A "loaded" question....

[wegone]

I think I am getting closer to wrapping an understanding around all the numbers, etc, to towing.

I still need hard numbers which is in the works, but just to lay a foundation re: truck, this is the sticker, and even tho the Ford site graphs do not agree, this is the actual loading weight max, 3095 pounds....right?

Now my axle(s) loading is greater than my actual GVWR @ 10000 pounds, why is that?

So, am I right in thinking my curb weight is around 6,905 pounds?

I've attached the stickers:

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

I think I am getting closer to wrapping an understanding around all the numbers, etc, to towing.

I still need hard numbers which is in the works, but just to lay a foundation re: truck, this is the sticker, and even tho the Ford site graphs do not agree, this is the actual loading weight max, 3095 pounds....right?

Now my axle(s) loading is greater than my actual GVWR @ 10000 pounds, why is that?

So, am I right in thinking my curb weight is around 6,905 pounds?

I've attached the stickers:

Yes to curb weight: GVWR - Sticker Payload Cap = Curb Weight (as it left the factory)

I was curious about the axle rating not agreeing myself, when I started looking at trucks. The explanation I found was that this allows for different loading scenarios. For instance, you could have a snow plow on the front end, greatly increasing front axle weight....which then must be accounted for when loading up on the rear. You still cannot load up both axles to their limit w/o exceeding GVWR.

If I'm understanding the comment regarding 'not agreeing with the Ford charts'. They never will. Payload capacities on the charts are typically for a base model vehicle. Any option added/removed from a particular trim level will impact this. Because of this, even though a particular truck model may have a 10K GVWR, each vehicle's 'sticker' payload will vary as it all depends on the curb weight, which is impacted by how many bells & whistles the specific truck was ordered with.

That sticker payload is obviously a dynamic figure that was only accurate when the truck left the assembly line. Available payload is always what your truck weighs at any given time, subtracted from (in your case) the 10K GVWR. Best to weigh the truck to see where you stand.

[wegone]

Thank you....

I weighed my truck on a closed scale off the highway in rural Montana a couple of weeks ago.
I was letting traffic by on a two lane highway, and noticed the scale was still working, so what the heck.

Rolling over the scale my truck with trailer attached was 7700 pounds, me and wife and 2 minnie weenies.

My trailer was around 6300 pounds loaded, no water or waste.

Everything is stock.

Off the cuff I think I am looking pretty good, but I'll get my CAT soon and put this stuff to bed.

[rhagfo]

Yes, loaded question! What are your plans?

[wegone]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Yes, loaded question! What are your plans?

Get my rig weighed and UNDERSTOOD

BTW, looking at the Ford chart, my sticker is a higher payload, not sure why?

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

Get my rig weighed and UNDERSTOOD

BTW, looking at the Ford chart, my sticker is a higher payload, not sure why?

Pretty interesting.

Your VIN shows the vehicle as a 4x4 Supercab. Wheel base on tag is 142". The 2011 Ford Body Builders Guide indicates a max payload of 2710 lbs for this model.

More interesting is that there is no gas model F250 listed in the Ford guide with a GVWR of 10K.

The link to 'your truck' that you posted several months ago indicates an F250. Is that correct or is it an F350?

The F350 would make more sense as max payload for a 4x4 Supercab with 142" wb is 3270 for a 10K GVWR vehicle.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

Thank you....

I weighed my truck on a closed scale off the highway in rural Montana a couple of weeks ago.
I was letting traffic by on a two lane highway, and noticed the scale was still working, so what the heck.

Rolling over the scale my truck with trailer attached was 7700 pounds, me and wife and 2 minnie weenies.

My trailer was around 6300 pounds loaded, no water or waste.

Everything is stock.

Off the cuff I think I am looking pretty good, but I'll get my CAT soon and put this stuff to bed.

You do look pretty good, 800# added to truck for occupants and tongue weight. What rear gears does your F250 have?

[wegone]

3.73... according to the sticker.

[wegone]

Originally Posted by markcee

Pretty interesting.

Your VIN shows the vehicle as a 4x4 Supercab. Wheel base on tag is 142". The 2011 Ford Body Builders Guide indicates a max payload of 2710 lbs for this model.

More interesting is that there is no gas model F250 listed in the Ford guide with a GVWR of 10K.

The link to 'your truck' that you posted several months ago indicates an F250. Is that correct or is it an F350?

The F350 would make more sense as max payload for a 4x4 Supercab with 142" wb is 3270 for a 10K GVWR vehicle.

I know, this is why I struggle to get all the numbers to align....???

I recall when I bought it the truck from a small lot that they had to "check" with the owner's friend, who owned the truck, when I made an offer (remember those days)

I purchased the truck in Washington, but the truck was a Canadian truck originally, as was the "owner" and he had the truck made to order, which I believe because it has some features not offered at that level of trim....???
He worked for Ford in some capacity, or something like that, or so I was told.

I was told it had 25 more horsepower because it did not have the required smog stuff that was mandated in the USA at the time, etc...

I cannot vouch for any of this "rumor"

The truck has been great, love it, no complaints, pulls my trailer with no issues, and going over the continental divide with a hefty side wind a couple of weeks ago, handle it with ease, up and down....

At this point from what I understand if I am ever "checked" for weight compliance, that sticker is the holy grail that actual weight will be "weighed" (pun intended) against.....

Maybe this guy had a Freak-250 built?

EDIT: Might those axle weights provide a clue? They seem pretty generous for a 250?

Edit #2: I did find a rating of 3550 pounds on this truck @ 10000 pounds for current model.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

I know, this is why I struggle to get all the numbers to align....???

I recall when I bought it the truck from a small lot that they had to "check" with the owner's friend, who owned the truck, when I made an offer (remember those days)

I purchased the truck in Washington, but the truck was a Canadian truck originally, as was the "owner" and he had the truck made to order, which I believe because it has some features not offered at that level of trim....???
He worked for Ford in some capacity, or something like that, or so I was told.

I was told it had 25 more horsepower because it did not have the required smog stuff that was mandated in the USA at the time, etc...

I cannot vouch for any of this "rumor"

The truck has been great, love it, no complaints, pulls my trailer with no issues, and going over the continental divide with a hefty side wind a couple of weeks ago, handle it with ease, up and down....

At this point from what I understand if I am ever "checked" for weight compliance, that sticker is the holy grail that actual weight will be "weighed" (pun intended) against.....

Maybe this guy had a Freak-250 built?

EDIT: Might those axle weights provide a clue? They seem pretty generous for a 250?

Edit #2: I did find a rating of 3550 pounds on this truck @ 10000 pounds for current model.

That's a good catch. Book shows 4800 lb standard fGAWR. 5200 is an upgraded spring. Probably snowplow/heavy service or camper package.

I didn't see any '11 F250 ratings over 3K or @ 10K GVWR in the Ford guide I linked. You must have found a better book!

[wegone]

Originally Posted by markcee

That's a good catch. Book shows 4800 lb standard fGAWR. 5200 is an upgraded spring. Probably snowplow/heavy service or camper package.

I didn't see any '11 F250 ratings over 3K or @ 10K GVWR in the Ford guide I linked. You must have found a better book!

I had to go look in the Ford site current models, not 2011, but the F250 did have 10k and that payload rating available on some models.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

I had to go look in the Ford site current models, not 2011, but the F250 did have 10k and that payload rating available on some models.

Big diff in GVWR (and as a result payload) in 2022 vs 2011. Ford makes a 'de-rated' F250 at 9,900 GVWR, but the rest are 10K and over. Both Ford and GM make some model 3/4 tons with over 11K GVWR. Instant payload increase!

[rhagfo]

Well I did a quick search and found that Marti is the 3rd party company that provides build sheets for Ford.
Seems you need some basic information on the vehicle to start with which I don’t have.
I used the Ram vin search to look at installed options when looking for our 2016 Ram.
Marti web site.
https://www.martiauto.com/martireports.cfm

[bsmith0404]

Everyone has answered a lot of your questions and even the axle rating be GVWR was partially addressed. I just wanted to add that the GAWR does not have to and seldom does match the GVWR. GVWR is based on the weakest link, could be tires, could be springs, or frame. That is why every after market company that supplies upgraded components for trucks puts a disclaimer that adding that part does not change the GVWR. They don’t know if the component that is being replaced is the weakest link. Even if it was, they don’t know what the next weakest link would be and what it’s rated for. Companies that “upgrade” vehicles such as limo, or companies that stretch chassis for other reasons, and change the certification label have to make sure that every component is capable of the new rating.

[wegone]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Everyone has answered a lot of your questions and even the axle rating be GVWR was partially addressed. I just wanted to add that the GAWR does not have to and seldom does match the GVWR. GVWR is based on the weakest link, could be tires, could be springs, or frame. That is why every after market company that supplies upgraded components for trucks puts a disclaimer that adding that part does not change the GVWR. They don’t know if the component that is being replaced is the weakest link. Even if it was, they don’t know what the next weakest link would be and what it’s rated for. Companies that “upgrade” vehicles such as limo, or companies that stretch chassis for other reasons, and change the certification label have to make sure that every component is capable of the new rating.

Oh I get that, but too....
Using the same reasoning, the number given to loading is subjective as well, and one needs to be prudent with it.

For instance, let's say your truck payload max is 1000 pounds, and 999 pounds is OK, but 1001 pounds puts you in grave danger.

It can't be true, as such.

This might explain the 20% margin reasoning, which I am all for, however if a full tank of fuel puts you a pound over, and by the time you are back on the highway your already burned it.... well, you get my drift.

I am NOT advocating ignoring such data, just trying to keep it all in perspective and why we need to continue to weigh our rigs ....

Heck, a big chunk might be melted into the corner of the black tank, never to be flushed ever, and we just might need those 30 pounds of payload elsewhere ")

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

Oh I get that, but too....
Using the same reasoning, the number given to loading is subjective as well, and one needs to be prudent with it.

For instance, let's say your truck payload max is 1000 pounds, and 999 pounds is OK, but 1001 pounds puts you in grave danger.

It can't be true, as such.

This might explain the 20% margin reasoning, which I am all for, however if a full tank of fuel puts you a pound over, and by the time you are back on the highway your already burned it.... well, you get my drift.

I am NOT advocating ignoring such data, just trying to keep it all in perspective and why we need to continue to weigh our rigs ....

Heck, a big chunk might be melted into the corner of the black tank, never to be flushed ever, and we just might need those 30 pounds of payload elsewhere ")

Well the choice is yours on how you play games with the numbers. Well a pound or two over not going to make you instantly unsafe, likely not even a couple hundred pounds.
The big issue is in this “Not My Fault”, sue happy times we live, towing over any of your ratings puts you in a position to be sued, even if not cited by LEO, or not at fault.

You are fine right now, but if you are looking at a larger rig or a5th wheel, you likely will be looking at a bigger tow vehicle.

[wegone]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well the choice is yours on how you play games with the numbers. Well a pound or two over not going to make you instantly unsafe, likely not even a couple hundred pounds.
The big issue is in this “Not My Fault”, sue happy times we live, towing over any of your ratings puts you in a position to be sued, even if not cited by LEO, or not at fault.

You are fine right now, but if you are looking at a larger rig or a5th wheel, you likely will be looking at a bigger tow vehicle.

I totally agree with you, I am not trying to play games, just trying to keep it real, as in all engineering you have a "nominal" number.

I'd never go bigger, if anything, smaller, love the slides on either side, but miss rubbing up against the wife as she passes

We have tossed around going to 20-22 footer, as they design the more with less, is vastly improving and we are movers, we like covering new ground, not setting up another home for weeks in the same spot.

Folks have different likes and taste, which makes it all the more fun, wife likes filet mignon, I like a bone in rib eye, we can each chew our own fat, yet still share the mashed taters....

What that has to do with anything, I don't know

HAPPY 4th.... 20 years TODAY of my sobriety.

You'd not know it by reading my post tho.....

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by markcee

Yes to curb weight: GVWR - Sticker Payload Cap = Curb Weight (as it left the factory)

I was curious about the axle rating not agreeing myself, when I started looking at trucks. The explanation I found was that this allows for different loading scenarios. For instance, you could have a snow plow on the front end, greatly increasing front axle weight....which then must be accounted for when loading up on the rear. You still cannot load up both axles to their limit w/o exceeding GVWR.

If I'm understanding the comment regarding 'not agreeing with the Ford charts'. They never will. Payload capacities on the charts are typically for a base model vehicle. Any option added/removed from a particular trim level will impact this. Because of this, even though a particular truck model may have a 10K GVWR, each vehicle's 'sticker' payload will vary as it all depends on the curb weight, which is impacted by how many bells & whistles the specific truck was ordered with.

That sticker payload is obviously a dynamic figure that was only accurate when the truck left the assembly line. Available payload is always what your truck weighs at any given time, subtracted from (in your case) the 10K GVWR. Best to weigh the truck to see where you stand.

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

Oh I get that, but too....
Using the same reasoning, the number given to loading is subjective as well, and one needs to be prudent with it.

For instance, let's say your truck payload max is 1000 pounds, and 999 pounds is OK, but 1001 pounds puts you in grave danger.

It can't be true, as such.

This might explain the 20% margin reasoning, which I am all for, however if a full tank of fuel puts you a pound over, and by the time you are back on the highway your already burned it.... well, you get my drift.

I am NOT advocating ignoring such data, just trying to keep it all in perspective and why we need to continue to weigh our rigs ....

Heck, a big chunk might be melted into the corner of the black tank, never to be flushed ever, and we just might need those 30 pounds of payload elsewhere ")

Here's the issue I have with your reasoning. While I agree that 1 lb over gross won't lead to immediate failure, what will? Will 50 lbs? If not 50 lbs, then 500 lbs? Some very smart, highly paid engineers did a whole bunch of testing and calculations and came up with those numbers and a room full of attorneys reviewed them and approved them. I for one am not going to risk answering a shark in an attorney's suit the question "What makes you more qualified to determine the GVWR of your truck than the manufacturer"?

You are free to ponder that answer and I hope it's never posed to you. I'm not willing to take that risk.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Here's the issue I have with your reasoning. While I agree that 1 lb over gross won't lead to immediate failure, what will? Will 50 lbs? If not 50 lbs, then 500 lbs? Some very smart, highly paid engineers did a whole bunch of testing and calculations and came up with those numbers and a room full of attorneys reviewed them and approved them. I for one am not going to risk answering a shark in an attorney's suit the question "What makes you more qualified to determine the GVWR of your truck than the manufacturer"?

You are free to ponder that answer and I hope it's never posed to you. I'm not willing to take that risk.

Not to jump off track but how the heck does a manufacturer come up with cargo capacity? Do you think they fudge this number conservatively to pad a safety margin in? Is the cargo capacity computed based on the axle and tire ratings or is it the reverse? Just curious.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Not to jump off track but how the heck does a manufacturer come up with cargo capacity? Do you think they fudge this number conservatively to pad a safety margin in? Is the cargo capacity computed based on the axle and tire ratings or is it the reverse? Just curious.

Yes... No... Maybe... Ask the manufacturer and you'll likely get the same answer as all those before you that have asked: Our engineering team has accomplished lengthy and exhaustive testing on our products and have determined the ratings that provide a reliable, safe vehicle for consumers. You can be assured that our vehicles will provide you with safe, reliable service if operated within the ratings provided in your owner's manual. Happy Motoring in your new vehicle. Sincerely, Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Audi, Packard, American Motors, Fiat, Volvo and likely all the rest as well.....