Sorry, I intended it to be a short summary
My Fuzion 420 living room slide out failed on me but luckily it happened while in my garage with room to work on it. Figured would do a write up on this as some key points would have really helped me, especially considering mine is a very long ~12ft slide that is extra deep and has a full size couch on it plus a full size residential refrigerator which makes it the worse case scenario and several tips below are related to this that might not apply to a smaller slideout. There are YouTube videos on this which you would want to watch, but still had to piece the various info together and talk with Bal support to fully understand everything.
It is cable driven Bal Accu-Slide. The slide itself does not have rollers as it slide on a plastic wear bar. Worse design ever and this is on Keystone and not Bal as they recommend rollers
!!! The funny thing is my small wardrobe slide has four rollers but no this big one
This is what some of the pieces I removed looked like and can tell that is a lot of resistance:
Symptoms were could tell over time the motor was struggling more and more but I am sure now it was never right from day one. Eventually it started tripping the auto resetting fuse as pulling too many amps on occassion, recently it would take like 6 auto resets to get the slide in or out, and then the gearbox stripped out as started troubleshooting it. At this point its almost a guarantee that your cables are far out of adjustment and to fix all this is a big project but really not that hard if willing.
First, verify the slideout drive type is the Accu-Slide and that rollers are not already installed. I say this because I assumed mine was on rollers since my small slide had them visibly and assumed they were just inboard of the weather strips on the large slide and it almost appeared it was rolling due to the marking on the bottom of the slide, but its just wear from where the slide supports are when it slides across the wear bar:
(pic taken later as I started roller install)*
ROLLER UPGRADE, SLIDEOUT POSITION, HEADER CLEARANCE/REMOVAL, and JACKING UP THE SLIDEOUT:
I spoke to a Bal support guy (called me back quick, super nice, answered follow up call on a Saturday!) later on for cable adjustment help but he said its really is only necessary to do two or three rollers. For the first two you would want them at the far edges of the slideout as that is where the very large majority of the weight is. He said even with a worn wear bar it will be ok for thousands of cycles in their testing with just these two. I had already installed 10 rollers with two being at the far edges and a little beyond the slide width as its literally the first 1in or so where most the weight is as can see on the wear bar pictures above. The others were placed to have a roller on each of the areas where the slideout floor is reinforced/solid. I could fairly easily tell this by pressing on the bottom of the slideout as would bow with slight hand pressure where not solid/reinforced.
Its critical to note the floors on slide outs are different. I believe mine likely had 2in or so supports about every 18in, but go by where yo see the wear and can feel it is solid. If you place a roller in a non-reinforced area it will almost certainly punch through the thin board/material they use. My small wardrobe slide seems to have a solid floor across all of it. I guess I got a hybrid model LOL.
I went with the Lippert J-36 rollers as they seem to be one that adds the least height. These rest under the slideout so they should stay in place over time. Its actually very easy to install them once slideout is lifted as just two screws into the wood flooring.
One of the most stressful parts of installing the rollers was getting it jacked up to insert the rollers. Before you do this make sure to check the clearance of your slideout at the top on the inside. My header board was done incorrect from the factory as it knocks off air conditioning ducts, so I only had like 1/2in clearance! The rollers also raised mine by about 1/2in+ so I will need to do some interior mold trimming to get my header back on and have clearance! You need to have probably 2+ inches to insert the rollers without it making contact with the roof. I had to remove my header. Luckily Keystone actually designed mine very well with a motor access panel in the middle that removes with two obvious screws, can then slide out the thin wood panel that runs across the top of the two side sections, and then the two side section frames remove with just three wood screws along the bottom. Some slideouts are "stapled" together which will add further work do do this and a lot of risk damaging something.
Also before jacking up the slideout, make sure to realize you likely only have about two inches on the outside/roof to jack it up before it will hit the top of the cutout on the frame for the slideout. Climb up on a tall ladder outside to watch this as you jack it up in small increments. You don't want to cause roof damage to your slide or crush something! This is generally only a concern when jacking the edges of the slideout as once get inward the floor just bows rather than the slideout lifting up much on this large of a slideout.
Took me a while to figure it out, but basically the slideout is really only well supported at the edges and somewhat supported along the outer wall. Its basically a wet noodle otherwise especially with all the weight mine has on it. In any case, even if you use say a 3ft long 6x6 across the reinforced areas of the slideout it will still bow ALOT
I had best luck by placing my long 6x6 at about a 45 degree angle to the slide across as many supports as I could and so that it also placed pressure at the very rear of the slideout. I positioned just beyond where I was going to insert the roller to give some working room. You will need to move the jack multiple times as can only do one or two like this. When do the ends of the slide make sure its over the outer end and can do three or so rollers here as its better supported and does not bow as much. Just jack it up slowly at each location and watch for enough gap to install the roller (I needed about 1in or above the wear bar). This pic below shows how much it bows. This is even at the edge and shows what clearance is like to install the roller, which is already in place to the left (only the first couple feet elevated then it sags back down)*
Once you have jacked it up and have ok clearance. Use a good blade tool to cut the weather stripping out and then a sawzall to cut the wear bar. Make sure to go a little wider than the roller as they extend out a bit on both sides when rolling. Be VERY aware of how much length under the slideout you have to were you will end up cutting into the visible flooring when the slidout is out all the way (its likely only a couple inches beyond wear bar)or potentially hit decorative trim on the front of the slideout deck. I overlooked this and took some bad advice of using a very long sawzall blade so now I have several cuts in my linoleum floor that are visible with the slide out
I am not too bummed as already had scratches from pebbles being stuck under the slide. Its nice to have the slide lifted a bit now! Its a little hard to get a good angle to cut the wear bar straight down so you will end up going into the floor a bit especially at the outside edge under the slideout where not visible. Make sure to use a new blade as the wear bar is a dense material and wear gloves as the bottom of slideout tears up your hands. A sawzall short blade is safest but depending upon angles might use a more mid length one and make sure to not push it in too far beyond the wear guard.
You are also going to run into screws in the wear bar that normally hold it in place screwed in from the top so can remove them. They will need to be cut off to get the wear bar out. They seemed to be about every foot so almost half of my rollers required a screw to be cut out. Make an extra cut on either edge of the screw location with the sawzall into the wear bar so can pull out a partial piece to gain access to cutting these screws off. I actually had the best luck with a small hand saw with brand new metal blade just be aware could go through a few blades. With only 5 or so cuts the screws was cut off but the blades only lasted for 5 or so screws also. The sawzall with a brand new metal blade worked well too but not with an old blade. Cut the screw at the floor with an angle into the wood floor to ensure its not in the way of the roller being inserted flush.
I used #10 tapered head wood screws that were 1 1/4in long and they held very well. Screw in at slight angle down. #12 screws might be a better match but I liked the way the #10's went in.
GEARBOX/MOTOR REPLACEMENT:
My gearbox ended up failing with the slideout being about 3/4 the way out. I got real lucky on this as I concluded that is about perfect to do all the work I needed to which included enough access to install the rollers, could still reach the motor assembly to change it, and could also access all the cable adjusters. With this big of a slide it really limits what will work for repair access.
If you want to get the slideout most the way out you can do this. Press the button to activate the slideout motor and then have two people push the slideout at both ends. You have to activate the motor otherwise it acts as a brake and you will never move it. The same could be done to get the slideout in. This is assuming the gearbox is only partially stripped out like mine was. The gearbox thus still assists a bit but still hard. If the gearbox completely fails it seems will be really tough and maybe not possible to move this big of a slide, especially without rollers being installed. Point is, I am now carrying a spare motor/gearbox with me and glad did all the rollers.
Typically just the gearbox fails (you can hear it slipping/grinding teeth when it does) so I will keep my original motor as a spare. I thus ordered the 225008 motor/gearbox/bracket full assembly along with another R25076-1 gearbox alone. I found it interesting that both these are apparently Bal's new hi torque/reinforced model but one had an additional plate on the back of the housing. Turns out this is a newer rev but it is simply just a drip pan incase grease ever leaks out the gearbox so does not get on the slideout. Bal support guy explained to me its really not necessary as root cause was wrong grease used by a vendor that led to it seeping out and no longer a concern. In other words, its not an additional reinforcement plate.
If you want to use your existing motor its easy to do so. The motor shaft simply slips into the gearbox so nothing to take apart. To remove the gearbox its just the two vertical carriage bolts that hold it to the bracket and can wiggle it out with the motor still in place.
To remove just the gearbox or the entire motor/gearbox assembly you first have to remove the two chains. This requires a lot more slack then you would think. The easiest way to do this is to just completely remove one set of cables on each side of the motor. In the YouTube's I watched there was a lot of obsession with marking where the cables were at prior to removal but I am fairly confident that by the time it gets to needing this repair your cables already came loose/twisted, etc. and will need to be re-adjusted anyways so would not bother with this tedious task. The one thing you do want to mark is the chain positions on the gear box. It still might be desired later to move it a tooth or so for proper cable adjustments but in most cases not likely (I was not this fortunate). Bal support gave me the tip to use a small zip tie as it wont come off. I placed one on each of the links just beyond the gear tooth:*
After marking the chain, fully remove both the retainer nuts on one of the adjustment links (obviously the outer one is easiest). These are just easier to get to than the chain bolt itself. See below cable adjustment info for further info on this. Can then simply unbolt the gearbox from the bracket or the entire motor/gearbox/bracket assembly from the wall depending upon what you are replacing.
CABLE ADJUSTMENT:
So, this was confusing and frustrating
Its actually really simple once you understand how the cable system works. Will take my stab at explaining this.
The cables you see on the outer edges of the slideout when outside when the slideout is opened are the IN cables. There is obviously one at the top and bottom and left and right of the slideout. The gearbox pulls on these which are held into the back of the slide by metal brackets at the cable ends to pull the slide IN.
The cables you see on the outer edges of the slideout when inside when the slideout is closed are the OUT cables. There is obviously one at the top and bottom and left and right of the slideout. The gearbox pulls on these which are held into the front of the slide by metal brackets at the cable ends to pull the slide OUT.
The left and right pair of cables themselves are routed through pulleys in the wall but are then connected to a single chain. This chain is then connected to the gearbox/motor.
Between the cable and chain is an Adjustment Bracket. It is labeled to show which one is connected to the IN or OUT cables on each side. Each has two cables attached to it which show which one is the TOP or BOTTOM cable.
Since the TOP and BOTTOM legs are connected to the same chain the adjustment of one can affect the other. The point here is if say the Top is too tight it could prevent the Bottom from ever being able to fully slide in or out.
A key point to realize is that there is a lot of weight transfer occuring when the slide is moved in or out. This is easiest to visualize when moving the slide out. As the slide moves out the slideout wants to tip out from the top since all the weight is on the floor and it is only supported on the inner frame by the rollers/wear bar. The goal is to have the cables take on this weight when adjusted properly so it does not try to tip out as it slides out.
Before adjusting any of the cables make sure you understand that need to hold the cable side with vice grips or pliers to prevent the cables from twisting. Same goes for the chain if adjusting the chain bolt. The YouTube videos cover this well but it is critical.
Having an impact with a pivoting socket adapter helps greatly as these cables are often at angles that need to be corrected as you adjust them! You will need deep 3/8 and 7/16 sockets for this. Ratcheting end wrenches don't work very well as just not enough clearance to get the ratcheting end on. The You Tube video that was a bit hard to find that can help with adjustments a lot is titled "Cable adjustment under 7min s/o box"
The OUT position is the most critical as that is where all the weight is hanging outside the rig. So, the first step in adjusting the cables is to get it in its worse case situation by getting the slideout pushed all the way out until the cable brackets hit the wall plate. What normally occurs is the top will contact the wall first and it might then be very difficult on a large heavy slide to get the bottoms to make contact. Mine was flush at the tops but about 2in away on the bottom. Once it is out as far as it will go, loosen both the IN adjustment brackets on both side until they have a lot of slop in them and are essentially just sitting on top of the slideout. Do this on both sides so four cables total. This needs to be done so that the IN cables are not preventing the OUT cables from moving. This really is the key to the entire cable adjustment process along with jacking up the slide next!!! Use your jack to lift the slideout by putting one jack at each back side corner of the slide using a 3ft long 6x6 or similar to spread out the load. You want to use a corner as its supported the best. Being as close to the back of the slide will also help to pivot the slideout so that the bottom makes contact with the wall. Best to be on a smooth concrete floor for this and orientate your jack so that it will roll out if push on the slideout. Lift the slideout on both sides making sure not hitting anything. Double check as you jack it up that the IN cables you loosened have not become tight again and if so loosen them more. Can then try to manually push the bottom in on both side with two people. Pushing on them did not work for me even with the rollers. Next is to make sure the OUT TOP cables on either sides are not tight. If they are tight it can prevent the bottom from making contact with the wall. If they are tight loosen them and try to push the bottoms in again. This still did not work for me. Next just use your impact to tighten the OUT BOTTOM until the bottom makes contact with the wall. Once it makes contact might torque it a little bit bit more as these cables are going to be the tightest of any to hold the weight. The adjustment bracket will likely be at an angle so tighten the OUT TOP only when necessary or in this final step when the bottom is in all the way as again we don't want it to prevent the bottom from coming in. Can then go outside and remove the jacks. Check the inside again to ensure that the bottom brackets are still flush against the wall with weight of the slideout now mostly on them instead of the jacks. If they get pushed out a little that means it was not tight enough or was fighting one of the other cables so repeat the above last few steps. DOUBLE CHECK you removed your jacks and its clear of the slideout now as easy to forget before moving the slide with the motor.
Once the OUT brackets are tight, just need to tighten up the IN brackets and get the all brackets line up properly. The IN brackets are much easier and less critical than the OUT bracket (especially the OUT BOTTOM cables) in terms of how tight they need to be.
Snug up all the cables on the IN brackets. Again, these don't need to be overly tight but as long as can still pinch the two cables in the center area on an single adjustment bracket with your thumb and index finger to about 1/2in away from each other it is still ok. In general, this is very tight. The point is its ok to tighten the ones needed very tight, but other cables just need to be as tight as needed to get everything lined up properly properly.
Next, make sure all four brackets are straight and everything is lined up. First tighten either of the two cables on each bracket so that the bracket is perpendicular like shown on the OUT bracket picture above. You DONT WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE THIS ... BAD!!!*
This is why I mention in the paragraph above that might need a good amount of tightness to correct this . You would generally tighten the lower cable in the picture above to correct this. WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT LOOSEN THE OUT BOTTOM cables at this point or you will be starting all over again!!! I only needed to tighten cables at this point. Make sure the bracket is also not rotated front to back ... it needs to straight up and down. The connection off the bracket to the chain also needs to be straight so that the chain has no twist in it. You also need to tighten the center retaining nut on the chain connection. Get it snug to the bracket as best as possible, but its a tight fit. To torque it just hold it with another wrench and use the chain retaining nut on the other side of the bracket to ensure its locked down good. While doing all this the various components will twist/rotate again so need to correct everything again so vertical. Using two small allen wrenches or similar can help to turn the chain, etc. to accomplish this.
One complication in all the above adjustments is if you run out of adjustment thread. This could mean the chain was not put on the gearbox in same position or that perhaps was installed wrong to begin with (mine was). For example, each cable has about 2.5inches of adjustment thread on them. The Bal support rep said you just use as little or as much as you need. He even said if the cable portion ends up inside the adjustment bracket that that is still ok. I personally don't like that as I found one of the threaded ends snagged on the bracket and it thus bent it up a little as part of my initial problems. I was able to bend the bracket back after removing. I completely ran out of thread on one of the cables so I had to move the chain over one tooth on one side. One tooth makes a bigger difference then you would think. I then had plenty of thread for any future adjustments without taking everything apart again!
It is also worth mentioning that you can use either the cables or the chain adjustments to get everything tight. In other words, there is some adjustment on the end of the chain that might help get the cables adjustment ends in a good position. The point is both the cable and chain adjusters do the same thing but the chain adjustment is limited in that it effect both the cables it is attached to at the same time.
Final step is to make sure nothing fell under the slide, no tools left on top of the slide, jacks out of the way etc. and run the slide in and out to see how it looks. The adjustment brackets need to clear each other easily and not travel too close to the gearbox so watch closely. You will likely see the brackets get a slight angle on them at certain points as the weight transfers and might also get a little slack at times, but in general they should remain fairly in line with minimal slack if all were adjusted correctly. if there is slack when at fully in or fully out position something certainly needs adjusted. Run it in and out a few times to check for this always keeping in mind the fully out position is the most critical to tell you when have problems that need to be corrected.
Not really an expert here but feel I learned a lot and Bal support also helped me conclude much of the above, so confident in it as there is also some bad info out there from what I have seen or might only apply to other slide systems/slide types causing confusion.
Here is both sides of mine when all said and done and it slides in like butter. Can tell minimal stress on motor too. My motor amp draw went from 39a down to 2.4a !!!!!
I did notice that my two outer rollers instantly had some grooves on them. Not sure if this was from the couple times it was run in/out before fully adjusted but honestly I just think its from all the weight they have on them. Hoping just initial clearance wear but time will tell.
Linear Mode
