2021 Raptor 351 Fresh Water Tank Overflow

[Art L]

I bought a new 2021 351 Raptor 3 weeks ago. When filling the fresh water tank I expected water to come out an overflow line under the camper when full. What happened was water began leaking from the under belly around the drain/dump valve line. I have looked everywhere under this unit and do not see an overflow line anywhere. The fresh water tank vent is on the passenger side of camper near the front door. If there is not an overflow line I would expect water to come out the vent when the tank was full. I slightly cut the under belly open around the drain line and it appears the water is coming out of a fitting on the side of the tank or from the top of the tank. Unable to see well enough to tell for sure. The manual says stop filling when the tank gauge reads full but it began leaking prior to reading full.

Has anyone else had this or similar issues with the fresh water tank? Thanks

[flybouy]

There is no overflow line that I'm aware of. When filling from a hose that's directly connected (not a gravity fill) you could over pressurise the tank and fittings depending on the water pressure of the supply. Sounds like you have a damaged fitting or tank. The only way to find out is a visual inspection.

[Essvar]

Originally Posted by Art L

I bought a new 2021 351 Raptor 3 weeks ago. When filling the fresh water tank I expected water to come out an overflow line under the camper when full. What happened was water began leaking from the under belly around the drain/dump valve line. I have looked everywhere under this unit and do not see an overflow line anywhere. The fresh water tank vent is on the passenger side of camper near the front door. If there is not an overflow line I would expect water to come out the vent when the tank was full. I slightly cut the under belly open around the drain line and it appears the water is coming out of a fitting on the side of the tank or from the top of the tank. Unable to see well enough to tell for sure. The manual says stop filling when the tank gauge reads full but it began leaking prior to reading full.

Has anyone else had this or similar issues with the fresh water tank? Thanks

Could you hear air coming out of the vent while filling? Are all the levers in the convenience center in the proper position for power filling?



It sounds like there might be excess pressure in the tank.

[Art L]

There is no gravity fill on this unit, only power fill. Using 40 PSI regulator on the supply hose so as long as it’s working and the vent is properly plumbed it should not over pressure.

Flybouy how do you tell when your tank is full? And thank you for your response!!

[Art L]

Originally Posted by Essvar

Could you hear air coming out of the vent while filling? Are all the levers in the convenience center in the proper position for power filling?



It sounds like there might be excess pressure in the tank.

Could not feel air coming out of the vent but thought I could hear kind of a gurgling sound (but my hearing is not the best lol). I have a tankless on demand water heater so there is only 1 valve in the convenience center. It’s either city water or power fill.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Art L

There is no gravity fill on this unit, only power fill. Using 40 PSI regulator on the supply hose so as long as it’s working and the vent is properly plumbed it should not over pressure.

Flybouy how do you tell when your tank is full? And thank you for your response!!

Mine is gravity fill so not applicable. If it were a "power fill" I would start out with an emty tank and use a water meter. I would also check the tank vent for air escaping. If hearing is an issue then hold a tissue over it and see if it moves and how much it moves. If it doesn’t move, or if it moves in "puffs", thats to say it doesn’t move, then after some tme it blows out then doesn't move again, could be an indication of a kinked or obstructed line.

If I suspected an issue with the vent line then I would remve it from the side of the trailer and blow thru the hose. If it's open it should not be difficult to blow through.

[Art L]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Mine is gravity fill so not applicable. If it were a "power fill" I would start out with an emty tank and use a water meter. I would also check the tank vent for air escaping. If hearing is an issue then hold a tissue over it and see if it moves and how much it moves. If it doesn’t move, or if it moves in "puffs", thats to say it doesn’t move, then after some tme it blows out then doesn't move again, could be an indication of a kinked or obstructed line.

If I suspected an issue with the vent line then I would remve it from the side of the trailer and blow thru the hose. If it's open it should not be difficult to blow through.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that. I will have to find a water meter. I still don’t think it should be leaking out the underbelly so something is not right on it.

Thanks again flybouy

[MotoDad293]

I have a 2021 351 also. In addition the to the PF/City Water Valve, there is a water heater bypass valve you need to turn. I think the vent and overflow are the same port near the main entrance door. I fill until water gurgles out the vent. I do it at full pressure from the my fresh water tap after my softener in my garage. No pressure regulator. I have no leaks of water from under the coach.....

[Art L]

Originally Posted by MotoDad293

I have a 2021 351 also. In addition the to the PF/City Water Valve, there is a water heater bypass valve you need to turn. I think the vent and overflow are the same port near the main entrance door. I fill until water gurgles out the vent. I do it at full pressure from the my fresh water tap after my softener in my garage. No pressure regulator. I have no leaks of water from under the coach.....

MotoDad thanks so much for the reply. I do not have a water heater bypass valve on mine as it has an On Demand Water Heater (no hot water tank). Please see the attached pics of convenience center. I talked to the dealership again and they confirmed this. See the pics attached. What you described when filling your tank is exactly how I think it should work. My guess is they did not hook up the vent to the tank or it is somehow compromised (broke, pinched or never hooked up. I believe the dealer is going to have to drop the tank and see what the issue is. I live in southern Indiana and the dealership is 350 miles away in Muskegon Michigan, so it's no short trip to take it back.



I have contacted 4 keystone dealers in my area and none of them will do warranty work on these campers unless they actually sold them. That's really frustrating to me. I do not understand the issue? I wonder if anyone else has ran into this problem. Keystone factory suggested I contact a local dealer and take it to them so I don't think they are aware of this issue but I will be getting back with them.


MotoDad thanks again for your reply

[flybouy]

Keystone's standard reply isto take it to a dealer. They are well aware I belive of the non purchasing gealer tefusing warranty work or placing you well back behind customers that did purchase from them when scheduling. This is a common practice and one of the major reasons most folks will advise buying from a dealer far away to save money. Often that decision can end up costing jore in the long run.

[Art L]

Update for anyone interested. I have verified the vent is hooked up and functioning. I drained the fresh water tank. With the 1 1/2" drain these tanks have it was easy to hear water gurgling and air flow while draining. To further verify the vent was hooked to the tank I removed the cover and bug screen on the vent and ran a water hose into the vent. Water then flowed out the tank drain valve so indeed the vent is hooked up and functioning. So there is a leak in the tank or a fitting towards the top of the tank.


Thanks for everyone's input and advice. More to come when I learn more.

[MotoDad293]

Umm.. even with the tankless on-demand water heater, you should still have the bypass valve. I do!! I have the tankless on-demand water heater as well and I have the valve.

I have also taken down the basement walls and visibly laid eyes on the water heater.

Having the bypass valve is just as important or more important with the tankless... There is no doubt in my mind you should have the bypass valve!!!

We too bought our 351 from a dealer about 300 miles from home when there is a Raptor dealer with a service department about 5 miles from home. The further dealer offered the better deal. The local dealer did do some warranty work when I first got the coach but now as he has gotten much busier he is saying he is booked 6-7 months out for an appt.

I ended up finding a mobile guy to work with and decided for cheap fixes to suck it up and pay the mobile guy or do it myself. I dunno what I would do if something major happens.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Keystone's standard reply isto take it to a dealer. They are well aware I belive of the non purchasing gealer tefusing warranty work or placing you well back behind customers that did purchase from them when scheduling. This is a common practice and one of the major reasons most folks will advise buying from a dealer far away to save money. Often that decision can end up costing jore in the long run.

You’ve developed a Norwegian accent my friend …..just kiddin around. I spend half my time cussing at the keyboard when I’m typing

[Art L]

Originally Posted by MotoDad293

Umm.. even with the tankless on-demand water heater, you should still have the bypass valve. I do!! I have the tankless on-demand water heater as well and I have the valve.

I have also taken down the basement walls and visibly laid eyes on the water heater.

Having the bypass valve is just as important or more important with the tankless... There is no doubt in my mind you should have the bypass valve!!!

We too bought our 351 from a dealer about 300 miles from home when there is a Raptor dealer with a service department about 5 miles from home. The further dealer offered the better deal. The local dealer did do some warranty work when I first got the coach but now as he has gotten much busier he is saying he is booked 6-7 months out for an appt.

I ended up finding a mobile guy to work with and decided for cheap fixes to suck it up and pay the mobile guy or do it myself. I dunno what I would do if something major happens.

The reason we went so far away to get this unit is the wife seen a 351 back in July and fell in love with it. This was the closest one I could find without trying to order one, and they had the best price as well.

Interesting...is your water heater bypass valve located in the convenience center in the area i was pointing to in the picture? I questioned not having a bypass when I picked up the camper and the dealer said there was no need for a bypass with the on demand heater as you can blow the lines out and run antifreeze through the heater. After thinking about it I agreed with the salesman's explanation. I had a 2011 300 MP Raptor before I bought this camper. The only time I opened my bypass was when I winterized the camper or disinfected it with bleach water so what he said made sense to me.

There is surely something I am not thinking about on this. Please explain why you think the bypass is important.

And again MotoDad I appreciate your input.

[MotoDad293]

Originally Posted by Art L

Interesting...is your water heater bypass valve located in the convenience center in the area i was pointing to in the picture? I questioned not having a bypass when I picked up the camper and the dealer said there was no need for a bypass with the on demand heater as you can blow the lines out and run antifreeze through the heater. After thinking about it I agreed with the salesman's explanation. I had a 2011 300 MP Raptor before I bought this camper. The only time I opened my bypass was when I winterized the camper or disinfected it with bleach water so what he said made sense to me.

Yes, it is in the exact spot you are pointing at. I will take a picture tonight as I am going to go to the trailer in storage shortly to drop off my freshly filled LP tanks and fire up the fridge for this weekend's adventure. My coach is a 2021 351.

Yours is the first and only Raptor (2020-21) that I have seen without the water heater bypass valve. I had looked at quite a few 20-21 Raptors before purchasing mine, which I did sight unseen. This is my first time having a readily accessible bypass valve and my first time having a tankless heater. During my PDI dealer emphasized having it in bypass when filling the fresh water tank. I am in California and have never winterized a coach.

I would call Keystone tomorrow and confirm your coach should have it.

[larryflew]

When you find the leak make sure they check your insulation and replace as needed.

[Art L]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Mine is gravity fill so not applicable. If it were a "power fill" I would start out with an emty tank and use a water meter. I would also check the tank vent for air escaping. If hearing is an issue then hold a tissue over it and see if it moves and how much it moves. If it doesn’t move, or if it moves in "puffs", thats to say it doesn’t move, then after some tme it blows out then doesn't move again, could be an indication of a kinked or obstructed line.

If I suspected an issue with the vent line then I would remve it from the side of the trailer and blow thru the hose. If it's open it should not be difficult to blow through.

Update;


I have been busy and not responded to this thread for a while. I appreciate everyone's input.


As suggested by flybouy i was able to borrow a neptune water meter (same meter as used in residential water meters) from my water company to determine how many gallons are in the tank when it starts leaking. It began leaking at about 82 gallons. Well short of the advertised 106 gallon capacity of the tank. So it appears the leak is on the side of the tank.



In addition about 20 gallons into the fill a significant amount of water blew/belched out of the vent. Hard to determine the amount but it was enough to soak and side of the camper and it was easy to hear it when it happened. This tells me the vent line has a low point in it that is holding water. A tank vent should continuously slope back to the tank and not have any low spots to allow water to collect which creates a seal. While filling, the tank has to come under enough pressure to move the water out of the low point which is not good.


MY plan is to take the unit back to the dealer in Michigan when we are finished using it for the season. Hopefully they will be able to fix this and the other issues the camper has.



Thanks again for everyone's input and suggestions. Much appreciated

[flybouy]

Two things, the listed water capacity includes the water heater and getting the twnk " completly full" will depend on getting the tank perfectly level. Sometimes the vent line is installed with a dip to trap a little bit of water. For a few years there were reports of water being "siphoned out" of the tank while going down the road. I'd take it in and have it checked out while it's in warranty.

[JRTJH]

Something else to consider related to "capacity" of any tank in an RV:

Total capacity of a tank is usually obtained with the tank sitting on a table where the sides can bulge slightly (unrestrained) while the measured gallons are put into the tank.....

In an RV, most tanks are placed "between two crossmembers with steel straps under the tank and solid flooring above the tank"... That means the tank is not "free to bulge" when installed in an RV.

Then, to compound the specification sheet, trailer manufacturers report "total fresh water capacity" which includes water in the water heater, plumbing lines and any other storage location (accumulator tanks, reservoirs or storage bladders...

So, to put this into perspective, here's a realistic probability:

Unrestrained tank capacity: 96 gallons
Water heater: 12 gallons
Plumbing lines: 2 gallons
Accumulator tank: 1 gallon

Specification chart "total fresh water capacity": 111 gallons

In reality:

Restrained tank capacity: 86 gallons
capacity available from water heater: 0
capacity available from plumbing lines: 0
capacity available from accumulator as bladder contracts): 3/4 gallon

Real world fresh water capacity: 86.75 gallons.

So, in comparison, your "advertised 106 gallons" minus 12 gallons for the water heater and 2 gallons for plumbing runs would give you a "available fresh water capacity" of 92 gallons. Considering "tank restrainment", being able to measure "about 86 gallons before it began to leak" could easily mean a split at/on the top of the fresh water tank just as easily as it could mean a split along the side, an inch or so below the top.....

[Art L]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Something else to consider related to "capacity" of any tank in an RV:

Total capacity of a tank is usually obtained with the tank sitting on a table where the sides can bulge slightly (unrestrained) while the measured gallons are put into the tank.....

In an RV, most tanks are placed "between two crossmembers with steel straps under the tank and solid flooring above the tank"... That means the tank is not "free to bulge" when installed in an RV.

Then, to compound the specification sheet, trailer manufacturers report "total fresh water capacity" which includes water in the water heater, plumbing lines and any other storage location (accumulator tanks, reservoirs or storage bladders...

So, to put this into perspective, here's a realistic probability:

Unrestrained tank capacity: 96 gallons
Water heater: 12 gallons
Plumbing lines: 2 gallons
Accumulator tank: 1 gallon

Specification chart "total fresh water capacity": 111 gallons

In reality:

Restrained tank capacity: 86 gallons
capacity available from water heater: 0
capacity available from plumbing lines: 0
capacity available from accumulator as bladder contracts): 3/4 gallon

Real world fresh water capacity: 86.75 gallons.

So, in comparison, your "advertised 106 gallons" minus 12 gallons for the water heater and 2 gallons for plumbing runs would give you a "available fresh water capacity" of 92 gallons. Considering "tank restrainment", being able to measure "about 86 gallons before it began to leak" could easily mean a split at/on the top of the fresh water tank just as easily as it could mean a split along the side, an inch or so below the top.....

This unit has an on demand water heater which eliminates the 12 gallons for the water heater tank. I know agree the gvwr/cargo capacity includes water in heater tank but I presumed the listed fresh water tank volume was the actual gallons the tank will hold. I am taking it back to the dealership in November for this and several other issues this unit has.

Thanks for your reply.