MSRP $112800

A Grand Designs Imagine XLS 22RBE is 25'11" with a shipping weight of 5125 pounds. MSRP is $36678 and compares closer to the Bullet than the Cougar.

A Grand Designs Reflection compares closer to the Cougar, but there are no trailers offered in the size range.

As you can see, price varies over a wide range, so what you're willing to pay and what you are capable of paying is a major factor in choosing a $28K or a $110K trailer.

Just as important, empty trailer weight, something you will NEVER find when towing, ranges from 4345 to 6100 pounds.

What you'll be towing, after you add cargo and camping equipment, will range from 6395 to 7200 pounds, and possibly even more than that, depending on the hitch you select and any cargo that you carry in the tow vehicle, family size/weight and how the vehicle is equipped (leather seats, electronic options weigh more than vinyl seats and no options).

So, you could easily be spending well over $200 K for a truck/trailer that weighs far more than a "typical half ton can handle" or you could be spending $75K for a minimally equipped truck and a "budget" priced trailer that is well matched to a carefully selected half ton truck.

There is NO "one answer" for what's best, what's better or what's not even to be considered...

As an example, if there are two people in your family you likely wouldn't consider a bunkhouse trailer and lose the floorspace in a 26' model while on the other hand, if you have 4 children (or plan to have them in the near future) you wouldn't want to invest $100 K in an Airstream 26' trailer that only sleeps 2.

Floorplan and usability for YOUR lifestyle is far more important than whether the decal on the front cap is Bullet, Cougar, Imagine, Jayco or Airstream.

The truck you select will, in all probability, be "at its maximum towing/payload capacity, regardless of which 26' trailer you choose and many trailer choices in that length will "far outclass" many half ton vehicles that are not properly equipped.....

So, the process should be:

What floorplan suits our needs?
Who makes that floorplan and how do those (not all) models "stack up"?
How much does each of the trailers with that floorplan weigh?
How much does each of t he trailers with that floorplan cost?
Is the cost worth the difference in construction/amenities?
Which tow vehicle do I want?
Can that vehicle be ordered so it's properly equipped to tow the trailer I select?
Is there room for "growth" if I find the trailer is too small for us without buying a larger tow vehicle?
Where do I park the trailer when not using it?
Can I park the tow vehicle at home or will I need to park "on the street"?
If the vehicle is a daily driver, is there room to park it at work?


And finally:
Can I afford those two purchases?
What is the reputation of the dealerships for both the trailer and the tow vehicle?

[flybouy]

Unfortunatly you have 2 variables in your equation and no reliable numbers to work with. Mathematicians at MIT Couldn’t solve that formula. Unfortunatly there aren't any dealerships that I'm aware of where you can buy a truck and a trsiler paired up like a Barbie set. In today's current market environment there's limited opportunity to "kick the tires" on either vehicle.

My suggestion would be think carefully on what you want, what you're willing to accept, and write down the most imprortant priorities for you. Start with the most limiting factors first. Budget is a typical limitation for most folks. Write down the total amount you're able/willing to spend. Then write down the next most impactful limitation. Is that the 1/2 ton truck? Or is that the trailer length?

So a lot of soul searching is in order and I'd advise using the gross weight of the trailer to calculate the tounge weight. Take the Gross trailer weight and multiply by .13 then add 100 lbs for the hitch. Then the resultant will be the ESTIMATED tongue weight. That part of the equation eill be much easier to estimate than the truck load capacity to match up ti the propsed load.

Since truck inventory is low the challenge will be in finfing real world payload numbers. The ojly way yo truley know that is to weight the truck. You can get an estimate by looking at that payload and tire inflation plackard. Start looking at new and used trucks to get a "feel" for where those numbers typically land. The challange is, matching a trailer that may max out the 1/2 ton truck capacity. That capacity is a moving target so you end up trying to "pin the tail on the donkey".

Always, always consider more truck than you think you'll need. Having excess payload will never hurt, never be detrimental . Being on "the hairy edge" or over the capacity of the truck will always be a negative. JMHO

[RWRiley]

Originally Posted by RLundin

What are the key differences between Cougar, Premier and Outback Ultra-Lite travel trailers in the 22-26" ft range?

I don't know what the differences are, but I can tell you I have a Premier 24RKPR, and we don't like it. I am looking at trading after only 2 years. Lot's of things bug me about the TT. Only one 120V outlet in the kitchen, and it's 6" off the floor, so we have to mess around with extention chords and TV trays to get everything plugged in. No drawers in the Kitchen, and the cupboard doors open up with no way to stay open by themselves so we have to use 1 hand to hold them open and the other to get whatever we want out of it. My baggage area isn't big enough, I have 2 Gray tanks with separate sewer hook ups, etc, etc.

As far as towing with a 1/2 ton, I don't have a problem. My Tahoe has Max Trailer Pack and a 1,797# payload, so I am well within GVWR, GCWR, Rear Axle, Front Axle, etc. The trailer has wide set axles, so I don't have a problem with sway. The tires on my rig have a max speed of 65 mph, which I don't usually exceed, but I don't like running down the road at 100% of the rated speed.

We are going to just take our losses and get rid of it. We are looking at a Grand Design 2600RB, and a Salem 25RBHL.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RWRiley

I don't know what the differences are, but I can tell you I have a Premier 24RKPR, and we don't like it. I am looking at trading after only 2 years. Lot's of things bug me about the TT. Only one 120V outlet in the kitchen, and it's 6" off the floor, so we have to mess around with extention chords and TV trays to get everything plugged in. No drawers in the Kitchen, and the cupboard doors open up with no way to stay open by themselves so we have to use 1 hand to hold them open and the other to get whatever we want out of it. My baggage area isn't big enough, I have 2 Gray tanks with separate sewer hook ups, etc, etc.

As far as towing with a 1/2 ton, I don't have a problem. My Tahoe has Max Trailer Pack and a 1,797# payload, so I am well within GVWR, GCWR, Rear Axle, Front Axle, etc. The trailer has wide set axles, so I don't have a problem with sway. The tires on my rig have a max speed of 65 mph, which I don't usually exceed, but I don't like running down the road at 100% of the rated speed.

We are going to just take our losses and get rid of it. We are looking at a Grand Design 2600RB, and a Salem 25RBHL.

In all fairness everything you mention are things that a potential buyer looks at prior to purchase and then determines if they want them - good or bad. I do understand buying something and some unknowns pop up but things like lack of storage or plugs would be something you consider prior to purchase. BTW I doubt you get that GD for the same price as the Premier...

[German Shepherd Guy]

Hello RLundin. I have a 2019 Premier 26RBPR. Great floor plan and we love it. Lots of storage. But then there are only the two of us and the dogs. We opted for the table & chairs vs the dinning nook so we could put dog crates there for our puppies. We have more storage than we really need. I used to pull it around with a 1/2 ton Suburban, and I pulled it through the Colorado Mountains. Where we don't really deal with a lot of side wind like out on the plains. I moved up to a 3/4 ton Suburban and will tell you there is a WORLD of difference and I would never go back to the 1/2 ton. Seriously.
I think the quality is comparable through the three brands you mentioned. So it is really the floor plan and what you are comfortable towing. I looked at the Premier 24RKPR but thought the rear kitchen layout was problematic. We would get another 26RBPR. BUT I would suggest the 3/4 ton over the 1/2 ton for the towing of it.
Hope that helped.

[Miloski]

F-150's can tow trailers and this site shows you can. Go to https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/ and look up your truck year and modal then run the numbers. Yes, you can run up to max weight, all commercial vehicles on the road do the same because their built that way and so is a pick-up truck. Most accidents are not from weight but speeding and unattentively driving. If you're new at pulling a trailer just do the speed limit, be attentive to the road conditions and how you and others drive, don't get cocky and you'll be ok. Most models have a similar site. Just to let you know we love our 1/2 ton Cougar and it runs a ton lighter then a normal modal.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Miloski

F-150's can tow trailers and this site shows you can. Go to https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/ and look up your truck year and modal then run the numbers. Yes, you can run up to max weight, all commercial vehicles on the road do the same because their built that way and so is a pick-up truck. Most accidents are not from weight but speeding and unattentively driving. If you're new at pulling a trailer just do the speed limit, be attentive to the road conditions and how you and others drive, don't get cocky and you'll be ok. Most models have a similar site. Just to let you know we love our 1/2 ton Cougar and it runs a ton lighter then a normal modal.

Oh, my.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Miloski

F-150's can tow trailers and this site shows you can. Go to https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/ and look up your truck year and modal then run the numbers. Yes, you can run up to max weight, all commercial vehicles on the road do the same because their built that way and so is a pick-up truck. Most accidents are not from weight but speeding and unattentively driving. If you're new at pulling a trailer just do the speed limit, be attentive to the road conditions and how you and others drive, don't get cocky and you'll be ok. Most models have a similar site. Just to let you know we love our 1/2 ton Cougar and it runs a ton lighter then a normal modal.

You need to do more real life looking at trucks. The sales brochures are just that....to sell trucks. The payload numbers you see there have absolutely zero to do with the payload you will have on your particular truck....could be hundreds or a thousand less. You do yourself and others a disservice by thinking those numbers have anything to do with a real life truck sitting in your drive.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Miloski

F-150's can tow trailers and this site shows you can. Go to https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/ and look up your truck year and modal then run the numbers. Yes, you can run up to max weight, all commercial vehicles on the road do the same because their built that way and so is a pick-up truck. Most accidents are not from weight but speeding and unattentively driving. If you're new at pulling a trailer just do the speed limit, be attentive to the road conditions and how you and others drive, don't get cocky and you'll be ok. Most models have a similar site. Just to let you know we love our 1/2 ton Cougar and it runs a ton lighter then a normal modal.

99.99999% of the so called "1/2 ton towable" 5th wheels WILL exceed the payload posted on each individual truck loooonnnnggg before they could ever "carry" the max tow weights posted in the above Ford link.
As it's been stated numerous times those tow weights are of no value in the real rv world of towing. Those numbers are arrived at by using conventional trailers, not RVs, where the weight is placed directly over the axles considerably lowering the pin/tongue weights, a practice that can not be done with a RV.
The thing to remember is that 1/2 pickups may be a consideration for TTs of 25' to maybe 30', but they are not suitable for the majority of 5th wheels regardless of what cute gimmicky name the manufacturer may give it or how much towing weight the truck manufacturers brag about in their advertising.
Will a 1/2 ton "pull" a 5th wheel? Hell yeah! Probably a 40'er! They show one "moving" a million pound freight car..........with a tow strap & another "moving" the space shuttle.
Can a 1/2 ton truck "carry" the weight of a so called 1/2 ton 5th wheel? NOT SAFELY within the limits of the truck!!!!
From the majority of rv accidents I've witnessed or seen pictured "speed & inattentive driving" were not the cause but rather mismatched rv & tow vehicle due to poor advice from forum members that insist 1/2 tons are capable, poor information from manufacturers as the posted link above & rv/truck dealers that have no idea about towing but need to sell something.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by ExtremeRVing

We have a 2021 Cougar Half Ton 30RKDWE travel trailer. We currently pull it with a 2020 Ford F-150 3.5l Ecoboost short bed 4x2.
The truck is more than capable to pull the trailer, and in our specific case, all the numbers are well within the manufacturers guidelines (both Ford and Cougar)
Now the trailer is 34 feet 9 inches long (coupler to bumper)

Good luck with that. I was towing a 26' Cougar TT with that model truck (different year), and after I did the actual math (not the literature fantasy math) I was way over payload.

Do this math and see if you are still in your happy place.