Keystone assessment after Alaska trip

Halibutman214 · 08-17-2012, 05:36 PM

After completing my 6774 miles Alaska trip I thought I would weigh in on my Passport and how it came through. If you read my other post the tires didn't come through but I will not talk about that here.
My single biggest complaint: Keystone CEO, if your reading this you should get the person that made the decision not to pipe the cooktop overhead vent to the outside and have him bend over while everyone that owns one of these kicks him square in the behind. Cooking inside and getting an ounce of enjoyment out of it is impossible. First you have to remove the battery from the smoke detector that is conveniently mounted almost over the stove. After the third time opening it the screws pull out and you have to remount the detector. Then you have to open the windows/door and hope there is a brisk wind outside. Regardless you then endure 150% humidity while cooking. On normal camping trips we rarely, if ever cook inside but on this trip when we stopped for the night we did and it was not fun. Oh yes and then don't forget to put the battery back in the smoke detector.
#2 If you have one of those fancy lights over your dining area and it's installed with the same screws mine was I can guarantee that at some point and time it will fall. The screws are way too small and it never should have been installed without anchors. The material on the ceiling will rip out over time just as mine did. When mine fell there were nine holes already in the ceiling underneath the light which would indicate to me that again Keystone knew this was a problem when they tried to hang the light.
Last but not least and I hope this will perhaps save some misery for you is that of the Shore water connection. We woke up one morning to water on the floor in the master next to the bed on the left side and thought we had quite a leak going. After quite a bit of time consumed checking out the roof and gutter I discovered the problem was when it rains and you have shorewater hooked up, the water runs off the gutter and right on to the top of the hose. The water then splashes into the indentation where the SW connection is and runs down inside exiting on the floor next to the bed. I normally have a clothespin on the gutters so never had this happen before but this time I didn't.
I might also mention that the DW was VERY happy with the doors I mounted on the storage area under the dinette. Another very cheap thing Keystone could have and should have put on all models including an access door under the bed.
I will have to take my rig in to have the slide readjusted but am quite happy with how this unit performed on such a rigorous trip.

therink · 08-17-2012, 06:40 PM

I agree about the stove vent. I mean "C'MON MAN"! I The first trip out two yrs ago, I decided to cook bacon because it was raining. I turned on the stove vent fan and thought, why is this blowing back in my face? Oh, that's right, I forgot to open the outside flapper. I went outside to open the flapper and it wasn't there. I thought: Cool, it must now vent up the refrigerator stack. Wow, isn't that neat. Well after googling the issue, I figured out, that Keystone thought it was better to save $25 in production costs and make the cooking vapors blow back into the cooks face.
Let's just say, I haven't used the inside stove since then. This is my 5th rv and first without an outside vent. One of these days, I guess I will put one in.
Other than this, and soft floors, I am happy with my Keystone product.
Steve

Halibutman214 · 08-17-2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therink

I agree about the stove vent. I mean "C'MON MAN"! I The first trip out two yrs ago, I decided to cook bacon because it was raining. I turned on the stove vent fan and thought, why is this blowing back in my face? Oh, that's right, I forgot to open the outside flapper. I went outside to open the flapper and it wasn't there. I thought: Cool, it must now vent up the refrigerator stack. Wow, isn't that neat. Well after googling the issue, I figured out, that Keystone thought it was better to save $25 in production costs and make the cooking vapors blow back into the cooks face.
Let's just say, I haven't used the inside stove since then. This is my 5th rv and first without an outside vent. One of these days, I guess I will put one in.
Other than this, and soft floors, I am happy with my Keystone product.
Steve

Well put Steve. Maybe they thought it would be a great idea if the cook had to smell what they were cooking. This will be my next mod. I'm a little hesitant about doing it myself so hope it won't cost me too much.

f6bits · 08-17-2012, 07:32 PM

I’m third in like to kick that guy’s behind. And I’m holding a spot in line for my wife.

One day, I *will* vent that sucker to the outside.

Thanks for the durability update. I’ll keep an eye on the dining lamp. What would make *that* particular joy complete is if it had a pull chain to turn it on and off. That’s be as hilarious as the range hood.

Litre · 08-17-2012, 07:55 PM

I'm not sure if it's just my trailer, but after reading this, I looked. My vent has a little flapper on the outside of the trailer that lines up perfectly with where the range vent is on the inside. The flapper has two tabs (one on either side) that are currently locked, but I twist 'em out of the way and the flapper moves freely. I'm glad I read this, because this wasn't gone over in my PDI, and I would have missed it.

Is this something they changed for the '13 models? Or just on my floorplan or something? It seems to be set up correctly.

**JRTJH** · 08-18-2012, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litre

I'm not sure if it's just my trailer, but after reading this, I looked. My vent has a little flapper on the outside of the trailer that lines up perfectly with where the range vent is on the inside. The flapper has two tabs (one on either side) that are currently locked, but I twist 'em out of the way and the flapper moves freely. I'm glad I read this, because this wasn't gone over in my PDI, and I would have missed it.

Is this something they changed for the '13 models? Or just on my floorplan or something? It seems to be set up correctly.

Some of the Keystone RV's have "direct to outside" range hood venting and some don't. I don't believe anyone has compiled a list of which do and which don't. The feature is not associated with cost of the RV as some of the entry level models have outside vents and some of the more expensive models don't. Apparently yours does (consider yourself lucky). The range hood vent opening and tab locks "should have" been covered in your PDI, and that type of side wall vent has been around since "RV's began".

One comment for you, don't forget to lock the "flapper door" closed when travelling, it can be damaged by wind gusts. However, it is easily replaced, but finding a replacement is not so easy.....

Halibutman214 · 08-18-2012, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litre

I'm not sure if it's just my trailer, but after reading this, I looked. My vent has a little flapper on the outside of the trailer that lines up perfectly with where the range vent is on the inside. The flapper has two tabs (one on either side) that are currently locked, but I twist 'em out of the way and the flapper moves freely. I'm glad I read this, because this wasn't gone over in my PDI, and I would have missed it.

Is this something they changed for the '13 models? Or just on my floorplan or something? It seems to be set up correctly.

You have no idea how lucky you are? This means there is a range hood out there that should fit mine perfectly. Thanks for the info.

Festus2 · 08-18-2012, 07:31 AM

Halibutman214 -
Now that you're back from the Alaskan trip, how did your slideout hold up? Before you left, I seem to recall that you were having some issues with the rollers and mechanism. You didn't mention anything about this in your post trip assessment so I am assuming that the slide didn't cause you any problem.

Bob Landry · 08-18-2012, 09:19 AM

I share the sentiment with the range hood vent. Come on, REALLY?? What moron would not have thought that it would be nice to have a vent? In the case of my Outback, which I don't consider an entry level tailer, The window behind the counter top, you know, the one that never gets used, is too long and covers half the wall behind the stove. My guess is that some DumbA$$ purchasing agent at Keystone found a super deal on a trainload of these windows and they had to use them somewhere.
I never thought to look for it on my PDI, as my previous trailer had one, but if I ever buy another trailer, that will be a deal breaker and it may be a deal breaker with Keystone anyway just because they were stupid about it.
Also, if you haven't done so already, replace the too-short screws holding the cabinet door hinges on with ones that won't pull out while you are bouncing down the road.
You also may want to look at the drawer slide supports while you're at it. I have already rebuilt all of mine, again, short screws going into 1/8" luan plywood scraps are not very durable, but then it does get it out the production door and off to the dealers.
If doing these things create that much of an economic impact in the manufacture of these trailers, maybe the owners at Keystone might consider getting into another line of work, maybe building soap box racers or something.

Quiroule · 08-18-2012, 09:58 AM

Just a thought. Before installing an outside vent, I would definitely make sure that there no vertical stud in the way. That may be the raison why there is none.

Halibutman214 · 08-18-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Festus2

Halibutman214 -
Now that you're back from the Alaskan trip, how did your slideout hold up? Before you left, I seem to recall that you were having some issues with the rollers and mechanism. You didn't mention anything about this in your post trip assessment so I am assuming that the slide didn't cause you any problem.

Thank you for asking. I meant to say something more about the slide. From day one when the slide went out I had to go out and pull the front rubber seal out each and every time I opened it. I'm assuming this is because the front and rear rollers are so chewed up it allows the slide to move further back than it should. The last three times I closed the slide it became harder and harder to get it to lift up off that little ledge. It was to the point the motor would almost completely stop before it would bounce up and close. I will be taking it back to again have the rollers looked at and adjustments made.

Halibutman214 · 08-18-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Landry

I share the sentiment with the range hood vent. Come on, REALLY?? What moron would not have thought that it would be nice to have a vent? In the case of my Outback, which I don't consider an entry level tailer, The window behind the counter top, you know, the one that never gets used, is too long and covers half the wall behind the stove. My guess is that some DumbA$$ purchasing agent at Keystone found a super deal on a trainload of these windows and they had to use them somewhere.
I never thought to look for it on my PDI, as my previous trailer had one, but if I ever buy another trailer, that will be a deal breaker and it may be a deal breaker with Keystone anyway just because they were stupid about it.
Also, if you haven't done so already, replace the too-short screws holding the cabinet door hinges on with ones that won't pull out while you are bouncing down the road.
You also may want to look at the drawer slide supports while you're at it. I have already rebuilt all of mine, again, short screws going into 1/8" luan plywood scraps are not very durable, but then it does get it out the production door and off to the dealers.
If doing these things create that much of an economic impact in the manufacture of these trailers, maybe the owners at Keystone might consider getting into another line of work, maybe building soap box racers or something.

This whole thing with screws and the like had me a little worried that my cabinet doors would start falling off especially on this long trip. I checked them regularly and everything still seems to be tight which has me wondering. I'm sure there are a ton of different screws that go in these rigs. My problem with my slide had to do with the wrong screws being put in. My problem with the light had to do with screws and this issue with cabinets seem to be at least partly because of the screws. Just wondering if they're having a problem keeping their screws straight as to what goes where.

**JRTJH** · 08-18-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Landry

I share the sentiment ...In the case of my Outback, which I don't consider an entry level tailer, ....

Bob, The sad part seems to be that the "entry level" RV's appear to have outside vents yet the higher priced units "dropped the feature"....

In the Keystone Company info section, the website indicates that management of each brand and decisions regarding that brand are kept within that sector of the company, so maybe it's not Keystone, but rather the individual brand name managers that dropped the ball, or to use your words, that's where the "moron" works.....

Bob Landry · 07-10-2013, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quiroule

Just a thought. Before installing an outside vent, I would definitely make sure that there no vertical stud in the way. That may be the raison why there is none.

If there is a stud. that is easy remedied with a Sawzall. The cut studs can easily be reinforced with lengths of 2X2s screwed between them. That's what they do when a long access door is installed and it works fine.

billb800si · 07-13-2013, 05:42 PM

Keystone is not the only RV manufacturer that doesn't have a direct stove exhaust vent.

Use caution when cutting holes in the side of your trailer...
Happy trails,

bdaniel · 07-24-2013, 12:10 PM

Regarding the stove vent, I had to add this vent in a previous 5th wheel I had. The scariest part was cutting the hole in the side wall. I did it once to install an outside shower and I describe how I determined where to cut the hole here:

http://www.bobbystuff.com/RV/index.p...outside-shower

I used that same technique to install a stove vent here:

http://www.bobbystuff.com/RV/index.p...d-exhaust-vent

Bobby

ozkamper · 05-18-2014, 08:46 AM

We have an un-vented one as well and will be removing it. We have a window right next to the stove plus a ceiling vent. If it doesn't vent to the outside then it's not worth having. We will remove it and just put in a nice light.

Whitewolf · 05-18-2014, 01:41 PM

As others found out, I found out the same way the we didn't have and outside vent on our 2011 Passport.

I called the dealer and talked to the main repair guy and asked if he had any idea where the alum studs were. He said 'no'. I then asked if it would be possible to get that info from Keystone. He didn't think so. He understood my dilemma 'cause he had the same problem on a different make and model.

I asked if he had any ideas, and he did. Since we're from the north he said to wait til a frosty morning while camping. Then look at the outside of the Passport walls and I'd see a 'shadow' of where the studs were. He was right.

I could have marked the wall with a pencil and installed the fix when we got home.

Did I? No. We traded it for a POC before I did. We camped in that POC 3 times before I traded back to a Keystone. Well, soon anyway. Yea, and Christmas is coming too.

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