Two sewer pipes

deer30084 · 01-10-2021, 02:46 PM

I have been a travel trailer camper for about 25 years. Recently a camper showed me his new Passport and it had two, YES 2, connections he must use at the dump station. What a pain in the ______.! It's enough trouble at the dump station. Now it's made even harder. Whoever designed that system is obviously not a camper and should be fired. My 2018 Passport has one connection thank God. Reading posts on here people are already trying to defeat the system by modifying it. If you are buying a travel trailer and the dealer shows you one with two sewer hookups, walk away.

**chuckster57** · 01-10-2021, 02:57 PM

I guess that’s your right, my ‘97 Jayco had two separate dump terminations and it didn’t stop me from buying it and using it for 13 1/2 years.

Not ALL trailers have the same floor plan, so placement of waste tanks are not going to be in the same place on all trailers. Again it’s your choice to buy or not, but that’s not a reason to fire the person that designed it.

**JRTJH** · 01-10-2021, 03:29 PM

If you've got your heart set on a 40' toyhauler with a bathroom in the front for "mom and dad" and a bathroom in the back for "guests or kids", then you're pretty much going to have two separate black tank dump stations. There's very little chance of obtaining a drain slope for a 3" black tank under most fifth wheels with 25-30 feet between the two tanks.

Depending on the length of the trailer and the floorplan, sometimes it's simply not feasible to connect everything to one outlet. That doesn't mean the trailer is not functional, it simply means there's a "tradeoff" that needs to be made. Some prefer the single outlet, some prefer the dual toilet floorplan. Neither is "wrong for everybody" just as there's no "mandatory chocolate only ice cream"... To each his own....

It's not a "Keystone issue". Trailers from Forest River, Jayco, Winnebago, Keystone, Grand Design, Prime Time, and nearly every manufacturer that builds trailers longer than around 35' have floorplans with more than one waste water outlet.

Face it, Camco didn't build a "Y" connector exclusively for "Keystone mistakes". Dual waste water outlets have been around for years and the quantity of floorplans that require them is growing, not diminishing.....

deer30084 · 01-10-2021, 03:37 PM

Sure, but a Keystone Passport is only 30 feet. You can bet your bottom dollar this recent change was to save the manufacturer money some kind of way. It sure isn't for the customers' convenience. And it sure is making people purchase aftermarket stuff to CORRECT the problem. And it is a problem that people are on this forum trying to figure out how to fix it. I stand by my original advice. Buying a 30' travel trailer? Does the one you're looking at have two waste connections? Don't buy it. If you do, you will be cursing at the dump station.

**JRTJH** · 01-10-2021, 03:47 PM

I can't begin to count the number of people who buy a travel trailer without even owning a tow vehicle. Their plan is to place it on a permanent/semi-permanent foundation at an "RV resort" and use it on the weekends, never moving it from the site. To them, the floorplan is significantly more important than the number of sewer dumps.

On the other hand, there are people who buy a travel trailer with no plans to ever stay in one place more than a couple of days. To them, the convenience of a single sewer outlet is more important, but not necessarily to ALL of them.

There is more than enough room for BOTH types of floorplans and BOTH types of sewer connection systems... I'd suggest, if you have an issue with two outlets, rather than get your "panties in a wad" just don't buy one. Realize, however, there are a large enough number of buyers that want what's "above the floor" to fit their needs and couldn't care less how many outlets are below the floor....

As for "but it's a 30' trailer"... I've seen dual sewer outlets on 25' trailers from Jayco, so length of the trailer is not the "only" consideration for justifying one or two outlets.

Roper46 · 01-10-2021, 04:33 PM

My TT has two separate gray tanks. One in the front for the bathroom and the other in the rear for the galley. The wife and I love the rear galley so we have no problem with the rear gray tank.

I do have the "Y" connection for a separate hose but have not used it yet. I just move the forward one to the rear to dump. I'm concerned both hoses would not fit in the rear bumper of the TT. So I'm not sure where I would store the second hose.

wobly · 01-10-2021, 04:34 PM

Our 2019 29BHS has two dump outlets. The rear one has both the black tank and gray water from the shower and bathroom sink. The front dump is only for the kitchen sink. Would it be convenient to have one dump valve? Of course! But, the distance to run the pipe from the front to the rear is pretty long. Besides, it would fill up the gray tank faster if the kitchen sink was connected.

cavie · 01-10-2021, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deer30084

I have been a travel trailer camper for about 25 years. Recently a camper showed me his new Passport and it had two, YES 2, connections he must use at the dump station. What a pain in the ______.! It's enough trouble at the dump station. Now it's made even harder. Whoever designed that system is obviously not a camper and should be fired. My 2018 Passport has one connection thank God. Reading posts on here people are already trying to defeat the system by modifying it. If you are buying a travel trailer and the dealer shows you one with two sewer hookups, walk away.

perhaps you can become an engineer and learn how to make the poo run uphill and over the axels and have plenty of ground clearance? That is part of the problem you are talking about. I have one on each side of the axels.

**chuckster57** · 01-10-2021, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavie

perhaps you can become an engineer and learn how to make the poo run uphill and over the axels and have plenty of ground clearance? That is part of the problem you are talking about. I have one on each side of the axels.

I have worked on Class C motorhomes with the dump hookups on opposite sides

mcmeadows1 · 01-10-2021, 05:05 PM

Our 5th wheel RV (34’ long) has two sewer outlets. The one in front of the axles is used to drain the the main bath black tank, the main bath gray tank, and kitchen galley tank. The rear one (behind the axles, almost at the end of the RV) is used to drain the 1/2 bath.

I don’t know for certain, as the underbelly is completely enclosed, but based on the floor plan and drain pipes I can see in the basement storage area and below the coroplast, it appears the main bath black and gray tanks, and fresh water tank, are all in front of the axles. The galley tank appears to sit above the front axle. When all these tanks are full, the weight of the fluid in them is spread across the hitch pin and axles. (Each waste tank holds 40 gallons and the fresh water tank holds 60 gallons.) That is about 1,500 lbs of fluid!

Having the 1/2 bath black tank (40 gallons) at almost the very end of the RV allows it’s weight, when full (about 333 lbs) to counter the weight of the front tanks on the hitch pin.

In addition to accommodating the floor plan layout, having the rear tank (and its associated drain outlet) allows for better weight distribution across the full length of the RV. It also somewhat reduces the hitch pin weight. Also, not having a drain pipe running from the rear 1/2 bath to connect to the front drain outlet allows for lots of ground clearance under the RV, in particular under the axles.

As for inconvenience, either when camped with full hookups or when draining the waste tanks, there really isn’t any. As mentioned in an earlier post, the use of a wye connector and an extra sewer hose, are all that are needed to connect both drains to the sewer hookup. When dumping the the tanks, we hook up the front drain, drain all three front tanks, disconnect the sewer hose from the front drain, pull the RV forward, hookup the sewer hose to the rear drain, and drain the 1/2 bath tank. This adds about five minutes to the whole process.

Given the advantages of having a 1/2 bath, and it’s separate drain outlet, I will gladly deal with having two drain outlets. Furthermore, I never even considered it an issue, or potential issue, until I read the original post of this message thread. And I still don’t consider it an issue.

Just my thoughts.

Marty

**flybouy** · 01-10-2021, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deer30084

I have been a travel trailer camper for about 25 years. Recently a camper showed me his new Passport and it had two, YES 2, connections he must use at the dump station. What a pain in the ______.! It's enough trouble at the dump station. Now it's made even harder. Whoever designed that system is obviously not a camper and should be fired. My 2018 Passport has one connection thank God. Reading posts on here people are already trying to defeat the system by modifying it. If you are buying a travel trailer and the dealer shows you one with two sewer hookups, walk away.

You have basically said the same thing in a reply to another post. While you may not find it "acceptable" it's not a design or construction flaw. The fact that you don't understand why it's that way is no reason to tell others to "walk away" in my opinion.

deer30084 · 01-11-2021, 05:59 AM

Looks like my comment has met a lot of resistance from those in the business. One even told me to become an engineer. Nice guy. You can defend two sewer outlets all you want, but the fact of the matter is at the dump station it is a pain in the _____. Customers are now inconvenienced. They are on here searching for ways to FIX THE PROBLEM. Ones that bought a trailer with two outlets now have to buy more equipment and figure out how to store the extra pipe and Y fittings, especially those with a 30' or less travel trailer. Yeah, it's my right. I will never buy a travel trailer with two sewer outlets. It takes more equipment, more time and aggravation at the dump station. Next!

**flybouy** · 01-11-2021, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deer30084

Looks like my comment has met a lot of resistance from those in the business. One even told me to become an engineer. Nice guy. You can defend two sewer outlets all you want, but the fact of the matter is at the dump station it is a pain in the _____. Customers are now inconvenienced. They are on here searching for ways to FIX THE PROBLEM. Ones that bought a trailer with two outlets now have to buy more equipment and figure out how to store the extra pipe and Y fittings, especially those with a 30' or less travel trailer. Yeah, it's my right. I will never buy a travel trailer with two sewer outlets. It takes more equipment, more time and aggravation at the dump station. Next!

I think you not only don't understand why there are multiple dump points but also don't understand that folks are trying to explain why it's that way. Your responses are the "resistant" responses. Folks aren't looking for a way to "FIX THE PROBLEM", they are looking for a way to make it more convenient. It's not like you can't use it without a "Y" connection.

The only way to to make it meet YOUR demand would be to install a macerator pump to pump the effluent over the axles to the other outlet. That would add a lot extra expense and weight to appease a few people or not to offer a layout that incorporates water usage at both ends of the trailer. I think that would be an inconvenience to most users of those units.

As for more equipment, well if you've ever bought a new trailer then you know there's a lot of equipment that most people purchase that does not come with the camper. For instance a decent water hose, water regulator, a decent sewer hose, leveling blocks, EMS,extension shore cable, etc. The dealer will set you up with the bare necessities to use the trailer. The customer then buys accessories to suit their desires.

FWIW I'm not "in the business" nor do I have any affiliation with and manufacturer , dealer, or repair center. I'm just trying to help you understand why this is a common practice in all brands that are built with tanks on either side of the axles which are a major obstacle to designing or implementing and common drain in these designs If you don't por refuse to understand then continue your rant but for other folks reading this In hope it help[s them understand.

Alpine · 01-11-2021, 08:39 AM

"Asking for a friend".... is it the same folks that are in a huge hurry at the dump stations the same ones that are doing 75 mph on the highway?

Personally I have never found it an inconvenience to have to pull forward a few feet to empty my galley tank. And before pulling forward I walk back to the person next in line and tell them... incase they don't want to start-up their rig just to pull forward a few feet.

JDDilly · 01-11-2021, 09:13 AM

I have had 2 rigs with 2 dump points. Has never been a problem for me. I have a Y and some extra hose, not much more then I had before. I look at the floor plan that fits our life style and if it has 2 dump points, so be it.

deer30084 · 01-11-2021, 09:58 AM

I wish to thank the person who designed my 2018 Keystone Passport with one waste water outlet. It sure saves me time at the dump station which I'm sure the person behind me appreciates. To the person that designed the 2021 Keystone Passport with two waste water outlets and the people who sat around the boardroom table and approved the design, you screwed up. You people who defend the two waste water outlet design have the monstrous rigs that need it and you have gobs of storage space for all your junk. Plus some of you are probably full timers who don't care about it. Either way, kudos to the 2018 Keystone Passport designer who designed mine with one waste water outlet. Maybe he/she is reading this and can explain to the "resistance" how one waste water outlet was suitable for the 2018. Then have the designer of the 2021 Keystone Passport explain why two is better. My guess is, it saves a miniscule of weight and parts and saves the company money. Why should the company expend the money making it convenient for the customer? Make the customer figure it out and spend his/her money making it convenient for themselves. Next!

**JRTJH** · 01-11-2021, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deer30084

I wish to thank the person who designed my 2018 Keystone Passport with one waste water outlet. It sure saves me time at the dump station which I'm sure the person behind me appreciates. To the person that designed the 2021 Keystone Passport with two waste water outlets and the people who sat around the boardroom table and approved the design, you screwed up. You people who defend the two waste water outlet design have the monstrous rigs that need it and you have gobs of storage space for all your junk. Plus some of you are probably full timers who don't care about it. Either way, kudos to the 2018 Keystone Passport designer who designed mine with one waste water outlet. Maybe he/she is reading this and can explain to the "resistance" how one waste water outlet was suitable for the 2018. Then have the designer of the 2021 Keystone Passport explain why two is better. My guess is, it saves a miniscule of weight and parts and saves the company money. Why should the company expend the money making it convenient for the customer? Make the customer figure it out and spend his/her money making it convenient for themselves. Next!

I'd simply ask: What "skin in the game" do you have ???

You do not own a trailer with two sewer outlets and apparently have no experience with any trailer with two sewer outlets.

We've heard from numerous members who do have trailers with two outlets and the vast majority, possibly even all of them, have said it's not an issue when compared to the convenience it provides "above the floor". Why continue to argue for (or against) something that simply is a "non starter" for the vast majority of members and doesn't affect you?

JDDilly · 01-11-2021, 10:08 AM

deer30084, you are going to beat this to death on multiple threads. We get it, you don't like or ever want this, but you are not the only customer. some of us are fine with the little, and it is little, inconvenience with 2 sewer pipes.

If this is all that bothers you today, you are having a good day.

JGEORGE · 01-11-2021, 10:18 AM

I have two on a 26 Bullet, one each gray/black. I can drain both tanks faster than our previous trailer with one valve. Probably because of the length needed for only one valve. Originally thought it would be a pain and slower, but just didn't work out like that for us. I have a Y connector for when we stay at full hookup sites but that is rare.

Wyldfire · 01-11-2021, 10:23 AM

Having previously had a camper with only one outlet for three tanks thats inadequate slope made dumping a slow tedious process I'm quite happy to have 2 separate dump outlets on current trailer. On previous trailer I had to put blocks under passenger tires and raise front hitch jack up to get tanks to completely drain. Lots quicker with new trailer to dump front tanks and move forward and dump back tanks.

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