Alright.. Let me have it

[glennemay]

I have been RVing for most of my life. I have never owned anything from Keystone. Was always sort of under the impression they were somewhat lower quality than some.

HOWEVER, I am now looking at a 2020 Raptor 415. I am shopping due to a fire loss and am sort of in a pickle. I live full time. Due to an insurance debate I am not in the position to buy a new one at the moment, but need a place to live.

The unit I am looking at is in pretty decent shape from what I can tell, cant find any soft spots. Everything seems to work as it should (The door handle is strange) and the dealer seems to be fairly straight forward (Local guy in Massachusetts, not a national place)


SOO What am I in for.. What else should I be looking for problem wise? Any help is definitely appreciated!


Thank You
Glenn

[sourdough]

You would look for anything you would look for in any used RV - roof, appliances, flooring, subfloors, obvious repairs or damage, tire condition, A/Cs etc. Coming from a dealer hopefully they have done all the inspections and can tell you what is and isn't. Don't know what RV brands you have had but Keystone has everything from small ultra light entry level units to 20k luxury models - quality varies with models and $$$. In my "looking" over the years I've not found any RV travel trailer that stood out as "exceptional" from any brand when looking at the same price point. Some are proud of what they have without any reason I can see but it's all in the individual's mind and preferences.

[glennemay]

Originally Posted by sourdough

You would look for anything you would look for in any used RV - roof, appliances, flooring, subfloors, obvious repairs or damage, tire condition, A/Cs etc. Coming from a dealer hopefully they have done all the inspections and can tell you what is and isn't. Don't know what RV brands you have had but Keystone has everything from small ultra light entry level units to 20k luxury models - quality varies with models and $$$. In my "looking" over the years I've not found any RV travel trailer that stood out as "exceptional" from any brand when looking at the same price point. Some are proud of what they have without any reason I can see but it's all in the individual's mind and preferences.

I have had everything from 1960's Travel Trailers, Truck Campers, Pop Ups, through Open Range Toy Hauler (My fire destroyed one)

I know they all have their ups and downs. I've looked for everything I know and I actually think this dealer does his job. (I went and looked at one at Camping World as well, they were NOT what I was looking for )


The Raptor seems to fit the bill. I was really loving the InCommand, but have read some scary things about that as well.


Just hoping to get some direct input.. It seems to have been taken good care of with the exception of a handlebar hole in the wall in the garage.

[JDDilly]

I have a Fuzion Toy Hauler. It has been a great rig. There were a couple bigger tweets that the dealer did under the warranty, but besides that just the every day tings have had on all my campers. It goes back for the last couple warranty items this fall, after the camping season. We purchased it at Camping World in Monticello, MN, and the service has beeb outstanding. I have read many post about people waiting months while there camperswas in service. We have been in 3 time for service and only once did I leve it for 3 days. The ther times, I was there whe they opened to leave it.my wife and went shopping and we picked it up around 1 pm and headed home. For us, they have been great and so has the fuzion. Not sure ho the Raptor and Fuzion stack up against each ther, except they a both Keystone.

[glennemay]

Originally Posted by JDDilly

I have a Fuzion Toy Hauler. It has been a great rig. There were a couple bigger tweets that the dealer did under the warranty, but besides that just the every day tings have had on all my campers. It goes back for the last couple warranty items this fall, after the camping season. We purchased it at Camping World in Monticello, MN, and the service has beeb outstanding. I have read many post about people waiting months while there camperswas in service. We have been in 3 time for service and only once did I leve it for 3 days. The ther times, I was there whe they opened to leave it.my wife and went shopping and we picked it up around 1 pm and headed home. For us, they have been great and so has the fuzion. Not sure ho the Raptor and Fuzion stack up against each ther, except they a both Keystone.

Thank you. Camping world is probably a crapshoot. their pressure system is a bit more than I would normally like and the particular camper that they had is not in any condition for me. It's been VERY well loved. The Raptor I am looking at is a dealer in central Massachusetts and family owned. They are so far very good.. But we'll see.

[dutchmensport]

Based on your comments, you sounds like the Raptor has your full attention. If the camper and the RV dealership meet at least 90% of your approval rating, then what's stopping you from taking the plunge? You sound like the type of person who knows what they are getting into when purchasing a new camper. You are your own best judge at the camper you are looking at. You have experience (a life time), so you are very familiar with the ups and downs of RV ownership.

A wise old minister once told me, "Dave, put your heart in the deep freeze and your head in the oven." This was over the issue of a girl friend I had. It took a while to figure out what he was saying, but I finally did.

Don't let the passion of the "thing" over ride common sense. I think in your case, you are approaching the situation, maybe.... almost ..... too cautiously. Maybe, .... um ... add a little more heat to the heart, cool the head now, and follow the passion, not the logic?

Your call, but I think you know what you really want to do. It's just a bit scarry making new changes.... I totally understand!

[glennemay]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

Based on your comments, you sounds like the Raptor has your full attention. If the camper and the RV dealership meet at least 90% of your approval rating, then what's stopping you from taking the plunge? You sound like the type of person who knows what they are getting into when purchasing a new camper. You are your own best judge at the camper you are looking at. You have experience (a life time), so you are very familiar with the ups and downs of RV ownership.

A wise old minister once told me, "Dave, put your heart in the deep freeze and your head in the oven." This was over the issue of a girl friend I had. It took a while to figure out what he was saying, but I finally did.

Don't let the passion of the "thing" over ride common sense. I think in your case, you are approaching the situation, maybe.... almost ..... too cautiously. Maybe, .... um ... add a little more heat to the heart, cool the head now, and follow the passion, not the logic?

Your call, but I think you know what you really want to do. It's just a bit scarry making new changes.... I totally understand!

HA Sounds like you know me. I do get caught up from time to time in my head and not my heart. It's the engineer in me. no question about that. The Raptor definitely has my attention. I like the size of the garage and the layout of the unit. Since I am very nearly full time in it, I like to make sure that I Have things right and I know what I am getting into.

The one thing that scares me is that there is not a lot of information either on youtube or otherwise for specific model maintenance. It's nice to see.


But I think you are right. I am going by there today and putting down the deposit. Now to work out the price with the things I want done to the unit before I take it.


Thank You

[Camping family]

I found if you compare different manufacturers you will find they are all about the same. As long as you compare like price models you are going to find about the same. You can’t compare a cougar low price model to a high price model of another brand. It just doesn’t work like that. I found they all have problems with manufacturers and they all have issues after the sale. Just find what you like and a decent dealer who you think will take care of you after the sale.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by glennemay

The Raptor seems to fit the bill. I was really loving the InCommand, but have read some scary things about that as well.

Don't let inCommand scare you away. I've seen scores of postings from people worried about how bad it would be if the system that controlled all their lights and slides went belly up someday. I still haven't yet seen one from a camper who actually had that happen. For run-of-the-mill problems, I've found ASA CS reps to be some of the most responsive and helpful I've ever experienced. Give it a fair chance.

[GlasNav]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Don't let inCommand scare you away. I've seen scores of postings from people worried about how bad it would be if the system that controlled all their lights and slides went belly up someday. I still haven't yet seen one from a camper who actually had that happen. For run-of-the-mill problems, I've found ASA CS reps to be some of the most responsive and helpful I've ever experienced. Give it a fair chance.

CD has a good point regarding InCommand. I installed WiFi in our shop where we store trailer starting two years ago. With constant updates InCommand hasn't had a hiccup. Prior to that when stored in a storage facility, things weren't great.

[glennemay]

Thank you. I have constant internet in the rig at all times. So updates should be easy. I don't know when the last time it was done. I would have to get it online and find out.

[TXiceman]

A very brief answer. Look for other than Keystone. We have RVed since 1984 with Prowler, Champion by Firan, Avion twice, Silver Streak, Carriage Cameo twice, Winnebago, a sorry Pace Arrow and a Nuwa HitchHiker Champagne. The two lowest quality and poor construction units were Pace Arrow and the current Cougar.

Look at older higher end units built prior to 2015.

[Bellabrie]

Like the other users said, look for the same deficiencies as a house. I don't suspect there will be many other than incidental things that a hammer or screwdriver couldn't fix.

We have a 2022 Keystone Carbon. Does it have its quirks like big balls of wiring everywhere with no schematic? Yes, but generally we have been super happy with ours with the functionality and quality build for the price. You get what you pay for generally with these things.

If you are handy and can fix things, which it sounds like you are, the Fuzion is a great rv and comfortable. My husband and I have spent a lot of time in ours and can say we would be happy living in it. Lots of room, especially when the toys are out and the garage is temporarily converted to a living space.

FYI, this has come up with many forums. Not sure if the Fuzion uses the clip together wiring harness under the belly by the solar, inverter etc (the little clear box that connects the wires by simply closing it), but the Carbon does and it sucks! Change that stupid thing out to proper wire connections and you won't have any issues. It's just a cheap finish they do to annoy people with problematic sockets etc. Your welcome everyone! This will save you hours of diagnosing why your plugs or lights aren't working....

Enjoy your rv!

[PMizzi]

Keystone have multiple products and as an owner of a 2023 cougar we are pleased with the the structure and build. Now 2020 borders on the Covid years and I would caution you on those years…2020-2022. Also before purchasing get a third party inspection .

Originally Posted by glennemay

I have been RVing for most of my life. I have never owned anything from Keystone. Was always sort of under the impression they were somewhat lower quality than some.

HOWEVER, I am now looking at a 2020 Raptor 415. I am shopping due to a fire loss and am sort of in a pickle. I live full time. Due to an insurance debate I am not in the position to buy a new one at the moment, but need a place to live.

The unit I am looking at is in pretty decent shape from what I can tell, cant find any soft spots. Everything seems to work as it should (The door handle is strange) and the dealer seems to be fairly straight forward (Local guy in Massachusetts, not a national place)


SOO What am I in for.. What else should I be looking for problem wise? Any help is definitely appreciated!


Thank You
Glenn

[jimd1050]

Originally Posted by PMizzi

Keystone have multiple products and as an owner of a 2023 cougar we are pleased with the the structure and build. Now 2020 borders on the Covid years and I would caution you on those years…2020-2022. Also before purchasing get a third party inspection .

If it's an early 2020 build, he should be fine, even the higher end plants didn't start having trouble with help until the 2021 model year. My wife and I bought a 2021 Cougar and Wow, what a nightmare! Kept it for 18 months and bought a used (like new) 2019 Montana 3121RL and sold the Cougar. Montana has been (knock, knock, knock) trouble-free! We love it!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by PMizzi

Keystone have multiple products and as an owner of a 2023 cougar we are pleased with the the structure and build. Now 2020 borders on the Covid years and I would caution you on those years…2020-2022. Also before purchasing get a third party inspection .

Look at the build dates. My trailer is a 2020 but built in 2019 before there were any covid related concerns.

[Kzneft]

Glenn: I purchased new a 2018 Keystone Carbon. I little less luxury then a Raptor. Very minor problems since 2018. Kinked fuel line when new, that was an easy fix. The fold down bed needed longer/bigger screws, but other than that I am extremely happy! No problems since. Raptor was always Keystone's Flagship for Toy haulers.

[bigrockk]

We have In-Command in our 2019 Cougar and and since the updates in 2021 or 2022 it has worked flawlessly. Initially I wasn't very thrilled with it but honestly I wouldn't want to do without it now. I really like how well everything works from my phone.

Also we have owned Keystone units since 2010 and they have been flawless in regards to the structures themselves. Our latest unit (Cougar 315RlS) has had a couple of appliance issues but that was more of a Dometic issue not a Keystone issue.

Enjoy your new unit!

[glennemay]

Originally Posted by bigrockk

We have In-Command in our 2019 Cougar and and since the updates in 2021 or 2022 it has worked flawlessly. Initially I wasn't very thrilled with it but honestly I wouldn't want to do without it now. I really like how well everything works from my phone.

Also we have owned Keystone units since 2010 and they have been flawless in regards to the structures themselves. Our latest unit (Cougar 315RlS) has had a couple of appliance issues but that was more of a Dometic issue not a Keystone issue.

Enjoy your new unit!

Thank you so much. I am at the finance stage now. So we should be good in a couple of weeks.

[glennemay]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Look at the build dates. My trailer is a 2020 but built in 2019 before there were any covid related concerns.

Thank you. It was built in 2020, but January. So it should be before any real Covid issues took place. I hope anyway!