15A Charging

[Salty25]

When I had the bumper pull, it was a 30A system, I would plug it into a 15A circuit at home to charge the batteries. I did that from time to time the entire time I had it with no issues, using a surge protector of course.

Now I have a 5th wheel, which is a 50A system. I plug it into the same 15A circuit to charge the battery and it trips the GFCI plug. It only does it if we use something else on that circuit inside the house. I'm still using the 30A surge protector to plug it into the house.

Nothing is on inside the 5r; except the normal things that draw power when it is stored. I'm not sure if its just trying to pull more power since it is a 50A system or if it is some sort of feed back from the solar system. Should I only use the 50A surge protector? I kept the 30A in case we go somewhere that does not have 50A service. I do have a 30A to 50A adaptor but don't have a 50A to 15A adaptor. I figured I could use the 50A to 30A and then the 30A to 15A to plug in for battery maintenance.

[GHen]

You can turn off all 120volt breakers in the rv and see if it trips then turn them on one at a time until you get a tripped GFCI in the house. Might narrow down the issue a bit.

I have a couple 20amp circuits I use to plug our family 5wheel’s into. (Got a couple of 30amp RV plugs also). They still trip when plugging in a 100’ cord to an RV and turn the A/C on. It’s takes a hour or so. 15 amp GFCI protected plug wouldn’t last long.

[spicercars]

When our rv is at home and it is 50a I plug it into a 20a and have no problems. Maybe the 15a that it is pluged into has to many other items on that circuit?

[ChuckS]

I plug into a 15 amp outside outlet with my 50 amp fifth wheel and have for last eight years to run converter to keep batteries charged.. I use a 50 to 15 amp adapter and do not use my EMS when plugged into my house

I would double check and make sure the water heater is turned off in 120 AC mode...

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Salty25

When I had the bumper pull, it was a 30A system, I would plug it into a 15A circuit at home to charge the batteries. I did that from time to time the entire time I had it with no issues, using a surge protector of course.

Now I have a 5th wheel, which is a 50A system. I plug it into the same 15A circuit to charge the battery and it trips the GFCI plug. It only does it if we use something else on that circuit inside the house. I'm still using the 30A surge protector to plug it into the house.

Nothing is on inside the 5r; except the normal things that draw power when it is stored. I'm not sure if its just trying to pull more power since it is a 50A system or if it is some sort of feed back from the solar system. Should I only use the 50A surge protector? I kept the 30A in case we go somewhere that does not have 50A service. I do have a 30A to 50A adaptor but don't have a 50A to 15A adaptor. I figured I could use the 50A to 30A and then the 30A to 15A to plug in for battery maintenance.

First bit of advice is get rid of the surge protectors and get an EMS. There have been many, many discussions on this. Question, is the GFI that trips or is it the breaker for the GFI outlets that trips? If the breaker trips then the circuit is overloaded. If the batteries are at a low state of charge then the converter itself can draw 8 amps.

If the GFI protection trips then there is an imbalance of voltage between the line and neutral. Some GFI outlets don’t play well with others. That means that plugging in a device with a GFI outlet (your trailer) into a power source protected by its own GFI may cause "nuscence tripping". Diagnosis of this issue will require some knowledge of electrical testing and safety, a volt ohm meter and the practical experience to safely use the meter. If you need to call an electrician then save yourself the hassel of a "knot of wires and adapters" and have them install a 50 amp RV outlet. That way you can run what you want and use the camper as an extra living space.

[Salty25]

I thought about these after I made the post yesterday. I went to double check, it is a 20A circuit in the house and not a 15A. I have one outside plug at the back of the house and one at the front; both are on a 20A circuit.

It doesn't trip the breaker in the breaker box but the GFCI plug on that circuit. It is one of the kitchen circuits that the backyard plug is on.

Everything is off in the 5r. I never turn anything on until we are getting ready for a trip then I'll start up the fridge a couple days before to get it cold. I'll turn on the water pump to make sure there are no air in the lines the day before we are leaving. The only time I'll turn on the A/C is if I have to do something in there for a bit. Not cold enough here for the heaters to be turned on.

I'll flip the 120 breakers inside to see if it still causes the GFCI to trip in the house. Even that circuit has nothing on it. The only way I know it is tripped is if I look outside and don't see a light on the surge protector.

I have a Southwire Surge guard. I thought I read in here that was a good one to go with when I had the TT.

Thanks for the info and tips.

[Salty25]

OK,

I went to turn off the 120v breakers. I saw one that said main so I switched it and heard a fan spin down. I turned it back on and then flipped one at a time. When I flipped one marked converter the fan spun down. There was also one marked Solar that I turned off. I looked in the storage and it still indicated the batteries were at 13.1 and charging; but that is probably from the house connection.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Try turning off the GFCI breaker inside your camper, but not turning off the breaker for the converter. That will most likely let the battery recharge without tripping the home GFCI.

[flybouy]

Surge Guard is a brand name. They make both plug in non EMS devices and plug in and hard wired EMS devices. IOt depends on the model number which one you have. The "fan spinning down" is the cooling fan on the converter. That fan running is an indication that it's charging the battery.

In the original post you stated that the problem only existed when you "used something else" on that circuit. What is that "something else"?

[Essvar]

Depending on the age of the receptacle in your home it could also be worn and tripping with less voltage than desired. I've had to replace a few GFI because of this.

[Salty25]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Surge Guard is a brand name. They make both plug in non EMS devices and plug in and hard wired EMS devices. IOt depends on the model number which one you have. The "fan spinning down" is the cooling fan on the converter. That fan running is an indication that it's charging the battery.

I have model 44280 for the 30A and the same version of the 50A.

In the original post you stated that the problem only existed when you "used something else" on that circuit. What is that "something else"?

That was a mistype on my part. There is nothing else plugged into that circuit. The only way I saw it was off is when I walked by and didn't see the lights on the surge protector. I had to find out which circuit it was on since the breaker in the box didn't trip. I went around with my tester and found two dead plugs, one was the GFI so I pressed the reset and it came back on.

[Salty25]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

Try turning off the GFCI breaker inside your camper, but not turning off the breaker for the converter. That will most likely let the battery recharge without tripping the home GFCI.

With all the 120v breakers off, including the main, it is showing charging on the Zamp controller with 13.0v. According to the manual it is in absorption charging mode.

During the PDI I asked about care and maintenance of the system. The guy said he didn't know much about them and I could find some info online. Well, I found plenty on how to set them up and suggestions on what to buy. Nothing on how to maintain, other than wash the panels to keep clean and don't power wash.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Salty25

I have model 44280 for the 30A and the same version of the 50A.


That was a mistype on my part. There is nothing else plugged into that circuit. The only way I saw it was off is when I walked by and didn't see the lights on the surge protector. I had to find out which circuit it was on since the breaker in the box didn't trip. I went around with my tester and found two dead plugs, one was the GFI so I pressed the reset and it came back on.

The Surge Guard 44280 Is a surge protection only, it is not an EMS. It indicates an issue with the wiring but does nothing to protect against it.

As for tripping the indoor GFI outlet it's impossible to tell what the culprit may be. If it were moine, I'd start with replacing that GFI outlet first.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Salty25

I thought about these after I made the post yesterday. I went to double check, it is a 20A circuit in the house and not a 15A. I have one outside plug at the back of the house and one at the front; both are on a 20A circuit.

It doesn't trip the breaker in the breaker box but the GFCI plug on that circuit. It is one of the kitchen circuits that the backyard plug is on.

Everything is off in the 5r. I never turn anything on until we are getting ready for a trip then I'll start up the fridge a couple days before to get it cold. I'll turn on the water pump to make sure there are no air in the lines the day before we are leaving. The only time I'll turn on the A/C is if I have to do something in there for a bit. Not cold enough here for the heaters to be turned on.

I'll flip the 120 breakers inside to see if it still causes the GFCI to trip in the house. Even that circuit has nothing on it. The only way I know it is tripped is if I look outside and don't see a light on the surge protector.

I have a Southwire Surge guard. I thought I read in here that was a good one to go with when I had the TT.

Thanks for the info and tips.

Surge Guard by Southwire is one of the top brands for an EMS for your RV. You have a "surge protector", not a true EMS. It does very little to protect you or your trailer. For your use on a 50A trailer they make the 34950 EMS or the the 34951 (wireless monitor). I have ran my 34950 portable for many years and it has never malfunctioned through some pretty rough use. I will upgrade to the 34951 this year or next.

As far as your tripping circuit, is there a way to run your RV off a non GFCI protected circuit? IMO they cause nothing but problems when trying to piggyback your RV off of it with additional GFCI plugs in it. Prior to having a dedicated 50A outlet installed for the RV I used a 20A plug for years. It was piggybacked off one in the house with nothing on it. Never had any issues unless someone went in the trailer and turned on too much stuff as we were preparing for departure. I would throw in a word of caution though; I replaced the plug that the RV plugged into twice over the years. Turning on the AC for any prolonged period combined with other small usage devices in the RV pulled enough current to eventually deteriorate those plugs so keep an eye on them and replace if it appears they are overheating, getting loose or are pitting your extension cord.

[Salty25]

Guess I'll be ordering me a 34950 this coming payday. Amazon has the 34951 for an extra $100.

I think I'll figure a way to cover the panel so it doesn't charge and just unhook the battery and take it into the garage for the winter. Then I'll just hook up the trickle charger to keep it topped off.

I knew the solar would charge less during the winter due to less amount of sun. I just don't want to totally drain the battery or cause an issue by leaving it plugged in too long.

[Falcon67]

Your GFCI is likely seeing an imbalance of current either on the neutral or something because you've condensed both legs on the trailer into one. GFCI is sensitive for that to protect you. Remember that GFCI is to protect the PERSON. A breaker is there to protect the CIRCUIT.

Our 50A race trailer does same. IMHO the proper response it to wire up a 240V RV socket. Then you get not only proper charging but you can run all systems at full blast to check out whatever.

Alternately as noted - unhook the battery(s) and run a cord to a charger to handle it.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Salty25

With all the 120v breakers off, including the main, it is showing charging on the Zamp controller with 13.0v. According to the manual it is in absorption charging mode.

Something just doesn't "click" with me in trying to understand your comment....

If the main circuit breaker in the trailer is turned off, then NOTHING should work on any of the branch circuits.... Then, if the REC/CON circuit breaker is turned off, the converter/charger (the CON part of that breaker) is also turned off and there "can't be any charging on the Zamp controller (assuming there is no solar over-ride system)....

What am I not understanding about what you're saying ????? 0+0 is supposed to equal 0, but here, seems like 0+0=1

[Salty25]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Something just doesn't "click" with me in trying to understand your comment....

If the main circuit breaker in the trailer is turned off, then NOTHING should work on any of the branch circuits.... Then, if the REC/CON circuit breaker is turned off, the converter/charger (the CON part of that breaker) is also turned off and there "can't be any charging on the Zamp controller (assuming there is no solar over-ride system)....

What am I not understanding about what you're saying ????? 0+0 is supposed to equal 0, but here, seems like 0+0=1

I turned off all the 120V breakers. I heard a fan power down so I turned them on one by one to see which circuit it was on. When I turned on the one marked "Conv" I heard the fan power up. I then turned them all off again.

With the power cord plugged in the battery should still be charging. The Zamp control shows it as charging; as stated above.

I'm not use to leaving the trailer unplugged when I'm not using it. Or at least to check it every week and plug it in to charge. I've been watching the charge level all summer and it has been keeping a charge from the solar panel. We are starting to get more clouds here now so the battery level dropped, I think to 12.4 or 12.3. So I decided to plug it in to keep the charge.

If I flip the main and conv breakers back to on the Xantrex 2000 will show shore power plugged in on its panel.

[GHen]

If you’re worried about the solar not charging during the winter, you just need to install a full disconnect at the battery. Charge the batteries up, disconnect them and they will be good in the spring.

That’s what I do with mine, if I get snow on the solar panels my batteries could be dead in a couple weeks or less. Disconnect them and no problem, better yet, remove and keep them in the garage on a trickle charger over the winter. Replacing batteries is expensive and unnecessary with proper winter procedures.

Also GFIC’s don’t like to be tripped a lot of times. They get temperamental after a dozen trips and trip easier, better to just replace them.

[Salty25]

Originally Posted by GHen

If you’re worried about the solar not charging during the winter, you just need to install a full disconnect at the battery. Charge the batteries up, disconnect them and they will be good in the spring.

That’s what I do with mine, if I get snow on the solar panels my batteries could be dead in a couple weeks or less. Disconnect them and no problem, better yet, remove and keep them in the garage on a trickle charger over the winter. Replacing batteries is expensive and unnecessary with proper winter procedures.

Also GFIC’s don’t like to be tripped a lot of times. They get temperamental after a dozen trips and trip easier, better to just replace them.

I plan to just disconnect the battery and place it into the garage for the winter. There are two disconnects in the storage bay, one actually in the wet bay. I think one may be a full disconnect.

Do you cover your panel when you remove the battery? Not sure if it will screw up the panel if it is doing its thing and not hooked to a battery or something to use the power being generated.