Pay Load vs Towing Capacity

[Ribtip]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I disagree. We've had some people tell someone that it's OK to tow over gvw, over payload, and over gawr. That's wrong no matter "how you look atnit".

I should of been more clear. No one is wrong looking up their payload # for their truck by looking online at the manu website or looking it up on their door jam. Same # thats all i was saying.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

I should of been more clear. No one is wrong looking up their payload # for their truck by looking online at the manu website or looking it up on their door jam. Same # thats all i was saying.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying for the slow folks like me!

[rhagfo]

Nellie1289 is in a situation we seldom see with 4,200# of payload, he could likely get a 20,000# triple axle TH, that at 17% pin would be 3,400# pin within payload, BUT he would be exceeding his 17,000# tow rating.
This is a drive train issue, yes diesel, but a tall rear end. If he gets that setup his transmission may be the weak link.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

I should of been more clear. No one is wrong looking up their payload # for their truck by looking online at the manu website or looking it up on their door jam. Same # thats all i was saying.

The problem is that as long as your looking apples to apples. The F150 on their website may or may not be equipped exactly as yours sitting in the driveway.
I know for a fact that looking at weights, dry or cargo, for RVs online there can be several hundred pounds different than what's actually on a particular rv.
Dry rv weights & tow vehicle max tow weight on trucks mean ABSOLUTELY nothing to the rv owner trying to correctly pair the two.

[Ribtip]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

The problem is that as long as your looking apples to apples. The F150 on their website may or may not be equipped exactly as yours sitting in the driveway.
I know for a fact that looking at weights, dry or cargo, for RVs online there can be several hundred pounds different than what's actually on a particular rv.
Dry rv weights & tow vehicle max tow weight on trucks mean ABSOLUTELY nothing to the rv owner trying to correctly pair the two.

Not when you run your vin. Not sure if ford has that on their website. But i do agree with you. You just gotta weigh stuff.so my next question is if you had a way to scale your landing gear would that be an accurate reading. If so the rv dealers should have such a set up.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

Not when you run your vin. Not sure if ford has that on their website. But i do agree with you. You just gotta weigh stuff.so my next question is if you had a way to scale your landing gear would that be an accurate reading. If so the rv dealers should have such a set up.

The "short answer" is NO.... The landing gear is usually 6-8 feet behind the kingpin on fifth wheel trailers. Depending on the type of pinbox, that distance could even be greater. When you consider 8' is roughly 1/3 the distance from the kingpin to the centerline of the axles on "shorter fifth wheels" and 1/5-1/4 the distance on "longer fifth wheels", that weight could be "offset by the location of the landing gear by anywhere from 20% to as much as 33%. Weighing the landing gear might "come close" but it won't be accurate...

PLUS: if you're doing it at a dealership to get an idea of pin weight while shopping for a trailer, it's going to be "an empty weight" which is nowhere even close to what anyone will see when loaded for a camping trip.

Sort of like measuring your wallet when it's empty to see if it will fit in your back pocket, then putting all the cards, ID's, pictures of DW and those membership cards in it... What used to fit will "grow significantly thicker" with in "real use"... Same with any trailer if weighed empty and then loaded for "real use".....

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

Not when you run your vin. Not sure if ford has that on their website. But i do agree with you. You just gotta weigh stuff.so my next question is if you had a way to scale your landing gear would that be an accurate reading. If so the rv dealers should have such a set up.

I agree with John, weighing the landing gear will not give accurate pin weight. It is also a dry weight.
Average pin weight is about 22% of GVW of the 5er, best way to estimate is to take 25% of GVWR, that gives you some wiggle room.
You also need to scale the TV ready to tow, then subtract that from the GVWR to come up with the available payload remaining.

[notanlines]

To mirror what has just been said, weighing at the landing gear without the use of algebra, trigonometry, 2 quadratic equations and a wooden yard stick won’t work. Sorry.

[Ribtip]

Yea i get it. It would just be nice to get even an accurate dry weight to start. Like in my case i have a washer/ dryer not sure if thats included in the manu's stated dry weight. Its got to add something up there. Would be nice if they had some kind of scale at the dealers. Just for a good starting point.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

Yea i get it. It would just be nice to get even an accurate dry weight to start. Like in my case i have a washer/ dryer not sure if thats included in the manu's stated dry weight. Its got to add something up there. Would be nice if they had some kind of scale at the dealers. Just for a good starting point.

That would depend on.. if you had it installed at the dealer or in came from the factory with it in the trailer.. This is why dry weight is subjective at best.

I don't do it either, but probably the best thing to do is weight the trailer on the way home from the dealer.. Just to get a starting point.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

Yea i get it. It would just be nice to get even an accurate dry weight to start. Like in my case i have a washer/ dryer not sure if thats included in the manu's stated dry weight. Its got to add something up there. Would be nice if they had some kind of scale at the dealers. Just for a good starting point.

I use a SherLine tounge scale on our travel trailer. You can also use it on the pin of a fiver but it would take a lot of stable cribbing to get it up to the hight. Much easier to just take it to a Cat Scale or whatever scale you can find around you and weigh the rig hitched then again unhitched.

[Northofu1]

Weighing your truck ready to camp, then weighing with 5er alone to at least get an overall weight, then weighing hitched is about as accurate as your going to get without fabricating a device capable of holding your pin. Subtract the axle weights of the overall weigh from the truck only weigh is as good as it gets. Every time you load up for a trip there will be small differences.
Weigh as often, at the beginning and throughout, as it takes to get base weights and where you stand.

[Ribtip]

I agree with all of the above. I was just thinking the before purchase weight so someone dosen't get any surprise from what the dealer tells them. But then again thats probably why they dont have something like that so they can tell us our trucks can pull anything.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

I agree with all of the above. I was just thinking the before purchase weight so someone dosen't get any surprise from what the dealer tells them. But then again thats probably why they dont have something like that so they can tell us our trucks can pull anything.

That's why everyone that's been thru this experience will tell you to ignore the empty weight. Best to use the gross trailer weight and take the 20% of that for the pin weight. You will be much closer to reality as has been discussed.

[Ribtip]

Yep agree. Thanks guys

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

I agree with all of the above. I was just thinking the before purchase weight so someone dosen't get any surprise from what the dealer tells them. But then again thats probably why they dont have something like that so they can tell us our trucks can pull anything.

Ribtop, what are you looking to do?
Your profile states you have a 327RES, about 12,000# GVWR and 1,999 payload. So are looking at a different 5er, or is your dry weight question just that and wounding how accurate dry weights and pin weights are.
Dry weight only matters if you have a low payload and the dry weight is understated.

[Ribtip]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Ribtop, what are you looking to do?
Your profile states you have a 327RES, about 12,000# GVWR and 1,999 payload. So are looking at a different 5er, or is your dry weight question just that and wounding how accurate dry weights and pin weights are.
Dry weight only matters if you have a low payload and the dry weight is understated.

No just wondering why we cant get trailers weighed before purchase. My payload is actually 2950

[Ribtip]

If tour buying used it would be nice.. like in my case i never thought about adding weight for the washer/dryer and things like that. Not a deal breaker but i didnt add for that. We do like the 327res perfect for me and the dw. We r looking at different trucks just not this year.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

If tour buying used it would be nice

$50K - $60K installed 70 foot x 10 foot..

[notanlines]

Marshall, I'm afraid you are mistaken. I've included a photo as an example of simple rigging to make weighing the pin less problematic, all using common garage tools and equipment.