Tow vehicle transmission question

weebl · 10-11-2016, 06:34 PM

We have a tow vehicle in mind to buy before spring 2017, so that we can take our recently acquired fifth wheel on the road. We brought ours home with the help of a relative with a 3/4 ton, but we will obviously need our own truck long term.

This is a very theoretical question, that may well be moot. However, if we are swayed to something else where this is an option, I want to see if it is viable.

My wife and I are both perfectly capable of driving a manual transmission car, and in fact, our car has a manual. We had considered that for a truck (I know very few recent model years now have these), however in talking to one of my wife's uncles, he suggested we steer ourselves towards an automatic as the manual may be too hard to drive to be practical. Those who have driven both types of transmissions while towing, do you find this to be the case?

bsmith0404 · 10-11-2016, 07:00 PM

Not at all, especially if you go with a diesel. However, the only diesel that sells a manual transmission these days (as far as I know) is Dodge. The problem with the manual is that you get the lowest tuned power plant. Dodge actually has 3 different tunes for the Cummins based on transmission. The manual gets the lowest due to clutch issues, the standard auto gets a mid level tune and the Aisin option gets the high end because it's the only one capable of handling the power. With GM you only get the Allison which has been and still is the cream of the crop.

If you go with a gas truck, just forget everything I said

schmeg · 10-11-2016, 07:16 PM

I have a 2016 Ram 3500 Cummins with the 6 speed manual. I have towed 5500 miles with it this year already. There are times i really like having the manual and times I wish I had the auto. When navigating through tight areas and campgrounds, I wouldn't mind having an auto. Once out on the road, I really like having the stick. The exhaust brake on the Cummins works very well with the manual when going down big hills. The truck is very sure footed. I tow a 43' toy hauler and although the motor is derated, I never feel short on power. The one caveat is I do realize I probably will eventually have to upgrade the clutch to a dual disk. It is the weak link and is the real reason for the de-rate. If given a choice to do it all over again, I would opt for the Aisin trans and 4.10'sjust for those lazy days and to get the big tow numbers.

mtofell · 10-11-2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

The manual gets the lowest due to clutch issues,

This is the unfortunate reality in today's market of trucks and transmission options. You lose 140 lb/ft of torque for the "benefit" of shifting gears yourself.

Desert185 · 10-11-2016, 09:11 PM

Dodge is the only one left that sells a stick. If you're really serious about having a stick to play with, check the price differential between the stick and an Aisin and put the money (if the Aisin is a more expensive option) on a South Bend clutch and a tuner to recover the power to Aisin levels.

Some might say it would void the warranty, but how would they know you changed the clutch? More than likely any warranty issues wouldn't be with the clutch anyway, so you'd be good to go with whatever else might go wrong during the warranty period.

Smarty tuners can reset the computer back to stock without any telltale evidence left behind.

http://www.southbendclutch.com

weebl · 10-11-2016, 09:38 PM

We're definitely going diesel and also won't be a brand new truck, but one a few years old. I really do like the Allison autos in the GM as well as the Aisin in Dodge. I also know for GM and Ford, if we go older, then a manual may become available. Downside is, we need three shoulder belts in the back, and if we go too old, then the middle seat becomes a lap only on any of these trucks.

I'm not as familiar with which manual is in each of the trucks. The attraction to us would be, we do generally enjoy driving stick more and the truck can't be borrowed by my s-i-l (she's somehow managed to claim her parents' truck as hers and makes them work their camping schedule around hers). Of course, I can also see maneuvering in a campground as a pitfall of a manual.

This may end up being moot anyway, since our strongest preference so far is a 2007.5 or newer GM, which as far as I know, is automatic only, though we could be swayed to any of the others given a very good condition truck at the right price, and having a manual as an option opens up a lot more trucks.

bsmith0404 · 10-12-2016, 12:43 AM

GM has never offered a manual with the duramax, it has always been Allison only. The Aisin wasn't offered in Dodge until 2013 and is only in the 3500.

As for the SIL, when it comes to a truck that costs over $20k for a decent used one that is nearly 10 years old and around $70k new, that is an easy answer. I don't mind helping someone out, but until they start paying for it, they are not going to wear my truck out and I sure as heck ain't gonna plan my usage around them.

old timer · 10-12-2016, 03:52 AM

Here is the thing with a manual transmission. If you tow a lot than you will need a new clutch sooner or later. Now that's not a problem if you can do it yourself but expensive if you have a shop do it. With a automatic if you do the maintenance like change the fluid it will last a long time. A automatic is also easier to drive in traffic. As for getting a used truck boy that's a tough one. You have all your camping stuff in the 5er and the truck brakes down. I would not be comfortable getting a truck older than a couple years.

I did what you did. I purchased a 5th wheel before I had a truck. Had to rely on someone to tow it home for me. Then I went truck shopping. I ended up with a Ford with the 6.7 diesel F250 SRW. I went on a trip for 3 months and towed about 10,000 miles without a problem. Only problem with new trucks is the price. Wow are they getting expensive. it won't be long until they are $100,000.

kfxgreenie · 10-12-2016, 05:40 AM

The Allison trans will hold up if the truck is not tunned but the truck might drop the dirty max out.

https://www.facebook.com/RustyJonesC...MELINE&fref=nf

I get it things happen with every truck, every make someone will have problems. The RAM trucks owners that have the G56 most say they can barley feel the derate as the tranny lets you put the power where you want it. The truck still has torque management but not nearly as much. Further more the CC Rams are derated even though they have the AISIN to 325 hp and 750 tq, and they still make it up and down the mountains towing more than 15,000-20,000 lbs, granted they can get lower gears. The derate isn't all bad obviously RAM feels it will make the trucks more dependable for longer. Now I will say the following link below could get interesting. I have one of the Trucks, this will be its second I would say major recall. I'm not biased, just looking at all the sides.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fi...-idUSKCN12A2LD

If you want the cream of the crop, and I'm not a Chevy man. http://www.brenengen.com/auto/used-2...6-wi/13196717/

msp2jxr · 10-12-2016, 07:50 AM

Any more I don't see the real advantage to a stick in a truck. The milage is the same or better and the new automatics are tuned to know what is best for the engine so you are always in a good gear when pulling. I also believe the auto is smoother pulling and less stress on the whole set up. Just my thoughts...

Desert185 · 10-12-2016, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msp2jxr

Any more I don't see the real advantage to a stick in a truck. The milage is the same or better and the new automatics are tuned to know what is best for the engine so you are always in a good gear when pulling. I also believe the auto is smoother pulling and less stress on the whole set up. Just my thoughts...

Depends on how you drive and use the tach, but no doubt an auto is easier.

weebl · 10-12-2016, 08:33 AM

Excellent points to consider on both transmission options, and on the age of the truck. This will definitely help guide us.

The S-I-L is another issue. Regardless of the transmission, I won't be letting her borrow it as though it were her truck. Definitely irks my wife and I that she does this, but then she's always done this with many things. It is just the way she is. I'm all for helping others out, but she has crossed that line with her parents' truck.

KYFamily · 10-12-2016, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

GM has never offered a manual with the duramax, it has always been Allison only. The Aisin wasn't offered in Dodge until 2013 and is only in the 3500.

As for the SIL, when it comes to a truck that costs over $20k for a decent used one that is nearly 10 years old and around $70k new, that is an easy answer. I don't mind helping someone out, but until they start paying for it, they are not going to wear my truck out and I sure as heck ain't gonna plan my usage around them.

That statement is not correct. GM offered a six speed manual from 01-07 in the duramax.

roadglide · 10-12-2016, 08:40 AM

I looked for months for clean low milage duramax. My son sugested car gurus web site . I drove 1000 miles to Fort Worth tx. For my 2013 with 40 k miles. Chevy and dodge are very good, Chevy redesign there engines it's called the LML . If you can stay above 11 for Chevy. I be leave 14 dodge made there improvement.

bsmith0404 · 10-12-2016, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYFamily

That statement is not correct. GM offered a six speed manual from 01-07 in the duramax.

I stand corrected. If you wanted a used dmax with manual transmission, good luck finding one (I've never actually seen one). Very few people opted for the manual over the Allison which made the manual a disposable item when they needed to certify the new LMM for emissions. Plus, as already mentioned, the autos are easier to tune and comply with emissions.

Ken / Claudia · 10-13-2016, 10:49 AM

My opinion is looking back at age 60 many things that vehicles were once best at has changed. This topic the tranny. Once upon a time you never wanted a auto tranny towing heavy trailers. Auto transmissions had a shorter life than manuals and other reasons manuals were better. That has changed. Get a auto in any of the current HD trucks even as far back as 10 to maybe 15 years.

Hansel · 10-14-2016, 10:01 AM

Here is another thing that I don't think anyone touched on, the newer automatic transmission's have a "tow mode" which I believe gives you the ability too shift gears yourself, kinda like a stick shift. So you get the best of both worlds with today's modern transmission's.

Outback 325BH · 10-14-2016, 12:44 PM

Although my age and upbringing will always "love" manual transmissions, today's modern automatic transmissions are so advanced, they are all I will buy. Between the smart tow mode (not simply an OD lock-out) and the manual controls, these new automatics are the chit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

denverpilot · 10-14-2016, 10:21 PM

I have a 2001 Dodge 3500 DRW that's both a lot less power even with mods than the modern trucks and is also a stick. And it's a 4.10. I love it in the mountains with the add on Cummins approved Jacobs exhaust brake. Control in the hills is superb.

But I wouldn't bother special ordering the only stick shift left in the HD pickup truck market from Dodge if we were buying new today. The modem autos work very well.

I'm also on the original clutch and the truck is second owner. Both the previous owner and I (I know him) know how to shift properly.

Barbell · 10-23-2016, 09:14 AM

Having towed extensively with both a manual and an automatic, I have to say I much prefer the automatic. However, I also have to say that the manual was in a 2001 CTD 2500 with a Banks exhaust brake that I drove for almost 200,000 miles and the auto is in a 2016 CTD 3500 that has about 16,000 miles towing on it. The new truck is much easier to control, especially downhill. The tow/haul mode on most if not all newer trucks shifts the transmission down with little input from the driver. With the integrated exhaust brake, there is never a white knuckle moment going down a grade. Go down Slumgullion Pass in Colorado if you want to test that theory. While I liked the manual 6-speed in the old truck, I really like the Aisan in the new one and can't imagine not ordering an auto in a new truck.

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