AC and Blade vents

judieb68 · 03-18-2022, 06:57 PM

My 2022 Cougar 316RLS has main ac with the new Blade vents. I have very minimal air coming out of those vents.

I also have a ceiling assembly for my ac that has no divider, no vent diversion and no controls.

The ceiling assembly filter is very clean. I've had my RV 3 months used it many time and there isn't a speck of dust. This doesn't seem as though it's taking in any air.

Anyone know of owners manual for this Coleman Mach Q system. I would really like to understand how it operates.

wrvond · 03-19-2022, 08:59 AM

I'm not 100% positive, but I think I saw a YouTube video demonstrating that the blade vents can be screwed closed to reduce air flow.

Roper46 · 03-19-2022, 10:29 AM

Your new Cougar should have come with a zipper bag full of owner's manuals. If you have not found it check all the drawers, the bag is usually stuck in a drawer.

judieb68 · 03-20-2022, 12:24 PM

Found the bag, no AC manual.

wrvond · 03-23-2022, 07:25 AM

I went outside to look for the model number of my AC but got side tracked and forgot until I got back to my computer.
Here's a link to the airxcel website:
https://www.airxcel.com/rv/coleman-mach/service-support/where's-my-model-number

Once you know your model number you should be able to download the manuals for it. I need to do that as well.
I was looking at the blade vents and there are arrows indicating a direction to turn to increase or decrease air flow. I spun one both directions several turns but couldn't detect a difference or see anything different through the slots. There is a baffle on the inside that turns, but I couldn't see that it was blocking anything as it turned.

Nothappy · 07-16-2022, 12:32 PM

My 2022 Outback has blade system. Dealer added second ac unit. Now air blows from both ac , no thermostatic control when both ac blow at once How can their be 4 ducts in 80 s ft bed room and 4 ducts in rest of the 220 square foot living area. Flow feeds bath first, an ice cube, bedroom next, a freezer, and lastly the living area, barely cool Seems to me there should have been a split duct system if you added second ac. Did I waste my$$ on second ac. Just doesn’t make sense.Should be an easy way close of that area off!

**sourdough** · 07-16-2022, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nothappy

My 2022 Outback has blade system. Dealer added second ac unit. Now air blows from both ac , no thermostatic control when both ac blow at once How can their be 4 ducts in 80 s ft bed room and 4 ducts in rest of the 220 square foot living area. Flow feeds bath first, an ice cube, bedroom next, a freezer, and lastly the living area, barely cool Seems to me there should have been a split duct system if you added second ac. Did I waste my$$ on second ac. Just doesn’t make sense.Should be an easy way close of that area off!

First, welcome to the forum! Secondly, if you go to the upper left corner of the page and click on user cp you can fill out the signature portion with the year, make, model of your RV and tow vehicle then save. It makes answering questions much easier.

Since you have the blade system have you tried orienting the "blade" on the outlets to minimize airflow where you don't want it? You can also maximize it where you do want it.

If that doesn't/hasn't worked for you then I would suggest looking into new vents that allow you to shut them. I have 4 in the bedroom but removed the OE vents (not blade) and installed 2 that I could shut off. Also replaced the bathroom vent and it stays closed unless it gets to about 102 or so.

Looking at your profile it says you have a 330RL? If so you did not waste money on a 2nd A/C, a single unit will not cool that size trailer in hot weather. I don't understand the comment about "no thermostat"; is the 2nd unit vented/unvented? Is there a thermostat in the bedroom or roof controlled?

Nothappy · 07-17-2022, 04:19 AM

My point with the thermostat is that how can you have 2 units cooling one room. Example, if the unvented unit satisfies, the main unit can keep on cooling, so you have no control in the bedroom. I experimented by taping over the ducts, no help there. Just doesn’t seem to increase airflow. I believe that the ducting system should have been split so you could block off the flow to the bedroom should a second AC be added. I do like your idea about installing new closable vents. Having been an hvac contractor, this is simply a poor design. Thanks for your input

**JRTJH** · 07-17-2022, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nothappy

My point with the thermostat is that how can you have 2 units cooling one room. Example, if the unvented unit satisfies, the main unit can keep on cooling, so you have no control in the bedroom. I experimented by taping over the ducts, no help there. Just doesn’t seem to increase airflow. I believe that the ducting system should have been split so you could block off the flow to the bedroom should a second AC be added. I do like your idea about installing new closable vents. Having been an hvac contractor, this is simply a poor design. Thanks for your input

You might want to do a thorough inspection of your ceiling ducting system. From what you're saying, if I read it correctly, even when you close vents in the forward section of the trailer, the air velocity in the ducting does not increase at the other, open vents ???? If so, my first impression would be an open duct that's allowing all the air volume to escape the ducting runs and "dump into the attic space".... I've seen far more than my "fair share" of "open end runs on the ceiling ducting runs"..... I use flexible closed cell foam (similar to pool noodles) to close off the space at the end of the duct run, just beyond the last vent opening. Also, remove the vent outlet covers to make sure all the ducting is properly sealed at the outlets. I can't remember the last time I pulled a outlet cover and found "properly taped and sealed ducting" from the factory.....

Any (and all) the air pressure will be shunted to the least resistance as soon as you start closing vent openings. If your ducting is not properly sealed, you're losing cold air to the attic space. That, in itself is a potential problem as cold air "attracts condensation" which can mean "wet insulation in the attic space and/or mold formation from the moisture.....

Do a thorough duct run inspection as a part of your "I'm frustrated that it's not working correctly" agenda......

Nothappy · 07-17-2022, 08:06 AM

Would not thought this to be an issue in a new unit.want to find out if duct system is split or one long run.Seems to me when second AC was installed, something should have been done to separate the zones? How can 2 ac units feed the same area! Maybe the answer is to install new outlets that open and close.very poor design

**JRTJH** · 07-17-2022, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nothappy

Would not thought this to be an issue in a new unit.want to find out if duct system is split or one long run.Seems to me when second AC was installed, something should have been done to separate the zones? How can 2 ac units feed the same area! Maybe the answer is to install new outlets that open and close.very poor design

It's NOT a poor design, just one that you don't understand how it functions...

Keystone has been building trailers with air conditioning ductwork for longer than you'd imagine. While there are problems with individual units (nothing is ever completely without manufacturing problems), just because someone installed an air conditioner in your unit and it doesn't work the way you imagined it would, doesn't mean that Keystone designed, engineered and built "EVERY TRAILER" to substandard criteria.

There are two types of ducting in Keystone trailers. one type does "compete when two units are connected to the same ducting" but the other is specifically designed to provide "symbyotic air delivery" with one or both units providing cool air. In other words, they "enhance each other"... It's called the "racetrack air delivery system" and it's been around in RV's for about 10 years now.

So, depending on what ducting system is in YOUR RV and how the installer at your dealership connected (or didn't connect) the new unit to the existing ductwork, it very likely is NOT Keystone, but rather your "technician" that created the issues you are having....

I'm NOT saying or suggesting that Keystone doesn't make mistakes, but rather that "mistakes are not exclusive to Keystone".....

Nothappy · 07-17-2022, 11:12 AM

John, I AM trying to find out how my system works.you say “ a competing system!Show me a room in a residence that has a thermostat in it, that is fed by 2 ac,s. Explain to me how there 4 ducts in bedroom 80 sq ft. And 4 ducts in living area, 220 sq ft, how is that balanced. What I expected when I bought second ac, was two separate zones. The second ac would be better in the living area. Seems to me that with a little thought,the ducting could have been split,so that with the addition of a second ac,there would be zones! I am calling keystone in the morning to find out just how this system is laid out,

**JRTJH** · 07-17-2022, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nothappy

John, I AM trying to find out how my system works.you say “ a competing system!Show me a room in a residence that has a thermostat in it, that is fed by 2 ac,s. Explain to me how there 4 ducts in bedroom 80 sq ft. And 4 ducts in living area, 220 sq ft, how is that balanced. What I expected when I bought second ac, was two separate zones. The second ac would be better in the living area. Seems to me that with a little thought,the ducting could have been split,so that with the addition of a second ac,there would be zones! I am calling keystone in the morning to find out just how this system is laid out,

First, you need to determine which type of ducting system is in your trailer. Is it "S" shaped or "Racetrack" or is it some other type of ducting layout? Next, did your dealer install a second air conditioner to augment the existing ductwork or did they "wing it and stick what they had in stock into the roof vent" ?????

Call Keystone if you want but it's likely to be an "epic waste of time", because their first recommendation will be for you to contact the dealership where you bought the trailer, discuss what THEY did with your "dealer installed components" and have them contact Keystone to discuss any issues that they can't resolve.

If you think about it logically, Keystone doesn't know what the heck the dealership did and they certainly won't "agree to fix what's wrong" until they know whether the dealer screwed up or whether there may be a warranty issue with YOUR ducting. Either way, the "phone lady at Keystone" won't commit to anything without having a complete inspection and report by your dealership....

In the meantime, if you can determine which ducting system is installed in your trailer by Keystone and whether the dealer installed a unit that incorporates to enhance that system or if they installed something that won't work the way Keystone designed the ducting.....

At this point, there's no telling what the dealer installed on your roof and even if it's the correct type to tie into the ducting or if it's possibly the wrong unit and will never work with your trailer's ducting.

Nothappy · 07-17-2022, 11:41 AM

I do agree I have found both dealer and manufacture to be less than stellar. The dealer installed a non ducted unit. What I’m asking is there simple way to cut off that side of the system on the feed side or do I have to block all four vents. Pardon my frustration,but this unit has had to have the GE fridge replaced, trap came off the kitchen sink, window leaks, and the dinnette table losing its finish. Dealer threw me to the curb as soon as I walked out of the building and Keystone not much better

**JRTJH** · 07-17-2022, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nothappy

I do agree I have found both dealer and manufacture to be less than stellar. The dealer installed a non ducted unit. What I’m asking is there simple way to cut off that side of the system on the feed side or do I have to block all four vents. Pardon my frustration,but this unit has had to have the GE fridge replaced, trap came off the kitchen sink, window leaks, and the dinnette table losing its finish. Dealer threw me to the curb as soon as I walked out of the building and Keystone not much better

Unless you agreed to installing a cheaper unit with limited function, you have been "screwed by the dealer" who installed the cheapest A/C unit with the least amount of installation time and that does the "bare minimum to work with the way Keystone designed your trailer's ducting system"....

Your trailer's ducting system is designed to have complete control of the HVAC system from the In-Command console with temperature sensors located in multiple places inside the trailer. The two units are intended to work together, through the In-Command console to control temperatures evenly throughout the trailer.

It looks like your dealer bypassed the capabilities of the system and stuck a cheap "ceiling dump unit" in the bedroom. If so, he didn't do you any favors and it's NOT the unit Keystone intended to be installed as a part of the "optional second A/C unit" with an OEM retail price of $893. https://www.keystonerv.com/build-my-...trailers/330RL

This is one that you can't "blame on Keystone". It's like blaming Ford because the dealer installed "tint film on the windows that you can't see through"... Your problem is NOT a Keystone issue but a "dealer shortcut issue"....

Can you modify your ducting so the system your dealer installed will "sort of work".... Yes you can, but I'd ask, "WHY" ????? Wouldn't it be better to have the correct air conditioner, the correct ceiling shroud and the correct/enhanced cooling capacity that the "Keystone designed system" provides ????

ADDED: If you start "cutting off that side of the ducting" type modifications, what you're eventually going to wind up with is two separate A/C systems, one for the front of the trailer and one for the main cabin. Then, in moderate temperatures, you're going to have to run both units just to keep the bedroom and the bath "livable"... That's going to mean increased electricity use as well as limited ability to dry camp or to be comfortable with a small generator or in a 30 amp campsite. You'll be "cutting off your nose to spite your face" is you do settle for "hacking up the ducting so it "sort of works".... I'd strongly recommend having the dealer fix it the way it's supposed to work with the "factory optioned racetrack system, incorporated into the In-Command and cooling the entire trailer with either unit, or both on hot days.

**sourdough** · 07-17-2022, 03:49 PM

Here are some links;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Svb0HUycf4

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/o...oorplans/330RL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yasE7IFnbNg

The first link is to an explanation of the racetrack air conditionings system. Short and not much good but.... The second is the Keystone page for your trailer. Note about 2/3 way down it specifies you have the racetrack system. The 3rd is an explanation of the "blade" system you have. From watching it I don't like it but you now have it.

A couple of thoughts; if you have a "non ducted" A/C installed someone messed up. It needs to be ducted. As you see in one of those illustrations showing a vent up front, that would be the A/C. It should be vented into those ducts. If the dealer did you wrong you need to have the owner/GM front and center in front of you.

You don't want 2 "zones" with both units working independently. If they did you would barely use the bedroom unit and the main cabin would always be warm in hot weather. You want the extra airflow and cooling that the combined system provides throughout the entire camper. The ducts are long and they are barely insulated. In hot weather the ducts want to stay warm and the further the cold air travels, and the less volume, the warmer it becomes. The trick IMO for your situation is to use vents that are adjustable and can be closed. It makes a big difference. But before that;

Find out what kind of unit you have it really needs to be a ducted unit. Make the dealer make it right if they zipped you. Find out if regular replacement vents that are adjustable will fit inside those blade inserts.

Nothappy · 07-18-2022, 09:16 AM

Thank you all. Seems to my my dealer did me wrong.They installed a non ducted unit where a ducted one should have been used. My experience with my dealer has been a disaster from the start. They tried to sell 20 yrs of insurance warranty for. $7000 Included in my loan. Didn’t want or need a loan. They don’t return phone calls, the few techs I’ve talked to have no clue.
I will go at them again, I’m retired, I have the time.
Just wanted to thank you all for helping me understand what I believe to be the true problem. Morel of the story, never buy from the big guys, Mom and Pop shops are better! I’d include the dealers name but it probably would not be allowed.

TXiceman · 10-01-2023, 06:52 PM

That Blade diffuser is a joke. I wound up cutting the blade off to get better air flow. Evidently their PhD engineer in fluid flow has never been in and RV.

Ken

Nothappy · 10-02-2023, 04:31 AM

I ended up pulling all the blade vents out. The ac in the bedroom has vents on it,that open and close. When you close the vent it differs the air into the duct system. I ended up getting all new adjustable vents. Now I can’t differ the air where I want it, and have much better flow. Blade system is a joke, just like Keystone and their products!

tallen · 10-02-2023, 05:44 AM

If you pulled out the blade system vents, what did you put back in their place? Did you have to replace the other part that the blade diffuser pops into? Do you have a of what you bought? I am asking b/c I have same system and would love to put in different vents, but have been having a hard time finding ones that will pop into the existing.

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