Waste Dump Replacement Valve Challenge

Sherwolfe · 07-11-2018, 03:47 PM

Recently had leakage out of my "black tank" waste valve. At first I decided to place the additional "gate valve" on my sewer hose connection to avoid the spillage and nasty stuff that would come out when removing cap. Of course after realizing this was only a temporary fix to my problem, decided to fix the problem rather than just the temporary solution.

Discovered a number of issues while undertaking this "Challenging" task. First, there is absolutely NO WAY to change out either the "black tank or gray tank" valve without cutting between either the "black tank and the valve or the gray tank and the valve" Based on the installation of the tanks and all underbelly plumping, clearly before they put the floor down, they leave absolutely no wiggle room to pull the gate valve out and certainly no ability to get it back in along with seating the gaskets.

So, making the decision to cut the pipe and choosing the "gray tank" side instead of the "black tank" in case there happens to be any leakage near the cut I felt I choose wisely to cut the "gray tank"

Now keep in mind the three inch pipe I was cutting only has 1 1/2 inches between the flanges of the "gray tank" and the flange for the gate valve. But cut I did, then of course had to cut out enough to actually allow enough room for removal and insertion of valve. Also while doing this choose to replace both valves because I am already doing this instead of having to repeat this later.

So to put this all back together I found a 2 inch rubber pipe splice for a 3 inch pipe connection, cut it down to 1 1/2 inches. This required a lot of lubricant to slide it up over the flange on the "gray tank" while putting the valves in place.

All said and done, this did work, but wow it was a lot of work. Oh and did I mention that before removing all this I discovered that while building my trailer they just crushed the heater vent for the bathroom. So I repaired that and taped up the holes they put in it.

I also rerouted some wiring they had laying on some sharp metal as well a moved a water line that the "gray tank" valve was already cutting into. Geez, I understand they try to build them fast, but just a little extra looking could have saved some time.

BTW, a piece of paper jammed the "black tank" valve. Also, when flushing tank I found two of those disposable toliet packets that never dissolved.

None the less, new valves and all works great now.

K_N_L · 07-11-2018, 04:05 PM

Gotta love the incidentals you find while fixing 1 thing. I have a buddy who sez he's not buying a new camper as he doesn't want to deal with all the shakedown items, so he's still rocking his 2007 which he knows back and forth, and I understand that completely ... Thanks for sharing.

travelin texans · 07-11-2018, 04:07 PM

Normally you'd just remove the 4 bolts & pull the gate portion of the sandwich valve out & replace it without cutting any piping. It's still some times very snug, but still easier than cutting piping.

Old Mustanger · 07-11-2018, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwolfe

. Also, when flushing tank I found two of those disposable toliet packets that never dissolved.

We always "open" these packets in the toilet bowl with the water we are flushing them down with, if they don't open on their own by dissolving the wrap we punch it open with something like a Qtip so the water we flush is already blue when it gets to the tank. (I say we because the DW usually does this task).

**JRTJH** · 07-11-2018, 06:45 PM

There were several reports last summer from members who reported that holding tank chemical packets had not dissolved as advertised. Some reported problems with the packets catching in valves and causing problems. We haven't used packets but rather use liquid deodorant if/when we use anything. The suggestions from many last summer were to peel the packets open and pour the contents into the toilet and then disposing of the plastic packet in the trash rather than in the holding tank.

**sourdough** · 07-11-2018, 06:58 PM

IMO the packets are a bad deal waiting to cause a problem. Used the once...only once. We have the clear elbow on the dump valve and what do you see....while flushing? The little packets still waiting to completely dissolve. I refuse to use them anywhere but, unfortunately, I bought those to try to "simplify" things. My determination - don't use them.

Sherwolfe · 07-11-2018, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_N_L

Gotta love the incidentals you find while fixing 1 thing. I have a buddy who sez he's not buying a new camper as he doesn't want to deal with all the shakedown items, so he's still rocking his 2007 which he knows back and forth, and I understand that completely ... Thanks for sharing.

Sounds like some good logic, I might just keep mine for years for that very reason.

Sherwolfe · 07-11-2018, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Normally you'd just remove the 4 bolts & pull the gate portion of the sandwich valve out & replace it without cutting any piping. It's still some times very snug, but still easier than cutting piping.

Oh believe me, if I could have just removed the four bolts and pulled the old one out and put the new back in I would have done it. However, after removing the four bolts and finding I could barely get a flat blade screwdriver in there to pry open the flange I decided the cutting of the pipe was my only option short of pulling the tank out.

ctbruce · 07-12-2018, 03:26 AM

Funny thing about tanks. They're either falling out while traveling loaded or they won't budge to change the gate valve. There's apparently no in between!

wiredgeorge · 07-12-2018, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Normally you'd just remove the 4 bolts & pull the gate portion of the sandwich valve out & replace it without cutting any piping. It's still some times very snug, but still easier than cutting piping.

The fella who just cut and used the rubber piece is in the same situation as my trailer. You CAN NOT repeat CAN NOT pull out the old valve much less put in a new one with seals. There just is NOT enough give between black and grey tanks. I think you might get a little give by loosening the cross braces that hold the tanks but not sure given they are both hard attached to drains above and the pipes are pretty large diameter.

I tried to replace my dump valve on the black tank and ran into this issue and gave up for the time being due the amount of labor necessitated by a dumb design.

Sherwolfe · 07-12-2018, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There were several reports last summer from members who reported that holding tank chemical packets had not dissolved as advertised. Some reported problems with the packets catching in valves and causing problems. We haven't used packets but rather use liquid deodorant if/when we use anything. The suggestions from many last summer were to peel the packets open and pour the contents into the toilet and then disposing of the plastic packet in the trash rather than in the holding tank.

We became suspicious these packets were not dissolving earlier this camping season so I did a test by putting one in a glass of water. Well it did not dissolve so since then we started to open them as you mention and put the contents in the tank. I did see a difference when dumping after this, less solids and clumps of paper.

The packets that did come out where discovered when doing several tank fills and dumping prior to my valve replacement in our attempts to get the tank as clean as possible, YUK. That said, I did get this down to pretty clear water prior to the work, thank goodness.

Without question it was the failure of these packets to properly function which caused more solids and paper to build up over time. Got it all cleaned out now and plan on switching over to the liquid treatment and using a lot more water when flushing, lesson learned.

B-O-B'03 · 07-13-2018, 01:51 PM

I purchased this powder, when we bought the trailer, still using it and it seems to work great.

64, 40 gallon treatments, less than a buck each.

-Brian

Dave W · 07-13-2018, 02:24 PM

I have not used these packets but occasionally, not every dump, use the bottled odor control stuff and have been for many tears.

FWIW, our black tank flows way to slowly to evacuate it completely of all the stuck on the tank walls crud. I usually do a back flush, either by using the flush port on the Flo-Tech macerator or if using a stinky slinky, a Camco or Thetford back flusher. This back flush really does a good job of keeping the tank cleaned out. A word of caution though is to never forget that it's on. The built in tank flush kinda works but really doesn't do the job completely.

MattE303 · 07-13-2018, 03:10 PM

I've been using this stuff for about a year. I put about a half gallon of water in the toilet, drop in 1 or 2 packets and wait for them to dissolve before flushing, then pour the rest of the water in. They've never failed to dissolve so far...

cavediver · 07-14-2018, 03:59 AM

Has anyone used Rid-x? We use it in our septic system. It's bacteria that eats waste.

Jack

**JRTJH** · 07-14-2018, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavediver

Has anyone used Rid-x? We use it in our septic system. It's bacteria that eats waste.

Jack

For Rid-x to work, it needs to sit in the tank for an extended time. The package is only a "starter seed dose" of bacteria. Once it's dumped into the septic system, the bacteria start to multiply and use the waste material in the septic system as their food source. It's the "multiplication factor" that makes Rid-x effective. Essentially, that 10 ounce box of Rid-x contains about 6 ounces of bacteria. How much they can "eat in a day" is the key to understanding how Rid-x works. It's the "multiplication to several pounds of bacteria" coupled with how long the bacteria is allowed to remain in the tank that makes the "seed starter packet" effective.

Typically, in an RV holding tank, the waste is not contained for a long period of time, so the bacteria doesn't have enough time to multiply sufficiently to make their numbers effective. If you leave your black tank full for a month or longer, Rid-x may help digest (break down) waste on the walls, but remember, bacteria don't have legs, can't climb the walls of the tank, so the only effective means to get the bacteria to the waste that clings to the walls is to have a full black tank. That comes with some problems: smell, weight, hot weather being a few.

Rid-x will help, but to be effective, you need to consider how it works and don't "handicap" it by pouring it in, leaving it overnight and then flushing the black tank. It simply can't multiply that fast and all you're doing is removing the few bacteria you poured down the toilet the next morning.....

travelin texans · 07-14-2018, 08:40 AM

Most black tank chemicals are formulated to control odors not as much to digest the waste, as mentioned it usually not in the tank long enough to work. You are better off to remember to use plenty of water while flushing & rinse thoroughly after dumping. I've found that after dumping to add a couple gallons of water & a good squirt of Dawn soap in all the tanks works as well as most any of the chemicals.
I'm sure if wherever you are connected to sewer if they're on a septic system would appreciate a dose of RidX, but it won't do you much good in your black tank.

cavediver · 07-14-2018, 11:09 AM

Thanks for the reply's. I can see what you mean. It sets in my septic tank allot longer.

Jack

kfxgreenie · 07-14-2018, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattE303

I've been using this stuff for about a year. I put about a half gallon of water in the toilet, drop in 1 or 2 packets and wait for them to dissolve before flushing, then pour the rest of the water in. They've never failed to dissolve so far...

10-4 Same product used and same process here. Never seen one not dissolve, but I watch them after reading that some have had problems.

johnlewis · 07-19-2018, 07:44 AM

I recently had a leak develop in the galley tank piping. Apparently, the strain on it over the last 11 years caused the pipe to crack. When I went to repair it, I decided to replace the valve, since I knew it was leaking. Surprise, surprise! I found a crack at the other end of the pipe! I cut the long run of pipe that had the cracks in it, cut the ends square, and added a short piece of pipe, to get back to the original length. When I installed the new valve, I used rubber waste pipe couplings to mount the section of pipe. I figured the cracks were because the pipe was under a strain - 90 degree elbows at each end, in a pipe that was declined, not horizontal.
I also found a crack in the galley tank, at the transition to the outlet. I used Seal All to cover this crack. It is still holding after a year plus.

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