Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Fifth Wheels
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-13-2018, 02:48 PM   #1
Tbos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Solomons
Posts: 3,874
Alpine with 6 point level-up?

I started having some intermittent issues when retracting the jacks. They would keep stopping. I’d release the button and press again and they would work for a few seconds and then stop again. It was not giving a fault or any other indication. Since we are under warranty we took it to the dealer. They troubleshot the system and determined the 60A auto reset breaker wasn’t big enough. The system was pulling 67A when retracting the jacks. Keystone concurred and they have installed an 80A instead. I pick the rig back up on Saturday. What do the rest of you think about this? The system worked fine for the 1st few months I had it. I’m wondering if something else went bad or is going bad and is causing the extra current pull. As a former “Tweet” I’m never comfortable with just putting in a bigger breaker. Ideas, suggestions?
__________________
Tom
2019 Alpine 3651RL
2016 F350 CC DRW
Tbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 08:07 PM   #2
bobbecky
Senior Member
 
bobbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,897
We with the Montana's have been dealing with this for several years, and some of us had 40 amp auto reset breakers, and some others with 50 amp ones. Once anyone changed them out to 80 amp breakers, the problem stops. Keystone was the problem, because they were told by Lippert that their systems needed 80 amp breakers but Keystone decided they knew better. You will finally enjoy a really good system. Hopefully, the techs looked things over in the battery area and made sure all the available 12 volt connections were tight. I found at least two terminals that were way less than tight, not even snug.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
bobbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 08:19 PM   #3
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
Fully charged batteries. Plugged into shore power or the TV while operating the jacks. Just dealt with this issue on a 2005 Cedar Ridge. While retracting and monitoring with my DC amp gauge at the pump I saw spikes of 87A.

The trailer I was working on had 2 gp 24 batteries but the trailer leads were both on one battery. I rewired and problem almost went away. Plugged into shore power and no issues in 5 “auto level” and retract cycles.

Battery voltage is critical, and even more so in the electric (ground control) system.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 05:50 AM   #4
Tbos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Solomons
Posts: 3,874
Thanks for the information. I feel better about it now. I have checked the battery connections but will do it again. I have 2 12v wired in parallel. In some cases I still had shore power connected and others just running the jacks off the batteries. I should have paid attention to which way was having the issue.
__________________
Tom
2019 Alpine 3651RL
2016 F350 CC DRW
Tbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 07:34 AM   #5
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
Yes Lippert has had a service bulletin out now for several years discussing upgrading the resettable breaker for the hydraulic pump motor it needs to be 80 amps.. anything less is not worth a hoot and it shouldn’t have been installed in the first place..

Also if you are in cold weather Lippert has a PDF for recommended lower viscosity fluid for the hydraulic system...by using the lower viscosity fluid the hydraulic pump motor won’t work as hard..

One additional item to check is the large DC cable going from resettable breaker to hydraulic pump motor dual polarity solenoid... there are 3 connections at the solenoid...center post is battery source cable and other two posts are CW and CCW rotation of the hyd pump motor.. make sure these connections are clean and tight.
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 07:39 AM   #6
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/...ulic_Pumps.pdf


https://www.lci1.com/images/support/lipsheet/0291.pdf
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 07:02 PM   #7
Tbos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Solomons
Posts: 3,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
Yes Lippert has had a service bulletin out now for several years discussing upgrading the resettable breaker for the hydraulic pump motor it needs to be 80 amps.. anything less is not worth a hoot and it shouldn’t have been installed in the first place..

Also if you are in cold weather Lippert has a PDF for recommended lower viscosity fluid for the hydraulic system...by using the lower viscosity fluid the hydraulic pump motor won’t work as hard..

One additional item to check is the large DC cable going from resettable breaker to hydraulic pump motor dual polarity solenoid... there are 3 connections at the solenoid...center post is battery source cable and other two posts are CW and CCW rotation of the hyd pump motor.. make sure these connections are clean and tight.


Thanks for the extra info. I appreciate it.
__________________
Tom
2019 Alpine 3651RL
2016 F350 CC DRW
Tbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2018, 09:55 PM   #8
Alpine
Senior Member
 
Alpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 783
As an aside..... this will help immensely in the retraction of your landing gear. I use it regularly on the landing gear rams and the slide rams as well.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	179769.jpg
Views:	159
Size:	64.2 KB
ID:	19615  
__________________


Jeff & Jan - Retired & Full-timing since 2013
2019 Ram Big Horn 3500 Aisin 4x4
2012 Alpine 3450-RL
Double Coin 235/75R-17.5/16 J rated 125lb
Alpine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 08:36 AM   #9
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
As an aside..... this will help immensely in the retraction of your landing gear. I use it regularly on the landing gear rams and the slide rams as well.
This was recommended by the factory service center to be used regularly when extending/retracting the rams & spray them weekly if parked with jacks extended for long periods.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 04:21 PM   #10
bobbecky
Senior Member
 
bobbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,897
Even though the Lippert manual still says to use silicone spray on the rams of their leveling system, I read on the Montana forum that folks at the Montana national rally in Goshen this year were told by Lippert people that they are finding that they think the silicone sprays are damaging the ram seals. I rarely spray mine and have no issues, but I would be cautious in over doing it with silicone sprays. It may have more to do with the solvents in the sprays, but that was not mentioned. There has been discussion that maybe just wiping the rams with a little ATF, just like you use in the system, would be a better way to go.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
bobbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2018, 09:43 PM   #11
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
If using regular WD40 I would suspect it would be damaging the seals, but using a silicone spray should not be a problem.
In my opinion regular WD40 has only 2 uses, #1 rusted bolts, #2 removing tar from your vehicles paint, other than those it has no use on your rv or anywhere else for that matter.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2018, 08:31 AM   #12
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
I don’t and won’t use WD 40 on anything on my RV. My hyd LG pistons get wiped down with a light coat of motorcycle fork oil before retracting.
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2018, 09:44 AM   #13
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
I don’t and won’t use WD 40 on anything on my RV. My hyd LG pistons get wiped down with a light coat of motorcycle fork oil before retracting.
Only drawback to wiping with the fork oil is dirt/dust WILL stick to the oil which what your trying to wipe off, it won't stick to the silicone spray.
If you're satisfied with the results of the oil, by all means keep using it, but the idea behind lubricating with the silicone is to be sure the grit is gone.
That's half the reason for not using regular WD40, it's a dust/dirt magnet. The other reason it will soften & eventually deteriorate rubber seals, gaskets, & orings.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2018, 02:27 PM   #14
sandy43
Senior Member
 
sandy43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 343
Where is the breaker located for the Lippert 6 point leveling system. I've looked all around the pump amd reservoir and can't find it? I want to see what amp breaker it is.

Also, Lippert recommended to me "CRC Power Lube w/PTFE" for the hydraulic arms.
__________________
Sandy & Ann
2019 Alpine 3401RS
2011 Ford F350 Diesel

sandy43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2018, 04:57 PM   #15
Tbos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Solomons
Posts: 3,874
They don’t look like a normal circuit breaker. More like a 1” x 1/2” little box with 2 connections on it. They often have a red plastic cover on them too.
__________________
Tom
2019 Alpine 3651RL
2016 F350 CC DRW
Tbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2018, 05:18 PM   #16
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
https://m.delcity.net/store/12V-Circ...CABEgJDlvD_BwE

Look like this. Notice different colored threads, one side is power and the other is load.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2018, 07:39 PM   #17
ChuckS
Senior Member
 
ChuckS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 2,977
Regarding the use of motorcycle fork oil. I wipe some on and wipe it off with dry rag. I then lightly apply a coat before retracting LG. It has no dirt and does not deteriorate the dust seals.

Same principle used on aircraft landing gear struts. Retired aircraft mechanic. Principle has been used for the last 70 plus years on aircraft strut seals around the world.
__________________


2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
ChuckS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 04:10 PM   #18
sandy43
Senior Member
 
sandy43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Texas
Posts: 343
OK, got one of those. How can you tell what the breaker AMP's are? I didn't see any numbers.
__________________
Sandy & Ann
2019 Alpine 3401RS
2011 Ford F350 Diesel

sandy43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 05:19 PM   #19
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy43 View Post
OK, got one of those. How can you tell what the breaker AMP's are? I didn't see any numbers.
Typically there is either a printed identification on the case or a stamped ID on the metal casing. If you have the red covers, you'll have to remove that to see the markings. Sometimes the markings are on the bottom and not visible unless you unbolt the breaker and look underneath.

Here's a couple of typical markings
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	12VDC CIRCUIT BREAKER1.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	42.5 KB
ID:	19631  
Attached Images
 
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2018, 12:47 PM   #20
swanson
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Pleasant Hill, IA
Posts: 54
Unless the wiring itself is "big" enough, gage, to handle the load I'd be afraid of overloading the wiring and causing a fire.
__________________
Marc and Evon
2015 Passport 23RB
2019 Ram 1500 Limited
swanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alpine

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.