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Old 10-01-2019, 10:50 AM   #1
MagnumP45
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Interested in a Passport 2670BH

Hi everyone,

My wife and I are interested in buying our first TT to go camping with our two daughters (7 and 9). The towing capability of my TV is 7000lbs. After lots of research, I think we have settled on the Passport 2670BH. I really like this model for the double bunks, full size queen (i'm 6'3" tall), outdoor kitchen, dinette, and the couch. I would like to find a slightly used 2018 or 2019 at a discounted price between now and the end of the year. My thinking is that folks will start to sell theirs when the weather gets colder, or dealerships that have used ones in stock will try to move them at cheaper prices. Is my reasoning sound? Do TTs sell for less in late fall and winter?

One thing I've noticed though, is that I don't see a lot of them for sale. I'm not sure if it is because that model isn't sold a lot, or that folks like them and hold on to them. I'm sure that may affect my ability to get a great deal.

Also, I would love any feedback (positive or negative) with the 2670BH. Any particular concerns with this model, or things to look for specifically when buying this TT used?

Btw, I live in the Nashville, TN area. If anyone has a recommendation for a dealer you trust within a reasonable driving distance please let me know.

Thanks in advance for your comments.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:45 AM   #2
JRTJH
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The trailer you're looking at has a 7000 pound GVW and your "maximum towing capacity is 7000 pounds. Without knowing anything else about your tow vehicle, it's already looking like you'll be "over-trailered" with that rig.

It's imperative that you also consider the vehicle wheelbase, front/rear axle maximum capacity, the weight of all passengers and cargo that will be in the tow vehicle as well as the GVWR, GCWR, receiver capacity and so much more.

Just to start, most people recommend at least a 10% reserve capacity in all categories, many recommend a 15% and some recommend a 20% reserve.

Using those recommendations, then the maximum "safe recommended trailer weight" would be 6300 (10% reserve) or 5950 (15% reserve).

Considering your vehicle, is the receiver rated to carry the tongue weight and trailer weight? Many vehicles are "rated for a maximum trailer capacity" based on optional equipment that may not be installed on a specific vehicle.

I'd urge you to post the "vehicle specifics" for your tow vehicle, your family size and anticipated cargo. That would provide information with which members could give you specifics about your tow vehicle and what to expect based on how you'll be using it, not based on an "advertising brochure that doesn't consider anything but selling more trucks than the competition"...

ADDED: The type of tow vehicle is probably more important than the maximum tow rating. As an example, a Honda Pilot with a 111" wheelbase and a 7000 pound trailer rating would provide a significantly different tow experience than a F150 with a 141" wheelbase with the same 7000 pound maximum trailer rating. The Passport you're looking at is nearly 31' long. That's an "enormous sail" to put behind a small, barely acceptable rating tow vehicle with a family of unknown size and makeup. In other words, two people with minimum cargo "might" make it work where a family with 4 growing children, their toys and necessities would make it "mission impossible"...
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:18 PM   #3
MagnumP45
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
The trailer you're looking at has a 7000 pound GVW and your "maximum towing capacity is 7000 pounds. Without knowing anything else about your tow vehicle, it's already looking like you'll be "over-trailered" with that rig.

It's imperative that you also consider the vehicle wheelbase, front/rear axle maximum capacity, the weight of all passengers and cargo that will be in the tow vehicle as well as the GVWR, GCWR, receiver capacity and so much more.

Just to start, most people recommend at least a 10% reserve capacity in all categories, many recommend a 15% and some recommend a 20% reserve.

Using those recommendations, then the maximum "safe recommended trailer weight" would be 6300 (10% reserve) or 5950 (15% reserve).

Considering your vehicle, is the receiver rated to carry the tongue weight and trailer weight? Many vehicles are "rated for a maximum trailer capacity" based on optional equipment that may not be installed on a specific vehicle.

I'd urge you to post the "vehicle specifics" for your tow vehicle, your family size and anticipated cargo. That would provide information with which members could give you specifics about your tow vehicle and what to expect based on how you'll be using it, not based on an "advertising brochure that doesn't consider anything but selling more trucks than the competition"...

ADDED: The type of tow vehicle is probably more important than the maximum tow rating. As an example, a Honda Pilot with a 111" wheelbase and a 7000 pound trailer rating would provide a significantly different tow experience than a F150 with a 141" wheelbase with the same 7000 pound maximum trailer rating. The Passport you're looking at is nearly 31' long. That's an "enormous sail" to put behind a small, barely acceptable rating tow vehicle with a family of unknown size and makeup. In other words, two people with minimum cargo "might" make it work where a family with 4 growing children, their toys and necessities would make it "mission impossible"...
Thank you for the information. That is much appreciated. My tow vehicle is a
2015 Lexus LX 570. Here are the specs
GVWR: 7385lbs
GAWR Front: 3595lbs
GAWR Rear: 4300lbs
Towing capacity: 7,000 lbs
Dimensions: 197″ L x 78″ W x 73″ H
Curb weight: 6,000 lbs
Payload: 1,385 lbs
Wheelbase: 112.2"
Horsepower: 383

I have been reading a lot on Lexus/Toyota forums and "they" say that the LX is very underrated because it is the exact vehicle as the Land Cruiser which has a tow rating of 8100lbs. Some say they just switched over to use a SAE rating scale. In previous years it was rated for 8500lbs. Now, I never believe everything I read online, and I want to stay in the safe range for my family, so I would love any input before I buy.

I will be traveling with my wife and two daughters (7 and 9). I have never actually weighed all of our gear, but we don't have anything special. I was told by a dealer that the typical family of four with gear is about 800lbs. I was using that in my calculation.

By my understanding the trailer dry weight was 5085lbs. Add 800lbs for family and gear, then add 300lbs for water, gas, etc. That would put me at 6185lbs. I thought that should be an acceptable threshold for my vehicle.

What are your thoughts on my calculations?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:21 PM   #4
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I agree with what John communicated. An owner wants a margin of safety reserves to provide the best towing experience possible. One nevers knows what lies ahead of us on the open roads. And when tugging along 7K lbs on a short wheel base SUV will be no fun when the "sh$t" hits the fan at 65 MPH. Control is everything, period. Mated to that size trailer, expect the proverbial "tail that wags the dog" syndrome and some pretty sore knuckles.

Reassess your objective. As many experienced RVers know, a good method of putting together a rig is to "decide on the RV first". Then, find a suitable tow vehicle. In the reverse order, an owner is at the mercy of their truck's capability and options may be limited. In your case, this is true.

Good luck and safe travels.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:22 PM   #5
flybouy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumP45 View Post
Thank you for the information. That is much appreciated. My tow vehicle is a
2015 Lexus LX 570. Here are the specs
GVWR: 7385lbs
GAWR Front: 3595lbs
GAWR Rear: 4300lbs
Towing capacity: 7,000 lbs
Dimensions: 197″ L x 78″ W x 73″ H
Curb weight: 6,000 lbs
Payload: 1,385 lbs
Wheelbase: 112.2"
Horsepower: 383

I have been reading a lot on Lexus/Toyota forums and "they" say that the LX is very underrated because it is the exact vehicle as the Land Cruiser which has a tow rating of 8100lbs. Some say they just switched over to use a SAE rating scale. In previous years it was rated for 8500lbs. Now, I never believe everything I read online, and I want to stay in the safe range for my family, so I would love any input before I buy.

I will be traveling with my wife and two daughters (7 and 9). I have never actually weighed all of our gear, but we don't have anything special. I was told by a dealer that the typical family of four with gear is about 800lbs. I was using that in my calculation.

By my understanding the trailer dry weight was 5085lbs. Add 800lbs for family and gear, then add 300lbs for water, gas, etc. That would put me at 6185lbs. I thought that should be an acceptable threshold for my vehicle.

What are your thoughts on my calculations?

Thanks in advance!
It would appear your mixing your numbers and omitting some to justify your wants. You can't compare different models of the same make for weight capacity. There's a sticker on your vehicle's door jamb with the correct numbers from the factory. Every pound of weight added from the factory gets DEDUCTED ie. fuel, power seat motors, extra premium speakers and amplifiers, sound deadening material, leather VS cloth, etc. Also Deduct what you place in the tow vehicle including the hitch. The Kids and their gear will only get heavier every day (as well as the food to feed them)
Now for the trailer's weight the empty weight is changed as soon as it starts it's journey to the dealer. That empty wt does NOT include the battery, propane tanks, or anything you place inside like pots and pans, food & drinks, bedding, clothing, etc. It all adds up very rapidly. I think it's a safe assumption that you will rapidly exceed that carrying capacity.
Right now your ahead of this as you have not yet made a purchase. Take the advice given by the good folks on this forum as they have nothing to gain by you're decision like the salesman. Many, many of us have "been there done that" and pulled the trigger twice. Once to buy the trailer and again to by an appropriate tow vehicle after the fact.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:40 PM   #6
MagnumP45
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
It would appear your mixing your numbers and omitting some to justify your wants. You can't compare different models of the same make for weight capacity. There's a sticker on your vehicle's door jamb with the correct numbers from the factory. Every pound of weight added from the factory gets DEDUCTED ie. fuel, power seat motors, extra premium speakers and amplifiers, sound deadening material, leather VS cloth, etc. Also Deduct what you place in the tow vehicle including the hitch. The Kids and their gear will only get heavier every day (as well as the food to feed them)
Now for the trailer's weight the empty weight is changed as soon as it starts it's journey to the dealer. That empty wt does NOT include the battery, propane tanks, or anything you place inside like pots and pans, food & drinks, bedding, clothing, etc. It all adds up very rapidly. I think it's a safe assumption that you will rapidly exceed that carrying capacity.
Right now your ahead of this as you have not yet made a purchase. Take the advice given by the good folks on this forum as they have nothing to gain by you're decision like the salesman. Many, many of us have "been there done that" and pulled the trigger twice. Once to buy the trailer and again to by an appropriate tow vehicle after the fact.
I really do appreciate the input, but I'm not mixing anything to justify this specific trailer. I looked up the dry weight of the trailer, and I listed exactly what the sticker on my vehicle says. What info wasn't on my sticker I looked up on the Lexus website. I did take the advice of a salesman for the 800lb total for my families weight total. That is definitely an unknown. I also made up weights for water and fuel 300lbs, but that was also a number that a salesman provided, so I assume it might be in the ballpark.

With regard to the information on the Toyota/Lexus forum, that is just information I was providing as context for discussion. I wasn't suggesting that I would try to pull something equal to or more than 7000lbs.

I have never owned a TT, so I don't have any idea if my calculations for trailer weight of approximately 6200lbs are accurate. If not, then I am happy to reconsider other options.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 10-01-2019, 02:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by MagnumP45 View Post
I really do appreciate the input, but I'm not mixing anything to justify this specific trailer. I looked up the dry weight of the trailer, and I listed exactly what the sticker on my vehicle says. What info wasn't on my sticker I looked up on the Lexus website. I did take the advice of a salesman for the 800lb total for my families weight total. That is definitely an unknown. I also made up weights for water and fuel 300lbs, but that was also a number that a salesman provided, so I assume it might be in the ballpark.

With regard to the information on the Toyota/Lexus forum, that is just information I was providing as context for discussion. I wasn't suggesting that I would try to pull something equal to or more than 7000lbs.

I have never owned a TT, so I don't have any idea if my calculations for trailer weight of approximately 6200lbs are accurate. If not, then I am happy to reconsider other options.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Ok I'll try this again. Ignore the trailer dry wt it means nothing and you are guessing on what wt you are going to add.
Tow rating is part of the equation. The tow vehicle capacity is the limiting factor. Again, weigh what you are putting in the TV and subtract that number from your capacity and that's what you have left to carry the trailer tongue wt. Did your tow vehicle come with a hitch? If it did then there should be a sticker on it with a weight rating. If not, then you will need a properly sized to handle the tongue wt which you do not know. I'm not looking to argue just trying to help.
If you wish to rely on the Lexus web site for your specific wt rating and are willing to rely on a salesman for advice then all I'll offer is a sincere "Good Luck" and wish you safe journeys.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:07 PM   #8
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Good luck on your search but I would like to reiterate some of the points that have been made.

Trying to tow a trailer of any size with an SUV is generally a "not fun" experience and can even be very dangerous. The short wheelbase is one of the big issues. At 112" it won't take much trailer to push it all over the place. The trailer you are looking at comes in at a 7000lb gvw but also almost 31' long. That length will generate a huge amount of push/pull that you will be trying to control with that 112" wheelbase - not good.

In real life most SUVs are meant to be grocery getters and highway cruisers with a little storage in the back. I love them and have had them for many, many years. They aren't really meant as a tow vehicle (and I've never used any of mine for that) but the manufacturers throw a little receiver on the back and add that ability to the selling hype - even if they can't do it very well. I was just checking a SUV the other day and I believe the specs on its receiver stipulated a max. of 640?lbs on the receiver with a wdh. The trailer you are looking at would be more in the 840-850 range. The rating should be on your receiver or in your owner's manual (the manual tends to be generic and not vehicle specific). Also that tongue weight with a payload of 1385 is going to be a problem. You don't have enough capacity to carry the family, much less all the gear they will want to take.

I'm not sure where the salesman came up with 800 lbs. for a family of 4 - no idea. I probably have that much stuff in gear and tools etc. in the bed of my truck...not to mention what's in the trailer. Remember that the pots, pans, dishes, skillets, toasters, coffeemakers, pressure cookers, slow cookers, air fryers, silverware, coffee cups/glasses etc. add up quick. Not to mention bedding, electric blankets, clothes, jackets, boots/shoes, fishing gear, tackle, toys, bicycles, kayaks, food, full fridge, drinks, etc. etc. etc. (you get the idea). There is so much stuff you want and NEED when you have a literal home on wheels. That said, don't try to guestimate a lower number based on the salesman; use the gvw of the trailer which then gives you the max amount of gear you can throw in - with little ones you WILL use it.

Back to vehicle payload; besides the tongue weight (840-850) you need to figure a hitch (125), the 4 folks (actual now plus add about 30% for growth), what about friends?, all the groceries/snacks/drinks you will have in the vehicle, tools (a must) and most anything/everything else that you can think of. That 1385 payload starts looking VERY small....and dangerous. And, did I mention that 112" wheelbase will be hard to handle and possibly dangerous...with a family on board?

I know you've been trying to do your homework and that is to be commended. Now come the hard choices; let us help. Not a soul here has a dog in this hunt other than to see you come up with a good TV/trailer combo and go have tons of fun and make a lifetime of memories.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:41 PM   #9
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OK, I'll "pile on some more reality"....

All trailers have a tongue weight ranging from 10-15% of total weight. With a GVW of 7000 pounds, that means 700-1050 pounds. Now add 125 pounds for a hitch and your trailer will be putting 825-1175 pounds on the receiver mounted on the back of your truck.

With a "vehicle specific payload" of 1385, at the low end (825) you'll have 560 pounds of available weight for the family and all their gear, tools, extras. Don't forget that if you put aftermarket floor mats in your Lexus, they have to come off that 1385 too. What I'm saying is that EVERYTHING you add (or have added) to the vehicle comes off the payload, so yes, that travel guide and the Rand McNalley road atlas need to be counted....

Here's the "tough pill to swallow" part: If your trailer tongue weight is at the high end, with the hitch, you're looking at 1175 pounds. Take that away from the 1385 payload, and even if you leave the kids at home (just you and your wife in the vehicle) chances are you're going to be over your payload... 1385-1175 only leaves you with only 210 pounds for everyone and all their "stuff"....

Now, another "pill to swallow" is the wheelbase/trailer recommendations.
Typically, it's considered 120" for a 20' trailer and 1 foot of trailer for every 4" of added wheelbase. That means you're "already in the negative" before you even put the first bedsheet in your new Passport 2670BH.

Some might tell you that you can get a Hensley hitch to compensate for that short wheelbase and that the Hensley will completely eliminate all your sway. That's true, the Hensley is a remarkable hitch, but it weighs nearly 200 pounds, so go back up 3 paragraphs in this post and add that extra weight to the already "negative capacity" and you'll see that it's not just playful puppies that chase their tail.....

Short answer, yes, the Lexus will "pull" that trailer. Pull is defined as capable of making it move forward. The Lexus will not "tow" that trailer. Tow is defined as "SAFELY" pull the trailer with the precious cargo (family) onboard.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:01 PM   #10
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You've gotten great advice from good people. I pulled a 28 foot trailer same weights with a traverse I added a brake controller and transmission cooler to. It pulled ok but was way under powered and not stable at all. Lots of sway and white knuckles. I had a E4 equalizer which and it helped but in cross winds and semis passing it was not good. I didnt know any better and made it work, but got a 1500 Silverado and the difference was night and day.

So no guessing on my opinion, this is my experience speaking. Towing with this set up is not recommended. Ask the dealer if he would put his family in set up and go on an extended trip?
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:16 PM   #11
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Awesome input from everyone. I really appreciate it. I realize no one knows the weight of my family and gear, but what is the gross trailer weight that you would recommend that I should look for to tow safely with my vehicle? I don't have the option right now to trade in and get another tow vehicle right now. Thanks!
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:29 PM   #12
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My suggestion, for the next couple of years, until you can trade out of the Lexus and get an adequate tow vehicle is to take the $250 monthly payment for a trailer, the $400 a year for the insurance and the $50 a month for storage fees and save them. That's 250x12= 3000, 50x12= 600. That's 3000+400+600= $4000 a year. Rent a minihome for 2 weeks each summer and see if "RVing" is really for you. Then, in a couple of years when you can get rid of the Lexus, find the trailer you really want (or think you want) and buy the tow vehicle that will work for the trailer you want. Don't try to buy a trailer that will "maybe be OK behind the Lexus" that you hate and that doesn't have what you need, just so you can say, "I own an RV"....

Far too many people are "upside down" with an RV that's too big for their tow vehicle, get stuck in a "have to trade" situation and lose their shorts..... Or, they keep the tow vehicle, buy a "too small trailer" and the family learns that RVing SUCKS, so they sell the trailer and never get to experience "the real joy of RVing in a rig that fits the family".....

Don't jump in with a compromise that's unacceptable, bide your time and do it the right way, with the trailer you want, when you can get the tow vehicle to match it.
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Old 10-01-2019, 04:35 PM   #13
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Awesome input from everyone. I really appreciate it. I realize no one knows the weight of my family and gear, but what is the gross trailer weight that you would recommend that I should look for to tow safely with my vehicle? I don't have the option right now to trade in and get another tow vehicle right now. Thanks!
I highlighted the statement above because not only do the forum members not know those weights, neither do you so you err on the side of safety and use gvw; not a number given to you for a family of 4 by a salesman.

With the trailer you are looking at the length is as much, or more, of a problem than weight. A 112" SUV is just not meant to hold down a 31'Lx11'H wind catcher - can't do it. Look at the 5th paragraph of John's previous post; typical trailer towing recommendation is 120" of wheelbase for a 20' trailer then start calculating upward. If you just look at the base numbers a 20' trailer would be too much for your vehicle.

If you have to live with the vehicle you have and want to find something to fit within the confines of its abilities IMO I wouldn't exceed maybe 4-4500lbs. gvw and 20' or so to be safe. Max tow ratings mean absolutely nothing in the real world so just throw that number out of the window and look at your weight ratings, vehicle length and trailer length. You just don't have a proper tow vehicle for a larger RV. And, in the above posts nothing was ever mentioned about the "reserve" capacity you should maintain so you don't approach or exceed your weight maximums. I would look at minimum 10% and go up preferably.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:05 PM   #14
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When we moved from pop-ups to a larger trailer without changing tow vehicle, we went with a 23 ft hybrid, it was a Jayco 23b. Tons of room for us plus 3 kids with no issues, and GVWR was 5,000 lbs which worked perfect. Might be worth looking into a hybrid or expandable for the short term.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:40 PM   #15
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I would add to John's list in post #12 of money to set aside if you move forward with current selection. Transmission for the Lexus $? Extra brake replacements for a Lexus $? Towing for when the transmission let's go? No one's trying to be a killjoy here but we see it all the time. As everyone stated, people will get in over the tow vehicle's capability then spend a ton of money on hitch. tire, suspension, tuners, and other upgrades to compensate. Several of us have had first hand experience ourselves and just hate to see anyone else go down that path.
My suggestion would be take the fall/winter to do some more research. There are many posts on this forum regarding your exact dilemma. Again good luck and don't let this outpouring of "DON'T DO IT ! deter you from staying on the forum and asking questions. There are centuries of combined experience here for the asking.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:13 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MagnumP45 View Post
Awesome input from everyone. I really appreciate it. I realize no one knows the weight of my family and gear, but what is the gross trailer weight that you would recommend that I should look for to tow safely with my vehicle? I don't have the option right now to trade in and get another tow vehicle right now. Thanks!
I'd second what NH Bulldog mentioned regarding a hybrid coach. Length won't be a factor as the bunk ends are foldable. Weight will be within specs of a Lexus too.

I wouldn't be surprised that one could pick up a barely used unit up for thousands off a new price. Many people purchase a hybrid to satisfy their desire to be a RVer, finding out either they don't like the activity or just want something bigger. It usually doesn't take long so the trade-ins can be bargin for someone like the OP.

Plus, when or if the OP wants to upgrade, the depreciation hit will be much easier on the wallet.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:57 AM   #17
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Aside from all the numbers and great advice supplied, I would try renting a trailer from outdoorsy or some other rental site. You might find it difficult to find someone that would let you rent it based on your TV. If they do let you I would try somewhere semi close to try the maiden voyage.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:34 AM   #18
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Thanks all. I am taking all the suggestions into consideration and believe less weight and length is better. Btw, we are renting a trailer next week from RVShare and staying local within a 1 hr drive, so I will have a better understanding about how my vehicle handles when towing.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:25 AM   #19
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Thanks all. I am taking all the suggestions into consideration and believe less weight and length is better. Btw, we are renting a trailer next week from RVShare and staying local within a 1 hr drive, so I will have a better understanding about how my vehicle handles when towing.

That's perfect
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Dan & Serena

2019 GMC SIERRA 2500 HD SLE
2015 Cougar X-Lite 29 RET
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:45 AM   #20
DaveHolguin18
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Chino Hills
Posts: 4
We have this exact model in the 2018 and bought it this year. Got a good deal because it was last years model. Also, we pull it with a 2001 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 with a max tow rating of 8700. Yes we are close to max when fully loaded and it’s slow traveling up grades, but until we can afford a stronger tow vehicle, we just take it slow and get there in one piece. We love the trailer and also have two girls that love their own bunk beds. It has plenty of storage and just absolutely love the ouside kitchen! I just recently added a 24” LG Television in our bedroom that proved to be a bit difficult to find any info on how to do it. After my research I was able to find the LG Television at Target for $99 and a TV mount on Ebay for $7.99 The install was actually very easy and it fits in the only 2 1/2” space behind the two pocket doors. Just put the pics up on my Youtube channel to hopefully help people who want to add a television in that small space. Anyway, you will love the Keystone Passport 2670BH and because their isn’t many being sold is because it really is a great product and those who have them don’t get rid of them. Hope this helps and if you have any questions post them here or send me a PM. Good Luck!
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