New Guy

[Wilks]

Hello…..wife and I started camping about 4 years ago…bought a new Passport 216RD in 2019 has been a great first camper but we’ll be leveling up to a larger camper soon. We really like the floor plan of the Cougar 25 RDS….hopefully be pulling the trigger in a year or so.

Good to be here and have already used the resources here to find an answer concerning the valves at my water heater.

Looking forward to contributing when I can.

Clif

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum

Before you start looking, make sure you have enough tow vehicle. “Tow rating” is a fairytale.

[spicercars]

Welcome from northern MN.

[Wilks]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Welcome to the forum

Before you start looking, make sure you have enough tow vehicle. “Tow rating” is a fairytale.

I was originally thinking Sierra 1500 with max tow package but after reading a little here am open to suggestions...GMC guy here so it'll be some version of that.



thanks for the reply

[CrazyCain]

Welcome from SE Michigan

[dutchmensport]

Welcome and good luck in your search for trailer and tow vehicle. Just a tip: Get the biggest truck you can possibly get. In the future, when you change campers again, you'll never, ever have to worry about the trucks ability to tow a newer larger trailer. So often times, we all make baby steps until we finally arrive at what we should have just started out with in the beginning and could have saved us a lot of money. Consider the long-haul costs, over the next 10 - 15 years at what you are purchasing when you make those baby steps. Getting bigger, more powerful, may cost you more up front, but in the long run, will save you a small fortune over those following 10-15 years or beyond.

[jxnbbl]

+1 on the biggest truck you can get in your budget....I keep getting emails from the dealer to trade in my ram 2500 to replace it with a 2500...won't happen!

[Gegrad]

Welcome from Pennsylvania!

[Gary R.]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

As others said, give serious thought to getting the most truck you can to be ready for what the future might hold.

Have fun and travel safe!

[Wilks]

thanks for all the welcomes and advice...still not sure on the "biggest truck I can get" advice...this next camper will be it for the wife and I so we won't be going bigger. My truck is my daily (when i need to...retired) so not a fan of the ride (2500-3500) or maintaining a diesel considering we're not hauling all the time. I'm a trade driver (pick up and delivery) for a local GMC/Chevy dealer so I'm completely aware in how different platforms and motors drive.


Leaning toward a 2019-20 GMC Denali 1500 w/6.2L motor at the moment....we'll see as I acquire more real world info...thanks again.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Wilks

thanks for all the welcomes and advice...still not sure on the "biggest truck I can get" advice...this next camper will be it for the wife and I so we won't be going bigger. My truck is my daily (when i need to...retired) so not a fan of the ride (2500-3500) or maintaining a diesel considering we're not hauling all the time. I'm a trade driver (pick up and delivery) for a local GMC/Chevy dealer so I'm completely aware in how different platforms and motors drive.


Leaning toward a 2019-20 GMC Denali 1500 w/6.2L motor at the moment....we'll see as I acquire more real world info...thanks again.

The "biggest truck you can get" comes in for those not knowing what their RVing future may hold for them. If you know the 25RDS is the last one then predicate the truck on that. That being said;

The Denali is pretty tricked out and the 6.2 has some pretty good numbers for the size of trailer you are looking at BUT it is hampered by a 6 speed tranny (last I checked) whereas the other brands are offering 8 and 10 speeds - a very big difference and drags the towing ability of the 6.2 down in the real world.

Also the Denali package is going to hurt your payload on a 1/2 ton. The 25RDS has a gvwr of 8800lbs. and is right at 30' long - it's really more than a 1/2 ton should be carrying safely - btdt. Those numbers would equate to 1144lbs. tongue weight at gvwr. Since you are retired, and I'm assuming looking forward to fun, relaxing times - that's not how that rig will treat you, you will be wore out at the end of a 4hr. drive. There is NO comparison between pulling a trailer that size with a HD truck and a 1/2 ton - btdt too.

Gas vs diesel? You don't need diesel with that trailer if it's all you're going to have going forward. You WILL want a truck with more than a 6 speed tranny to avoid those big drop offs between gears - btdt again. The new gas engine and tranny combos put out numbers similar to diesels of a few years back so they are a viable option, particularly coupled with the new electronic and mechanical advances they've made.

1/2 ton vs HD? Your post sounds like I did several years ago. I used my 1/2 ton all the time for most everything because I like trucks. I would not hear of going to a HD truck and get that "rough" ride etc. When it became obvious that my towing experience was not all that I wanted it to be, and the safety of DW began to weigh on me every minute of every trip, I decided to change. Even with airbags, LT tires, Bistein shocks and a HD Hellwig anti sway bar the 1/2 ton couldn't hold a candle to the abilities and feel of the HD truck. They do ride a bit harsher but not much and definitely not a consideration vs the added towing stability and safety they provide. I just air my tires down when not towing and it's very difficult to discern the rides between the two.

Those are my real life examples, experiences and thoughts. Look at a Denali 1/2 ton and see what that payload is. If it is less than 2500 or so go with a HD truck - you will be very thankful you did. Again, I like my trucks and drive it more than my SUV. Bought both new (within 2 mos. of each other) and my truck has 2 1/2 times as many miles as the SUV. For towing purposes, which you have to consider daily driver or not, the HD truck is the hands down best.

Edit: I forgot to add on the GM 6.2, it only comes with a 3.73 rear axle ratio so that combined with a 6 speed tranny with a big load and gas engine will make for some awkward towing moments.

[NMRandy]

And the brakes are so much better on a HD truck

[Kirk's Keystone Outback.]

I drove a Dodge 2500 HD Gas for a week while in New Jersey a couple years and it was rough. Talk about getting beat up. I thought my F250 was gonna be that way too, and glad it isnt. The F250 is way smoother of a ride and could be a daily driver. I know you're a GM guy, but sharing ride differences, IMO.

[Wilks]

Appreciate the discussions and the time it takes to type these posts out. While I can't see that trailer ever weighing the max of 8800 I certainly could see it going 7500 with a hitch weight of 950 (that would be almost half of the payload right there).

I was really hoping a half would work out because I have one right now and wouldn't have to purchase the camper and a truck right away. lol

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Wilks

Appreciate the discussions and the time it takes to type these posts out. While I can't see that trailer ever weighing the max of 8800 I certainly could see it going 7500 with a hitch weight of 950 (that would be almost half of the payload right there).

I was really hoping a half would work out because I have one right now and wouldn't have to purchase the camper and a truck right away. lol

There's only one way to KNOW, that's by scaling it. Like most folks when they get older RVs suffer from "weight creep". Over time folks tend to "kneed" stuff, buy or add it from home and before you know it the weight has accumulated.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Wilks

Appreciate the discussions and the time it takes to type these posts out. While I can't see that trailer ever weighing the max of 8800 I certainly could see it going 7500 with a hitch weight of 950 (that would be almost half of the payload right there).

I was really hoping a half would work out because I have one right now and wouldn't have to purchase the camper and a truck right away. lol

If you're thinking a scaled weight of the trailer at 7500lbs. I think that is very optimistic. That's only 1100lbs. of stuff in the trailer. That sounds like a lot but once retired, traveling to new places, spending more time in the RV and wanting it to be more like a "living" experience vs a "camping" (do without) experience...that number will climb. Also remember that at some point, whether you intended to or not, you will have some fluids in those tanks for some reason while hitched up. I used to say I wouldn't do that and made a year or two (maybe) before a time came that I needed to tow with fluids in the tanks..and it's happened since. That trailer has 2381lbs. of cargo capacity. Will you use it all? Hopefully not - but it would be easy if you run with fluids in the tanks. If you don't carry that much that's good...it leaves you some safety margin, not only for the trailer but the truck as well.

In addition to the above realize that once retired and trying to go places and do more things you will want to carry additional gear that you don't throw in for a week/weekend trip. Much of that will go in the bed of the truck and every pound comes off that payload plus the 100 or so lbs. for the wdh with 4 point sway which you want for a trailer that heavy. Remember that having excess carrying capacity (payload) is a very good thing; running on the edge, picking and choosing what to leave behind on a trip, scaling after shuffling gear every time....none of that is fun. Living on the edge and pushing the envelope in retirement is not fun or safe IMO (btdt too). JMO/YMMV

[Wilks]

I've gotta be honest I have no idea how youse guys are getting 1000lbs and over in additional weight...we NEVER travel with water and the biggest things we carry are our folding ebike (65lbs) and our 2 burner Blackstone which with the metal cover probably weighs 40bs. Ther's absolutely no way I can see getting to 1000 extra lbs. in additional weight.


I am retired and even when we travel longer distances we aren't adding anywhere near that kind of weight. I have decided to go 3/4 ton tho.....I checked the payload on my current ruck and it's only 1659 nowhere near enough.


thanks for all discussion points.

[sourdough]

I always said I would never travel with water and never did. But, there came a time when conditions aligned (weather, travel times etc.) that dumping wasn't really an option AND I had the surplus payload capacity in both the truck and trailer to handle it so it wasn't an issue. Once you get going good the odds of that situation coming up is going to rise and you want to have the available payload to do it.

Weight is easy to gain, hard to get rid of. My tool boxes in the trailer probably weigh 40-45lbs and the one in the truck probably 50, spare parts bin maybe 30+, smoker 65, propane tank almost 40 - and that's just starting. Mixers, blenders, food processors, instant pots, coffee makers, pressure cookers, panini presses, cookware, rugs, electronic gear, boots, DW's shoes, extra battery, towels, toiletries, fans, heaters, curling irons and CLOTHES - the list is virtually endless. Even the grandgirls inflatable rubber duckie from past years.... And when you pack clothes for 3 seasons in one trip they weigh a LOT. I carry about 1600lbs. in mine give or take depending on the trip. And yes, that is a lot of stuff, some of which I use nearly every day, some very seldom and some won't be used unless something breaks. Then there's the rubber duckies, the muffy slippers given as Christmas presents, DW's knitting and crocheting...you get the drift.

Good choice on going with the 3/4, it's the logical solution to me. It's sort of a mid step to a one ton but if you are sure you're never going bigger than the 25rds it will be fine. My 3/4 had a 3190lb. payload (6.4L gas). Keep those things I mentioned about that GM 6.2 drivetrain in mind. You can go up with a bigger truck and more payload but if the engine output, 6 speed tranny and 3.73 ratio don't change any extra weight just makes it harder for that combo to dig out of those holes in the tranny ratios. It will do OK - I've pulled a heavier trailer with 6 speed and 3.73, it's just not nearly as good or responsive as they are with the higher speed trannys and lower ratio rear end (example 4.10). Good luck on the hunt.

[Wilks]

Thanks for all the real world info I really do appreciate the knowledge. I actually wish that diesel fuel prices would come down and I wasn't so hesitant about maintenance and failure points.

Thanks again

[sourdough]

Like I mentioned earlier, you don't need a diesel with the trailer you mentioned. If thinking bigger trailer the diesel might be a better option at some point, which I am very close to but I'm far heavier than the trailer you are contemplating.

I may get a diesel next go round, not because I have to have one, but just "because" I suppose. I've never wanted or needed one personally. I worked for a company that had their own fleet dept. and I knew all the mechanics well and everyone of them disliked the diesels due to mtce. issues. Eventually they all worked for me and they all felt the same way. I drove them for work (loads mandated them) and didn't like them - but they had grunt. Those mechanic's conversations still ring in my ears when I think of one and then with diesel anywhere from $1-2 gal. higher and the catastrophic failures they can have....why would I subject myself to that possibility? My next truck will probably be my last towing truck so figure what the heck? Keep in mind that the diesel will take about 6-800 lbs. off your payload depending on configuration, transmission etc.