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Old 05-31-2017, 08:04 AM   #21
flybouy
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Originally Posted by busterbrown View Post

It's about time people stand up to the 1/2 tonners who are within specs. I've been following this tread to see how much "inappropriate policing" the OP would receive. His numbers are all legal. A quality sway control hitch will help mitigate trailer movement. Don't expect the friction bars to compete with a 4pt Equalizer. And if he really wants to ELIMINATE sway, the Hensley's and Propide's will be his ticket. As stated, not everyone needs a 1 ton Cummins to move an ultralite trailer. These modern day 1/2 tons properly equipped can be just as effective and a lot more comfortable.
Just my experience FWIW....
351/2 ft trailer, first towed with a Ford f150 King Ranch. The 20" Pirelli tires at 35 PSI was certainly a disadvantage. Reese straight line WD with sway control. The truck pulled well with the 5.4 gasser and stopped well but windy days, passing large trucks/busses was a white knuckle experience. I wasn't about to throw out 4 new Pirelli tires to experiment with better handling in mind.
Move forward to current TV Ford F250 super cab long bed with 6.4 diesel (18" rims with Michelin X2's @ 75 psi.) Same hitch set up. Towing went from white knuckle to a confident, controlled experience. I can honestly say the only regret in moving to the diesel is the ride. I will trade the ride for the control difference any day. This combo has been over some gnarly roads in the Allegheny mtns in WVA 10% + grades, single lane no shoulder, over the Smokies, down interstates with semi's blowing by @ 80 mph (I typically stay at 63 mph where the rig "feels happy" and fuel milage is best) and have yet to have a "White Knuckle" drive.
I think the weight ratings are a good max limit but should it be a goal to reach? I don't think so. In my opinion there should be something left in reserve and I understand the argument for :But the mfg allows for overweight conditions in their calculations. That may be true but should we use that max number as our available weight capacity? I drink coffee out of a 20 oz mug but I do not fill it to the rim so I fill it to about 18 oz. so that I can control the mug and reduce the probability of having an accident and spilling hot coffee. To me, this logic transfers to the towing situation. I apologize for lengthy reply, but I have read this same type of post over and over where the OP wants assurance that their decision is O.K. which begs the question that if you are concerned and seeking assurance then maybe you already have your answer.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:16 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Just my experience FWIW....
351/2 ft trailer, first towed with a Ford f150 King Ranch. The 20" Pirelli tires at 35 PSI was certainly a disadvantage. Reese straight line WD with sway control. The truck pulled well with the 5.4 gasser and stopped well but windy days, passing large trucks/busses was a white knuckle experience. I wasn't about to throw out 4 new Pirelli tires to experiment with better handling in mind.
Move forward to current TV Ford F250 super cab long bed with 6.4 diesel (18" rims with Michelin X2's @ 75 psi.) Same hitch set up. Towing went from white knuckle to a confident, controlled experience. I can honestly say the only regret in moving to the diesel is the ride. I will trade the ride for the control difference any day. This combo has been over some gnarly roads in the Allegheny mtns in WVA 10% + grades, single lane no shoulder, over the Smokies, down interstates with semi's blowing by @ 80 mph (I typically stay at 63 mph where the rig "feels happy" and fuel milage is best) and have yet to have a "White Knuckle" drive.
I think the weight ratings are a good max limit but should it be a goal to reach? I don't think so. In my opinion there should be something left in reserve and I understand the argument for :But the mfg allows for overweight conditions in their calculations. That may be true but should we use that max number as our available weight capacity? I drink coffee out of a 20 oz mug but I do not fill it to the rim so I fill it to about 18 oz. so that I can control the mug and reduce the probability of having an accident and spilling hot coffee. To me, this logic transfers to the towing situation. I apologize for lengthy reply, but I have read this same type of post over and over where the OP wants assurance that their decision is O.K. which begs the question that if you are concerned and seeking assurance then maybe you already have your answer.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The majority of those with setups like the OP has aren't on these boards looking for advice nor are they promoting advice, there out there driving their rigs and camping. There are only a handful of us on here debating the age old question, "is that truck big enough". So getting perspective will never fall in the middle of the bell curve. You'll have both sides of the peremptory spectrum to hear from. Some that drove trucks for "50 years" 50 years ago and swear that anything larger than a popup is grounds for diesel 1 ton pulling power. And you'll have others who confirm that a Toyota RAV4 can safely move a trailer double its weight.

When it's all said and done and the rig is properly equipped (hitch, tires, etc) and within all the payload, GVW's, GAWR's, etc manufacturer specifications, there is no reason to ridicule and shame opinions given to the person asking. Good forum etiquette shows respect to everyone currently involved in the dialog and those who will read these posts months/years later.

My personal experience with a 1/2 ton vehicle is this. My 400 HP Yukon XL Denali towed my 35 foot, 7000 lb trailer okay with a traditional mid-grade quality Blue Ox hitch. I went to the scales once and it was within specs. Payload was approaching capacity but it was still within specs. White knuckles came after I towed in a windstorm on the way home from a camping trip last year. I knew I needed a change. Either a new truck or a new hitch.

Then, I discovered the Hensley hitch. That was my saving grace. Unless you experience a Hensley in action, you won't realize the it eliminates ALL lateral movement of your trailer due to cross winds, semi's, downgrades, you name it. My 2500 mile trip to Florida over interstate mountain passes in Kentucky, Tennessee and Georgia was smooth as butter. The engine brake worked, the TV brakes worked, the Hensley worked, everything just worked beautifully. My wife drove the same return route for 5 hours in the mountains with one hand on the wheel and absolutely no steering or braking correction needed. The trailer and truck acted as one. With the Blue Ox, you couldn't even convince her to drive 1 mile.

Hensley's are heavy unfortunately. And my Denali was sitting on the edge of her payload capacity with it (Approx 1550). That as well as its aging powerplant with nearly 100k miles on the clock made me look at another used 3/4 ton (but newer 2013) Suburban/Yukon replacement. Low to mid 40 G's for these 4 year old trucks (the last year they were made). No way was I paying that for a previous generation platform.

So then we looked at new max payload trailering pkg F150's with the ecoboost. With the options I wanted, they priced well in to the high 50's/low 60's. So, I came across a new (demo) 2017 RAM 2500 Laramie megacab I currently own. We bought it, love the tech and gadgetry, but hate the ride when empty. The ride in the F150's was much more tame and refined. But I saved nearly 14K and got more payload. So I chose the RAM.

Now we had a chance to hook up both the Blue OX and Hensley to this new 2500 RAM. With the Blue Ox, I still have steering corrections to be made and find myself looking behind me for the next passing semi. This past memorial day, I switched it out for the Hensley. Except for the rougher ride, the trailer sway was gone and so were the minor steering corrections.

So my conclusion is this. It wasn't the truck that eliminated the sway. It was the hitch. Grant it, the 3/4 ton truck gives us the payload to take more things with us and not have to worry about the weight of passengers and cargo in the truck. But the ride was definitely rougher on the little ones and we lost our 3 row. Obviously a tradeoff we have to accept.

To the OP. Invest in a premium hitch if you have payload. You'll thank yourself sooner than later.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:50 AM   #23
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http://fifthwheelst.com/

Lots of other apps out there to do this yourself, be sure your within ALL suggested weight limits.

Check yourself, if your happy and safe, I'm happy... I play'd the odds once when I was young and foolish, wet road, heavy boat (probably even heavier with the rain in it) heavy traffic, almost cost me a truck and a boat and possibly a hospital trip.. just sayin

If this is already been posted I apologize.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:51 AM   #24
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We must all know that every truck has it's limits. What I not do hear is when someone compares a 1/2 to a HD truck. The HD truck is coming from the factory made to tow. Without going thru everyone of the spec. sheets. They normally have better cooling for engine and transmission, power steering at least on my ford. Better engines and transmissions, rear ends and axles. Springs and shocks. Brakes, Frames, etc. They will or should not be wore out from towing in the 100,000 mile mark. Unless they are pushed to their limits. They cost more but, as Javi said, put 10,000 into a 1/2 ton or invest that into a HD to start with with a truck ready. My cheap Pro tow hitch set up is more than I need but, use the anti sway bar and springs bars because they should be used. Mainly in case of that emergency lane change or a hard side wind. I will not put anyone down for towing with any tow vehicle as long as they tow within specs. of that truck and combo.
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:55 PM   #25
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You are close to your limits. As long as you can stay where you are it appears you will stay within your legal limits. Having towed a 2810 with a 1/2 ton setup with similar margin my experience leads me to say you may have some moments that approach whit knuckle. Drive, travel and arrive safely. Have fun.


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Old 05-31-2017, 07:30 PM   #26
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I have watched this post since its inception. I said the OP was probably going to be OK given the numbers. Also tried to point out how close they were.

Others, like me, pointed out that they have been in the same position and trying to tow at max, or close, is not fun nor safe.

That said, the OP is within weight specs....marginally. What do you do if you are there? Go ahead and tow and hope for the best? Just say "wow! I'm close to being overloaded.....let's buy a new 60k truck?

I've been called the WP in the past (I think) because I believe 100% that you need to tow within your limits....with a safety margin. I think anyone buying a trailer needs to know/understand weights, unfortunately they don't at times.

So, what to do? In this case the OP is within margins. So, he's OK....by a hair. Would I tow like that? No. Have I? Yes. Did I buy a new truck after one trip? Yes. Folks come on the forum and ask for "good" advice; advice that will keep them and their family safe.

Telling a person that is overweight, or at the margin, that everything is OK if you buy a prohibitively expensive hitch isn't the answer. A bad combo is a bad combo. Not saying that in this instance, but, trying to cover up the problem isn't the answer. Trying to tell everyone that a 1 ton dually is the answer isn't spot on either; it will cure all the problems but not the answer for everyone.

Folks come on the forum from all walks of life and from every level of RV experience. I totally endorse buying a bigger truck if you don't have a significant safety margin. That is after I had to go to a HD truck from a 1/2 ton. That was due to us deciding to buy an RV, which was never in the picture. When we did, I knew that our preferences would end up with a bigger, heavier trailer. We bought hoping the 1/2 ton would work. It didn't and we bought a new truck immediately.

Thoughts; some folks have great intentions and have a truck. They have no idea what the truck can or cannot do; they let the dealership tell them that...and then we know how that goes. Some don't care. They have a 1/2 ton, or 3/4 ton and just buy the RV they like and take off....we all get to see plenty of those - weight was not a consideration.

Back to the OP and the comments;

OP is within specs as we know. Marginally, yes. Some espouse a bigger truck, understandably. Some say they're OK (they are-marginally) and if they only spend 2k on a hitch their towing experience, danger level etc. is then eliminated....it's not. The physics of the physical length, weight, frontal area etc. in relation to a tow vehicles configuration doesn't disappear due to a hitch/sway control. That's just a fact.

Bottom line; some come on the forum looking for affirmation that their out of weight combo is OK. Some come on with no idea and are looking for input on a prospective purchase. Some come on with other questions pertaining to truck/trailer weights etc.

To me, it is incumbent on every experienced towing person to help, and warn, new folks that have asked for advice. If they are marginal tell them. It they are overweight tell them. Advise what can be done to help correct the problem. Is a bigger truck the answer to every problem for everyone? No. Is that the answer if everyone wanted to jump out and spend 60k? Maybe.

I'm on the forum a lot. I see folks pulling things that I wouldn't dream of with the combos they have. When my "combo" was out of line, IMO, I just bought a new truck. That wasn't a problem. For some it is. If someone had made a misjudgement in the truck/trailer they purchased, it may a big step to just run down and buy a new truck/trailer/. Long story short is that all of us have a unique situation; financial position; family position etc. We just have to do the best we can, as owners looking for answers, and those trying to help, to try to understand all the intricacies involved in the given situation.
Just my thoughts before bedtime....and loading to go to CO for a month!!
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:56 PM   #27
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I have watched this post since its inception. I said the OP was probably going to be OK given the numbers. Also tried to point out how close they were.



Others, like me, pointed out that they have been in the same position and trying to tow at max, or close, is not fun nor safe.



That said, the OP is within weight specs....marginally. What do you do if you are there? Go ahead and tow and hope for the best? Just say "wow! I'm close to being overloaded.....let's buy a new 60k truck?



I've been called the WP in the past (I think) because I believe 100% that you need to tow within your limits....with a safety margin. I think anyone buying a trailer needs to know/understand weights, unfortunately they don't at times.



So, what to do? In this case the OP is within margins. So, he's OK....by a hair. Would I tow like that? No. Have I? Yes. Did I buy a new truck after one trip? Yes. Folks come on the forum and ask for "good" advice; advice that will keep them and their family safe.



Telling a person that is overweight, or at the margin, that everything is OK if you buy a prohibitively expensive hitch isn't the answer. A bad combo is a bad combo. Not saying that in this instance, but, trying to cover up the problem isn't the answer. Trying to tell everyone that a 1 ton dually is the answer isn't spot on either; it will cure all the problems but not the answer for everyone.



Folks come on the forum from all walks of life and from every level of RV experience. I totally endorse buying a bigger truck if you don't have a significant safety margin. That is after I had to go to a HD truck from a 1/2 ton. That was due to us deciding to buy an RV, which was never in the picture. When we did, I knew that our preferences would end up with a bigger, heavier trailer. We bought hoping the 1/2 ton would work. It didn't and we bought a new truck immediately.



Thoughts; some folks have great intentions and have a truck. They have no idea what the truck can or cannot do; they let the dealership tell them that...and then we know how that goes. Some don't care. They have a 1/2 ton, or 3/4 ton and just buy the RV they like and take off....we all get to see plenty of those - weight was not a consideration.



Back to the OP and the comments;



OP is within specs as we know. Marginally, yes. Some espouse a bigger truck, understandably. Some say they're OK (they are-marginally) and if they only spend 2k on a hitch their towing experience, danger level etc. is then eliminated....it's not. The physics of the physical length, weight, frontal area etc. in relation to a tow vehicles configuration doesn't disappear due to a hitch/sway control. That's just a fact.



Bottom line; some come on the forum looking for affirmation that their out of weight combo is OK. Some come on with no idea and are looking for input on a prospective purchase. Some come on with other questions pertaining to truck/trailer weights etc.



To me, it is incumbent on every experienced towing person to help, and warn, new folks that have asked for advice. If they are marginal tell them. It they are overweight tell them. Advise what can be done to help correct the problem. Is a bigger truck the answer to every problem for everyone? No. Is that the answer if everyone wanted to jump out and spend 60k? Maybe.



I'm on the forum a lot. I see folks pulling things that I wouldn't dream of with the combos they have. When my "combo" was out of line, IMO, I just bought a new truck. That wasn't a problem. For some it is. If someone had made a misjudgement in the truck/trailer they purchased, it may a big step to just run down and buy a new truck/trailer/. Long story short is that all of us have a unique situation; financial position; family position etc. We just have to do the best we can, as owners looking for answers, and those trying to help, to try to understand all the intricacies involved in the given situation.

Just my thoughts before bedtime....and loading to go to CO for a month!!


Well said. I too have watched this thread from the start. I have done walk through's knowing they are leaving on the edge. Some ask up front and I will answer truthfully, even been in trouble with mgmt. for giving information asked for. I too have been labeled part of the "WP", but in the end we all drive the same roads.
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Old 06-01-2017, 03:27 AM   #28
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I also have watched this from the beginning. Truthfully, to those of you who read the posts on a regular basis, aren't these discussions considerably more interesting than the "I have a soft spot in the floor" questions? Overall the threads that are a little controversial are always more interesting to follow. I agree that the usual mundane subjects are the meat and potatoes of this site. It is after all what brings most of us here to begin with. I seem to remember that I came here looking for a recommendation on an RV park. Sometimes these arguments have an answer that is cut and dried. That rascal CWtheman can throw a wet blanket on a good tire argument in a flash. The weight and towing discussions are of the most heated AND interesting on the board. I think we could all agree that the vast majority of truck owners out there have not the faintest idea what a yellow sticker even IS! How many average truck owners know what the payload means?
In the end some come here for advice AFTER the purchase and on occasion some come here BEFORE the purchase. I don't see being a sometimes member of the weight police as a bad thing. I also don't see towing a 35 foot trailer with a half ton as a good thing, even if it falls in the weight envelope.
But let's keep those arguments coming.....beats the six o'clock news!
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Old 06-01-2017, 03:46 AM   #29
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I'm an "in spec" guy too, but I don't like being just barely...in spec. As a result of two trips out this year, both of which made me uneasy...I have now put my truck up for sale and as soon as it sell will be buying a Crew Cab Dually. Some might say that it's overkill for a 34 1/2' bumper pull T.H. that has a max GVWR of 13K, but I'm sure that the added stability and peace of mind will more than satisfy my feelings of uneasiness. So, that's an update with where I'm headed.
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Old 06-01-2017, 04:18 AM   #30
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I like a bit of margin with my TV. Found pulling close was not fun especially as 1st stop seems always 6 hours away. Half the time into the hills of NC or TN. When spending $2k+ on a hitch, air shocks, stabilizer bars, and more to make any size truck more than it is does not make sense to me. Tow what you want with what you want. Just remember **** happens and when it does you will want all the truck possible to keep your family safe. Don't forget there are others on the road to and just making spec may not be enough.


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Old 06-01-2017, 07:29 AM   #31
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I understand (sometimes) the WP knocking folks who are overweight, but to keep up with the snarky remarks and bigger truck recommendations when a guy is clearly within spec is just being a *ick.

The guy is in spec... which used to be what the WP was trying to preach. Now being within spec is not good enough? I don't get you guys sometimes.


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I'm actually on the OP's side on this. He's in spec, so go for it. I was making more fun of the WP comments with "Manslaughter Motors".

This is entertaining stuff for me.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:33 AM   #32
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I'm actually on the OP's side on this. He's in spec, so go for it. I was making more fun of the WP comments with "Manslaughter Motors".



This is entertaining stuff for me.


We are in agreement. Not sure if my post was confusing or not.


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Old 06-02-2017, 11:47 AM   #33
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WOW!!! I haven't been here for a few days! They are some great responses here! Some good some bad! So the out come is that I am in the 20 percent of the weight capacity of my truck. The only set back is the length of 28 feet of surface that the wind can blow me over or push me around. The question is what does Ford Motor Company say "what is the longest trailer that a F150 can Pull"? I have not found that answer yet! But lucky for me I am a Employee for Ford. I work down here in Chicago at the Assembly plant for the Explorer . I am going to try to email the engineering dept for the F150 and try to get some answers. Also I know that they were some comments about my Weight distribution Hitch. Well I did the deep dive and went with the Pro p3 Hensley Hitch. Mr Sean Woodruff is a pretty cool guy and very informative. If this setup doesn't work well Ill just bite the bullet and buy a F350 diesel.
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:12 AM   #34
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Well I did the deep dive and went with the Pro p3 Hensley Hitch. Mr Sean Woodruff is a pretty cool guy and very informative. If this setup doesn't work well Ill just bite the bullet and buy a F350 diesel.
Congrats on your new hitch and the safety it will bring you and your family.
Guaranteed it'll work for you. Both companies are very helpful and are in general competition for your business. It all started with Hensley. I read that there was a fallout with the lead engineer/ownership years ago. Then Propride was founded. The P3 was redesigned due to patents, but essentially it's the same fundamental mechanics.

I, fortunately, live about 15 miles from the Hensley assembly shop in Michigan and have visited it twice now. Last week most recently as I needed to change out the hitch bar to a longer length to accommodate my new RAM 2500. With Propride, the hitch bar is adjustable. So when you change vehicles, you don't need to swap out hitch bars. That's a nice feature of Propride.

There are only a few of us that use these premium hitches on here so you won't get a lot of feedback. But after your current rig is setup and you're pulling it for awhile, you'll never go back to a traditional sway reduction design (friction or spring bar). I use my Blue Ox Sway Pro for 1 trip with my new RAM several weeks ago and I could still feel it. When trailers reach 30 feet or longer, you really need a sway elimination hitch. It already save my rig in Florida when I came across a road side hazard at 65 MPH on the Florida Turnpike. With out the Hensley, the sway would have been catastrophically uncontrollable.

Let us know how the new P3 works out for you. Driving like your towing a 5th wheel in crosswinds is the what these hitches are all about.
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Old 06-03-2017, 09:28 AM   #35
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I had a very similar setup like yours for years and had many white knuckle moments, especially in inclement weather. Your in spec but... these specs are for good weather, roads, etc. You also may experience more sway, it' harder on your truck (eventually killed my Titan), it's harder on the driver, and you get really bad gas mileage. In bad weather it's compounded and you will not recover as easy in an emergency situation like swaying, blowout, braking, evasive actions, etc. It's pretty easy to exceed any of your current upper limits out on the road (think souvenirs, gifts, rocks, firewood, snowfall, etc. And God forbid, If your in an accident the insurance company will investigate your weights. Knowing your towing limits is a good thing but knowing your driving limits (the human factor) is good too. Moving to a bigger truck, for me, was like night and day. With way more control and capacities, a bigger truck, with the same WDH and sway bar, felt 100% safer.
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Old 06-03-2017, 12:12 PM   #36
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WOW!!! I haven't been here for a few days! They are some great responses here! Some good some bad! So the out come is that I am in the 20 percent of the weight capacity of my truck. The only set back is the length of 28 feet of surface that the wind can blow me over or push me around. The question is what does Ford Motor Company say "what is the longest trailer that a F150 can Pull"? I have not found that answer yet! But lucky for me I am a Employee for Ford. I work down here in Chicago at the Assembly plant for the Explorer . I am going to try to email the engineering dept for the F150 and try to get some answers. Also I know that they were some comments about my Weight distribution Hitch. Well I did the deep dive and went with the Pro p3 Hensley Hitch. Mr Sean Woodruff is a pretty cool guy and very informative. If this setup doesn't work well Ill just bite the bullet and buy a F350 diesel.


The Propride was a good move on your part being so close to your limits.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the ProPride hitch. I am in my 4th season with one. Originally with a F150 and now a F250.


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2018 Jayco Eagle HT 265BHS (previous: 2015 23RB Passport Elite, ProPride)
2015 F250 XLT SB Crew, 6.2l gas
PullRite 16K SuperGlide w/SuperRail
Reese 5th Airborne (bagged) Pin Box
RoadMaster Shock Kit
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Old 06-03-2017, 04:54 PM   #37
hexmex357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow View Post
The Propride was a good move on your part being so close to your limits.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the ProPride hitch. I am in my 4th season with one. Originally with a F150 and now a F250.


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Thanks Slow and BusterBrown!I will PM you if I have any questions. The only thing I cannot find is a Installation video. If anyone nows where to find a vid it would be great!
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Old 06-25-2017, 08:39 AM   #38
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Well just got back from our maiden voyage from the Smokey Mountains. Had a great time with family! I would like to say that yes the 2810Bh trailer is to much for my F150 even with all the mods that I did. I wouldn't call the pro pride a waste its worth every penny I spent. It saved my bacon on this trip. The first day of driving there was a accident in front of us, young kid driving and instead of getting out of the way he gets out of the car and causes everyone to hit on the brakes. I slammed on the brakes luckily I was able to pull over to the side of the road. Thank God no one was hurt. On the way back home to Chicago we hit some pretty bad storms and winds. That is when I felt that sometimes I did not have full control of the trailer. Especially when the semi's were whipping by 75 miles an hour or more. On sunny days with no wind I would be able to pull just fine. But events like storms, semi-trailers and winds the F150 is no match for the 2810BH. I am going to just bite the bullet and upgrade to a F250 or even a F350 which ever one I could fine cheaper. My Family safety does comes first. Thanks everyone for your input!
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:21 AM   #39
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hexmex357,

Thanks for your "after trip report", and glad that you made it back home safely. Once you get your new tow vehicle and have an opportunity to "contrast/compare" please let us know the "good/bad/ugly" about the switch to a bigger tow vehicle.
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:51 AM   #40
slow
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Keep the Propride for the F250 or F350. Towing will be a pleasure.


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2018 Jayco Eagle HT 265BHS (previous: 2015 23RB Passport Elite, ProPride)
2015 F250 XLT SB Crew, 6.2l gas
PullRite 16K SuperGlide w/SuperRail
Reese 5th Airborne (bagged) Pin Box
RoadMaster Shock Kit
X-Factor Cross Bracing
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