Max turn technology. ? With a short bed

PauliWalnuts · 07-29-2022, 04:01 PM

I have a very specific question that I would like answered. I just read through a 5 page thread that attempted to answer the same question. That question is

Do you need a slider hitch to tow with a keystone 5er with Max Turn Technology without a slider hitch? Can you get close to 90 degrees? I realize that getting to 90 degrees is very hard on suspension and would never get to that point but also don't want to inadvertently damage the RV and/or truck because I was in a tight spot and went over the limit.

THIS IS NOT A WEIGHT DISCUSSION IT IS A CLEARANCE DISCUSSION. Please stay on topic so that i and others can learn about what hitches and/or pin boxes may be necessary.

**sourdough** · 07-29-2022, 04:19 PM

I don't know what the 5 page thread was about but every truck, truck bed and hitch will vary. You seem to be looking for a black/white, quick answer if a truck can make a 90 degree turn and not damage something....maybe, maybe not depending on truck, trailer, hitch etc. If you are thinking you're going to be turning tight enough to worry about truck cab, bed rail clearances etc. while making tight turns you might want to look into better routing or ??

I use an Andersen in a short bed truck with zero problems. It is not a slider and I don't/wouldn't want one. I don't concern myself with the ability to push my trailer sideways at 90 degrees to see which suspension component breaks. I've hooked up and pushed it as far as I want to and about 75-80 degrees my tires start pushing dirt, not turning (on dirt). Now, what was that TV and pin weight?

PauliWalnuts · 07-29-2022, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

I don't know what the 5 page thread was about but every truck, truck bed and hitch will vary. You seem to be looking for a black/white, quick answer if a truck can make a 90 degree turn and not damage something....maybe, maybe not depending on truck, trailer, hitch etc. If you are thinking you're going to be turning tight enough to worry about truck cab, bed rail clearances etc. while making tight turns you might want to look into better routing or ??

I use an Andersen in a short bed truck with zero problems. It is not a slider and I don't/wouldn't want one. I don't concern myself with the ability to push my trailer sideways at 90 degrees to see which suspension component breaks. I've hooked up and pushed it as far as I want to and about 75-80 degrees my tires start pushing dirt, not turning (on dirt). Now, what was that TV and pin weight?

It was a thread that was about a year ago and ultimately closed. It is a Ford F250. Considering a couple Keystones with the Max Turn Technology. You read or talk to some hitch people and they swear if you have a short bed you either need a slider hitch or a rotating pin box. I don't want either. I want to be able to take the hitch out of the bed without requiring a hoist. I am considering a BW Companion that comes in 2 pieces that are about 75 lbs each which I can manage. I don't want the rotating pin box because they are heavy and might have warranty issues if there is a frame failure. I am also leery of the light weight hitches such as the anderson because most require a goose ball and from what I understand that would void the frame warranty.

If I can get 75 or 80 degrees that should be good hell anything over 60 should be good. I have a 30 ft travel trailer and have no issues and you can't get that far with the TT so shouldn't be an issue.

**sourdough** · 07-29-2022, 04:51 PM

As for the warranty issue have you looked into a Reese GooseBox? I've read different things about it and clearances and a short bed might pose a problem but I don't know. Maybe someone with one will chime in. If my Andersen wasn't within the time frame for warranty coverage I would have looked at that, the Companion or Demco Recon.

**chuckster57** · 07-29-2022, 05:37 PM

I have a saying that has worked very well in many decisions- it’s better to have it and never need it than to need it and not have it.

I have always had long beds so turning/clearance has never been an issue. As a tech I have seen lots of short beds with different types of hitches. What I would do is find the center line of your bed and 2” in front of the rear axle as that is the most common spot for the kingpin.

Measure from that point to the cab and corners. Then when you find a potential fifth wheel, take the tape and hold it on the king pin and simply walk and see if it will hit.

PauliWalnuts · 07-29-2022, 06:33 PM

I think I have 3 options

1. Reese Goosebox
Pros
I can install a BW turnover ball and use a 4" extender and from what i can
tell from other posters will give me 80+ degree turning which is more than
I would prob feel comfortable with. Also provides some cushion for
Chucking as well as empty bed with no adaptor/hitch, easy to get clean bed
Easier install as I don't need to take the bed off
Cons
More difficult to connect. I would need to add a bed camera or have a
spotter. You would also need to have an air compresser to pump it up

2. BW Companion hitch with factory puck system
Pros
BW is the standard in hitches. I can get it out easily as it breaks down
to 2 pieces ~75 lbs each. Easier connection.
Cons
Have to remove bed to install puck system. Might not get full 80+ degree
maneuverability, but I could add a swivel hitch, but those are expensive.
3. Slider Hitch
Pros
Will provide full 90 degree turn maneuverability. Can instaall turnover
ball which won't require bed removal
Cons
Very heavy requiring a hoist to remove from the truck to get clean bed

I am leaning toward option 2. Seems like the most secure and is tried and true. The only issue is if I can't get the maneuverability I will need to add a rotating hitch, but I think I will be good. I will do the measurements once we decide which 5er to get. I just want to make sure what I want before i sign, I don't want some RV salesman telling me what I want.

James R Moneypenny · 08-04-2022, 07:52 AM

I have had 2016 and 2022 F-250's and a 2017 35' Keystone Avalanche. Use the Anderson hitch. Never had a problem backing up. Just keep an eye on the camper when you are backing up. Making sure your camper is high enough above the sides of the truck is probably a more likely concern. This issue can be aggravated if the road bed is very uneven.

LI Guy · 08-04-2022, 07:35 AM

Same here..no probs with Andersen hitch in my short bed Ram

RollaMo · 07-29-2022, 06:51 PM

This is one of those questions where you will never get a definite yes or no answer.

I have never really understood the whole 90 degree turn requirement that some want.
With a bumper pull trailer you can't even come close to that, so why would it be needed in with 5er?

I have a 2019 GMC 2500 double cab ( 6 1/2 ft bed).
Pulling a 2022 Cougar half ton 24RDS.
Using a B&W companion hitch.

I haven't had any issues of even getting close to any clearance issues.
Of course I haven't really tried a 90 degree turn, but then again I don't see the need for it either.
I can turn it as sharp as I ever need without issues.

jsb5717 · 07-29-2022, 08:18 PM

I’ve towed 5ers with short bed trucks for well over 20 years. Earlier 5ers didn’t have the tight turn caps on them. Still, I’ve never hit my truck in tight turns.

The real issue is you, your ability, and your confidence. The fact is that it is possible to hit the cab of a short bed truck using a standard hitch. It’s up to you to pay attention and know your limits. You don’t need a slider to tow successfully. If you want a stronger guarantee that you won’t ever hit then get the slider.

I have a B&W turnover ball and use a Demco Recon hitch. I have plenty of turning ability.

sierraman68 · 07-29-2022, 09:34 PM

I have a 2020 Ford F250 short bed and use the Demo Recon with zero issues. I will say that I am always aware of clearance between the cab and the 5er while backing up and I have yet to be in a situation that even begins to concern me. The Recon mounts over a goose ball and is a bit lighter weight than the BW Companion but still has a 21K towing capacity. It is very easy to seperate into two parts for installation and removal. I am glad I did not spend the money on or add the extra weight of a slider.

PauliWalnuts · 07-30-2022, 02:27 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I am still going to do some measurements but I think I am going to go with the factory puck system and the BW Companion, but will also look at the Demco Recon. I actually had only looked at their slider.

bsmith0404 · 07-30-2022, 07:02 AM

I have the factory puck system with a GM truck. Currently use the Pullrite 2600 for my 5th wheel, but have pulled several others using a Curt hitch that connects into the pucks with a husky adapter. Have never hit the cab and have been in some pretty tight turns. Is it possible, I would say it is, but just need to keep an eye on it. I towed older 5ers with a standard hitch on rails for several years and never hit the cab. I’ve also seen people hit the cab using an Andersen. Didn’t quite understand that since it give the additional offset, they must have really been cutting it short.

HouseMouse · 07-30-2022, 07:10 AM

Something different...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpwH9WeVEfU

jasin1 · 07-30-2022, 07:12 AM

this is with a goosebox and ram 6 foot bed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-7Xu7S1nA8

Camping family · 07-30-2022, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PauliWalnuts

I have a very specific question that I would like answered. I just read through a 5 page thread that attempted to answer the same question. That question is

Do you need a slider hitch to tow with a keystone 5er with Max Turn Technology without a slider hitch? Can you get close to 90 degrees? I realize that getting to 90 degrees is very hard on suspension and would never get to that point but also don't want to inadvertently damage the RV and/or truck because I was in a tight spot and went over the limit.

THIS IS NOT A WEIGHT DISCUSSION IT IS A CLEARANCE DISCUSSION. Please stay on topic so that i and others can learn about what hitches and/or pin boxes may be necessary.

I have a short bed with a slider pull right. Reason I got the slider is for pice of mind. If needed I have it if never used while I don’t worry have it if needed. One of those things I would rather have and not need then need and not have.

bsmith0404 · 07-30-2022, 07:31 AM

I recently (about two months ago) installed a B&W turnover ball in a 2021 F250, did. It have to pull the box. Some of the bolts were difficult, but I didn’t see a reason to pull the box to do it. Install was about 3 hours. It helps to have an extra set of hands as well.

jasin1 · 07-30-2022, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I recently (about two months ago) installed a B&W turnover ball in a 2021 F250, did. It have to pull the box. Some of the bolts were difficult, but I didn’t see a reason to pull the box to do it. Install was about 3 hours. It helps to have an extra set of hands as well.

maybe they pull the bed to make the trailer wiring easier along with the turnover ball..i guess if your in a shop and have all the equipment it’s easier but for a regular truck owner without that it can still be done…also easier to justify the high labor cost when you say you have to remove the bed

bsmith0404 · 07-30-2022, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasin1

maybe they pull the bed to make the trailer wiring easier along with the turnover ball..i guess if your in a shop and have all the equipment it’s easier but for a regular truck owner without that it can still be done…also easier to justify the high labor cost when you say you have to remove the bed

Installing the in bed plug was really easy, Ford has the connections already wired in, just have to cut the hole and drop the wires down and connect them, then route the extra wire up along the frame and zip tie it. That’s a 15 min job. I’m with you on the labor part. I know the service department at the dealership where I worked told customers the bed had to be removed, never saw a tech remove a bed to install the hitch.

peanut · 07-30-2022, 08:04 AM

After reading all of your comments there are many open questions. First of all, you never have said which truck you have/will have. Makes a difference.

Secondly, your leaning towards the B&W Companion suggests you will be using a gooseneck ball. But you mention installing an OEM puck system kit. Something like this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/reh-30158-52?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpqPAwP2g-QIVxR6tBh3k8QPtEAQYASABEgIxaPD_BwE ? ? ?
If you will be using a gooseball why go to the expense of installing a complete puck system kit? A B&W underbed turnover ball hitch like this (this one for a late model F-350 - available for others) :
https://www.bwtrailerhitches.com/kits/gnrk1116
Cheaper and no need to remove the bed. In fact, many install these themselves in their driveway with no problem. You could still use the Companion hitch.

You say you don't want to change the king pin by adding anything that could void a warranty so you think there are only three options. Actually there are more. The main ones are:

1. Reese goosebox: https://www.reeseprod.com/products/pin-boxes/goose-box
2. B&W Companion: https://www.bwtrailerhitches.com/pro...th-wheel-hitch
3. Demco Recon: https://www.demco-products.com/rv-to...k-ball-mount-1
4. Blue Ox: https://www.blueox.com/5th-wheel-hitches/
5. Pullrite #3900 (weighs less than the Companion): https://www.pullrite.com/3900

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nWNxq3lvmc

- - start watching at the 6:24 time
6. Curt Crosswing. Adds a component to the pin box but, since it is advertised by Lippert, I (a s s)ume it wouldn't void the Lippert warranty. Gooseball version "coming soon": https://store.lci1.com/all-about-cro...SAAEgL1JfD_BwE

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