Newb with 2018 Keystone Raptor 426ts

Sam75462001 · 10-11-2021, 05:16 PM

Greetings everyone!
Pulling a 2018 Raptor 426ts with a 21 GMC 3500. First time owning but grew up camping and my wife kind of went glamping. Took the wife, 2 kids and 2 dogs RVing in a bumper pull rented from Navy MWR a few times and they enjoyed it so we took the plunge and bought one to go full time. My wife’s parents were full time for a while and she likes the idea, and well my military career has been living out of a bag so this should be quite the upgrade!

Already learned that a lot of little problems pop up and these forums are amazing at finding the solution.

Cheers everyone!

markcee · 10-11-2021, 05:29 PM

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the new trailer! That sure is a big boy!

Take a moment to click on the 'User CP' link in the upper left hand corner and add a signature to your profile that includes the trailer year, make, model as well as your tow vehicle year, make, model. This will help others help you in a more timely manner should you have any questions.

Sam75462001 · 10-11-2021, 05:36 PM

Appreciate it.

spicercars · 10-13-2021, 03:41 AM

Welcome from northern MN.

Sam75462001 · 10-13-2021, 04:27 AM

Thank you.

Roper46 · 10-13-2021, 05:21 AM

Welcome from south Georgia. Congrats on your purchase and safe travels to you and yours.

rhagfo · 10-13-2021, 07:43 AM

Well that is a BIG, HEAVY 5er! Looking at the picture you posted it looks like your TV is a SRW 3500, you have a 16,000# DRY 5er with a GVWR of 19,000#, you need a bigger TV for that rig.

Sam75462001 · 10-14-2021, 05:15 AM

You are correct regarding the #’s on the Toy Hauler. The GMC dealership and RV dealership both confirmed that the 3500HD Denali tow package was plenty for the Hauler. Unless I am mistaken, the 2021 standard box SRW diesel has more than enough to tow it from what the manual they went over with me showed. If you can provide some resources backing up that the truck is not enough for the hauler then I would be very grateful so I can have a few conversations with the dealerships…

Sam75462001 · 10-14-2021, 05:16 AM

Thank you Roper46! Same to you! ��

rhagfo · 10-14-2021, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam75462001

You are correct regarding the #’s on the Toy Hauler. The GMC dealership and RV dealership both confirmed that the 3500HD Denali tow package was plenty for the Hauler. Unless I am mistaken, the 2021 standard box SRW diesel has more than enough to tow it from what the manual they went over with me showed. If you can provide some resources backing up that the truck is not enough for the hauler then I would be very grateful so I can have a few conversations with the dealerships…

It isn't the TOW (Pull) capacity that is the the issue, it is the the PAYLOAD (ablity to carry) that you need to worry about.
The sales people just want to make the sale. Yes, you are likely with in the Tow capacity, likely around 20,000#, but what are your scale weights with your 5er attached?

What is the Payload from the Yellow Payload sticker on the drivers door pillar? Also the trucks GVWR and axle ratings from the VIN sticker?

Our 2016 Ram 3500 DRW has a Payload of 5,411# and a Tow rating of 25,250#, there is no way I could carry the pin of a 25,000# 5er.

Technical Specifications:
Length 43' 6"
Width 8' 4"
Height (in/mm) 13' 6"
Dry Weight 15,580#
Payload Capacity 3,420#
GVWR 19,000#
Hitch Weight DRY 3,570#

The dry hitch of 3,570# is going to eat up most of your TV payload before you even put batteries or propane on board!

Gary R. · 10-14-2021, 07:16 PM

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Congrats on the new Raptor, too!

Take care and have fun!

**sourdough** · 10-14-2021, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam75462001

You are correct regarding the #’s on the Toy Hauler. The GMC dealership and RV dealership both confirmed that the 3500HD Denali tow package was plenty for the Hauler. Unless I am mistaken, the 2021 standard box SRW diesel has more than enough to tow it from what the manual they went over with me showed. If you can provide some resources backing up that the truck is not enough for the hauler then I would be very grateful so I can have a few conversations with the dealerships…

Sam unfortunately you've been lead astray once again by "sales" people. They wouldn't know a payload rating from a goosebump. All they know, and tout, is max tow ratings which are absolutely useless when towing an RV. A SRW 1 ton (I have one) has NO business trying to tow a 19,000lb. trailer.....none. Not trying to rain on your parade but more trying to keep you safe....which dealers and salesmen could care less about (or know about). Post the numbers from the stickers inside the driver door; yellow/black payload, gvwr front and rear and vehicle gvwr. They'll tell you where you stand vs a salesman "selling you the farm".

ncstan · 10-24-2021, 08:29 AM

Also keep everyone else on the road around you safe. You are going to end up killing someone pulling that with that TV! Why does everyone buy a TV/camper and listen to the dealers THEN want to come on the forum after the fact?

JDDilly · 10-24-2021, 09:27 AM

The gross weight of our 381TH is 17000 lbs. I had a RAM 3500 SRW and pulled it home from the dealer in a cross wind and it was not fun. I have since went with a 3500 DRW, the difference is amazing, much more stable, not to mention the payload. When we went with the new camper, we were already looking at DRW trucks, just hadn't found one at the time we picked up the camper.

I would never pull a rig of that size with SRW.

**flybouy** · 10-24-2021, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncstan

Also keep everyone else on the road around you safe. You are going to end up killing someone pulling that with that TV! Why does everyone buy a TV/camper and listen to the dealers THEN want to come on the forum after the fact?

Because they WANT it to be true. It's human nature for someone to want the pretty shiny new trailer with the pretty blue lights. A lot of folks are under the misconceptions that it's illegal for a dealer to lie about towing capacity. Look at any truck or trailer website, advertising, or sales contract and you'll see the disclaimer about this being the sole reponsability of the owner. But who reads that "in the moment"? All they can hear is themseves saying "I want, I want, I want!" and the salesman saying "Yes, you can have!"

Then later, when things break, warranties become ineffective, they realise they have anotherb119 payments to go. Then they come looking for answers and find out that their truck is woefully undersized as well. I can understand their feelings of betrayal, anger, and disappointment.

Mikelff · 10-24-2021, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam75462001

You are correct regarding the #’s on the Toy Hauler. The GMC dealership and RV dealership both confirmed that the 3500HD Denali tow package was plenty for the Hauler. Unless I am mistaken, the 2021 standard box SRW diesel has more than enough to tow it from what the manual they went over with me showed. If you can provide some resources backing up that the truck is not enough for the hauler then I would be very grateful so I can have a few conversations with the dealerships…

Sam, no doubt you can pull (tow) your trailer. The question everyone is trying to help you with is can your truck CARRY your trailer. For real world numbers you need to go to the CAT scale and weigh your truck and trailer, fully loaded with the wife, kids, and pets, with full fuel tanks, and weigh your truck. Take that rear axle weight and subtract it from your payload off your yellow sticker on the door jam. That is your remaining payload. Now hook up your 5er loaded as you normally would to go camping, and weigh truck and trailer. Subtract rear axle weight from payload weight rating and you will know real world weight, over or under. You can also subtract the two rear axle weights to get the real world loaded pin weight of your 5er. These are your real world numbers. Not some BS numbers a dealer throws at you that they know nothing about. I agree that you probably need a dually, and while you are at it, maybe want a 4500/F450 for that monster? Something to consider. I believe you will be having that conversation with the dealer you mentioned. Unless they are towing their own large 5ers, they know nothing about it. Sure hate, hate, to be a downer but I have been in this same position. Better to know the truth, just wish it had been before you made the purchase. Best of luck to you.

LHaven · 10-24-2021, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncstan

Also keep everyone else on the road around you safe. You are going to end up killing someone pulling that with that TV! Why does everyone buy a TV/camper and listen to the dealers THEN want to come on the forum after the fact?

For the same reason that people buy a gun before joining the gun club. Otherwise, why would the average person join a gun club?

LHaven · 10-24-2021, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam75462001

You are correct regarding the #’s on the Toy Hauler. The GMC dealership and RV dealership both confirmed that the 3500HD Denali tow package was plenty for the Hauler.

This disclosure always reminds me of a line from Norstrilia:

"Listen to that," said the man in a red cloak, "one animal says another animal told it to do something."

The point being that for some reason people assume that these salesmen are natural competitors of some sort, and that if the RV is wrong, the truck dealer will tell you that, and if the truck is wrong, the RV dealer will tell you that.

They're not competitors. They're participants in the same dance, and they both get their own cut of the proceeds.

travelin texans · 10-24-2021, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam75462001

You are correct regarding the #’s on the Toy Hauler. The GMC dealership and RV dealership both confirmed that the 3500HD Denali tow package was plenty for the Hauler. Unless I am mistaken, the 2021 standard box SRW diesel has more than enough to tow it from what the manual they went over with me showed. If you can provide some resources backing up that the truck is not enough for the hauler then I would be very grateful so I can have a few conversations with the dealerships…

Yes! You have plenty of motor & transmission to "tow" that trailer or about any trailer you hook up to! The issue is you may not, maybe you do, have enough payload available to safely within the limits of that truck to "carry" the load placed on the truck of that much weight.
As for the truck/rv salesman they did their one & only job, they sold you a truck & RV. There are very few knowledgeable RV salesman when it concerns weights & even fewer truck salesman.

LewisB · 10-25-2021, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncstan

Also keep everyone else on the road around you safe. You are going to end up killing someone pulling that with that TV! Why does everyone buy a TV/camper and listen to the dealers THEN want to come on the forum after the fact?

The above quote is completely out of line and begs for an apology from the sender to the OP. Before we jump the OP for "killing someone with that tow vehicle", how about we get some facts in place?

> We have two family friends who both tow toy haulers with 2020 and 2021 GMC 3500 SRW Denali's. Both of these families have thoroughly checked scale weights and their numbers are all well within design specs for tires, axles, payload, GVWR of both the tow vehicle and trailer, etc. I don't have their payload stickers, but I've looked at both of them and they were north of 4,000#s. The newest Chevy trucks have had significant payload upgrades from the factory. These are decked out spectacular trucks! (And that's coming from a FORD guy LOL) The toy haulers they are hauling are slightly smaller than the Raptor listed by the OP.

>If you are using the standard estimated hitch pin weight of 25% of GVWR for a fifth wheel trailer, then you missed the fact that rule does not always apply to a toy hauler. The dry weight listed is with the garage EMPTY. The garage (behind the trailer axles) on my Raptor is rated for up to 3,000#'s. So when I load my big side-by-side in the garage, do you suppose the pin weight will change? Don't forget to add 60 gallons of fuel for the two gas tanks, also behind the axles. And let's see, my tools, a couple of chairs, etc.] On my 17,000 GVWR 2018 Raptor, the loaded pin weight is 15% of the GVWR. This is not unusual for a toy hauler.

So what I see is the possibility of a 19,000# loaded toy hauler with a 15% pin weight of 2,850# towed by a 3500 with a payload of 4,000#. If the additional weight of passengers, hitch, and other "stuff" added to the bed of the truck does not exceed 1,150#, then payload is not the issue. I can't speak to tires, axles, etc. [Note that payload might easily be exceeded if the toy hauler was hauled "wet" and empty.] But now, I'm just guessing like everyone else in this thread. For me, I'd prefer my DRW because I want an auxiliary fuel tank and other things we're not discussing here. I also wanted some spare capacity so I didn't have to play the weight game every time I loaded up for a trip. And I wanted to be able to cope with the "wet/empty" pin weight since we sometimes travel without our side-by-side.

So how about we get some facts?
To Sam75462001:
So far, you've gotten some good advice (like weigh your rig) and some strong (but not necessarily valid for you) opinions. Send us a picture of the payload sticker and then a set of weight tickets from the scale house. Then we can deal in facts rather than opinions. In the mean time, I put this one in the "possible" but "not for me" category.

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