Help newbies pick their first truck (and potentially Rv)

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by linux3

Before Covid and trucks became unavailable and RV's are being built with no regard for quality we were talking about buying a 1/2 ton towable and a Chevy 2500HD.
General numbers for 5th wheel towing is around 17500 lbs and 3500 lb carry. Plenty of ratings to spare.

Not trying to talk you into anything but a 2500 / 250 is cheaper and will ride better and a small 5th wheel will be more maneuverable.

Just suggesting other options in your quest.

I think you need to expound. 2500s with payloads of 3500 and equipped like a person would want? Tow rating of 17,500? I need to find that 2500.

[linux3]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I think you need to expound. 2500s with payloads of 3500 and equipped like a person would want? Tow rating of 17,500? I need to find that 2500.

Yes, it's a dealer and the numbers are not exact but when I was looking at 2020 Doublecab 4X4 2500HD 6.6 L gas, manual said 5th wheel tow was 17,500. I don't remember exact numbers on the yellow tags but 3,500 lbs is a good round number for carry..

https://www.woodstockchevroletbuick....vs-3500-towing

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by linux3

Yes, it's a dealer and the numbers are not exact but when I was looking at 2020 Doublecab 4X4 2500HD 6.6 L gas, manual said 5th wheel tow was 17,500. I don't remember exact numbers on the yellow tags but 3,500 lbs is a good round number for carry..

https://www.woodstockchevroletbuick....vs-3500-towing

The parts bolded are the "advertising fantasy" that dealerships use to base their sales tactics. Those data are founded in base model, properly equipped trucks. That translates (in English) to base model, nobody would buy that kind of vinyl seat/no electric windows/2WD/regular cab/long bed truck and try to tow with a family in the truck.....

The part in red is the essence of why a 2500/250 truck can't tow a large fifth wheel. You can only get that kind of payload with a "no options truck" equipped with a gas engine. Add options, add diesel and your payload drops significantly. Most current model 2500/250 crew cab 4x4 trucks on lots these days have yellow stickers in the 2200-2800 range. That's 2200 for diesels and 2800 for gas powered 3/4 ton offerings from all 3 manufacturers. Sure, there are exceptions, so this is "generally what you'll find" in a "properly equipped, high option vehicle package".... Those brochures: They're "low end base models stripped to obtain high numbers for the brochure".

As for buying a new model 2500/250, the price difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton (identically equipped) truck is around $400. When considering "ride quality", I defy the average "tire kicker on any sales lot" to drive any HD pickup on the lot and tell me if it's a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton truck without looking at the fender badge... These days, ride quality is essentially the same for both trucks. In Ford's line, the spring packages are identical between the two trucks. The difference is the overload spring, which "floats in the air" until the bed is loaded with enough weight to cause it to contact the spring stops. Until then, the ride is equally "cushy" in both models.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by linux3

Before Covid and trucks became unavailable and RV's are being built with no regard for quality we were talking about buying a 1/2 ton towable and a Chevy 2500HD.
General numbers for 5th wheel towing is around 17500 lbs and 3500 lb carry. Plenty of ratings to spare.

Not trying to talk you into anything but a 2500 / 250 is cheaper and will ride better and a small 5th wheel will be more maneuverable.

Just suggesting other options in your quest.

Honestly I have to disagree!
Most 3/4 tons, especially if diesels, will have very little more payload than 1/2 tons. The price is also minimal & it's highly doubtful that if the badging was removed you couldn't/wouldn't be able to tell the difference in ride or mileage.
Don't buy 3/4 & expect it to do the job if a 1 ton, you'll be disappointed.

[JDDilly]

Forget the Tremor, as others have stated, it is not a truck for towing. I would recommend going with a 1 ton long box. I have owned many trucks during my life and the long box is nice for cargo space even with the 5th wheel hitch in. If you do go with the short box truck, you will need a slider hitch which will be more weight in most cases. This will also eat up cargo capacity.

[Jimmy240]

Just a heads up if you go Ram Mega cab. You’ll be limited to a 31 gallon fuel tank. It’s ok when you’re not hauling a trailer, but when you are it sucks. I’ve owned a mega cab back when they first came out (2006) and loved the room. Hands down the best cab as far as space goes. BUT compared to the available 50gallon option on the crew cab long beds, it just isn’t as important. Obviously I know you can go aftermarket and have a larger fuel tank added, but that’s more money and headache. Just thought you should know, in case you didn’t.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by grakka

My wife and I aren't ready to go dually because we've never seriously camped on our own. IF we don't love the lifestyle and are prepared to spend months out at a time we won't need the dually...

We are both fine with taking the depreciation hit on the [lighter] truck and the trailer if we love the lifestyle enough to upgrade to something much larger.

Realize this is two sides of the same coin. If you buy the dually, then decide you made a mistake, it will probably have more resale value than the lighter truck. Heck, the way these ridiculous EV mandates are multiplying, you may be able to sell it for more than you paid for it.

[linux3]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Honestly I have to disagree!
Most 3/4 tons, especially if diesels, will have very little more payload than 1/2 tons. The price is also minimal & it's highly doubtful that if the badging was removed you couldn't/wouldn't be able to tell the difference in ride or mileage.
Don't buy 3/4 & expect it to do the job if a 1 ton, you'll be disappointed.

If you read my reply I said a gas truck. Diesels subtract, on average, 500 lbs.
The yellow sticker I talked about is not dealer hype it's put on at the factory. It's calculated by subtracting actual vehicle weight from GVW.
All semi modern GM vehicles have this tag.

As to the difference between a 1500 and a 2500HD....
It's huge.
Go to a Chevy dealer and if you can find a 2500HP gasser open the driver's door and look at the yellow tag!

And I never said a 2500HD would do the job of a 3500HD but what do you need to do YOUR job.

I would say the 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton labels are no longer even close to reality.
My 1500 as per the yellow sticker has a cargo rating of 1680 lbs.
By my back of the envelope math that's 180 lbs over 3/4 ton.

[Falcon67]

[quote]I've narrowed the trucks down to a Ram 3500 or a Ford F350 - I'm not interested in a dually as we would prefer something easier to drive around town. [quote]

Our 2020 F-350 XLT DRW has an 8' bed and the new 7.3L gas engine. It runs like a scalded dog and pulls our 13,900 lb race trailer without issue. I drive it daily, every where. We also have a 2004 F-150 XLT Super Crew 5.4L.

Wife will not drive the F150 unless forced, she takes the 350 is she wants to go somewhere. I get the 150 in those cases. It's that heated 8 way driver's seat that makes the difference.

The F-150 weighs 5600 lbs. The F-350 weighs 7500lbs. On an 1/8 mile dragstrip I dial both around 10.60. Made me $50 in Street last time I ran it here.


Along with weight, you need to think about sail area. Our Continental Cargo is 34' x 8' tall. The new Springdale 220RD is 10'+ - it's taller than the race trailer. The Springdale is easy 7000lbs less. On a pure bumper pull/hitch ball the Springdale will try to push the butt end of the F-350 around as much as the 34'er on load levelers. Once you run down the road with a trailer using a DRW you'll not be so interested in a SRW vehicle. Especially if the trailer is any size at all. 24' or better IMHO.

[wegone]

2. Trying to "mild offroad" with a 1 ton 4x4 is like trying to hang pictures with a 10 pound sledge hammer.

LOVE IT....hahah, perfect!

I think you are still guessing, just like everyone else on their first buy.
You can only guess so much, eventually you need to just jump in the water and swim.

I did research for maybe 2 years, if not really more, and trying to find a compromise with the wife, took 3 by itself

Others here are not you, and their advice is like mine, my perception on what you need according to what I experienced.

No such anything in life is a perfect fit, solution, ain't possible because we change.

Tow is better to go bigger than smaller, but maybe not if its to be used as a driver too...
Size is a major consideration, bigger offers more accommodations, but limits your parking places.
That was prolly my hardest question to find a answer without ever having pulled a TT before.
We wanted to go to places that have a size restrictions, so we knew we had to consider that.
With slides on both sides now, you can get room without length, and that really helps a lot.

Good luck on your journey enjoy it, it can be a hoot if you treat is as a blessing, instead of a task you have to master to make it "just right"

[wiredgeorge]

Falcon67 said, "Wife will not drive the F150 unless forced, she takes the 350 is she wants to go somewhere. I get the 150 in those cases. It's that heated 8 way driver's seat that makes the difference."

Since everyone has given their opinion and gave it again, let me throw this in:

"Heated 8 way driver's seat"? Never thought heated seats would be my first choice of options and a bench seat is FAR more comfortable than the lounge chairs they put in the cabs of those high end trucks. I drove my sis's Ram Laramie 2500 down from DFW last weekend and she has heated lounge chair 8 way adjustable seats and my tailbone hurt so bad I felt I was riding a Sportster and not a truck. BENCH SEATS are the ultimate in comfort plus your honey can cozy up snug when you drive if you are still young enough to enjoy such things.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

...
BENCH SEATS are the ultimate in comfort plus your honey can cozy up snug when you drive if you are still young enough to enjoy such things.

What ??? You mean your "honey" doesn't straddle the console with the 4 speed shifter between her legs with her head on your shoulder and your arm around hers as she shifts for you??? Man oh man, time for you to update (not the "honey" but the vehicle seating arrangement)

Butt warmers ??? I thought that was what critters names Sport or Spot were for....

[travelin texans]

Is there still ANY truck available with a bench seat? And other than George who would possibly want one?
I haven't owned one with a bench seat since about '94-95 model, maybe earlier & don't ever want one again!
Well wait let me back up! At work they ordered the stripped down Ford's (you know the kind George likes) that had benches, felt like buckboard seats, in them from 1978 til about 2010 when we got them with the 60/40 benches in extended cabs, still felt like buckboards, my back has never been the same & talk about sore tail bones.

[linux3]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Is there still ANY truck available with a bench seat? And other than George who would possibly want one?

Standard Chevy trucks have what looks like a center console but it folds up and is padded on the back. Now you have a bench seat.

That was the seating on my previous truck and there were a few times I had 6 people in the double cab.

[JRTJH]

DW's legs are about half as long as mine, so when she's driving, my knees are "in the glove box"... As soon as I found out there was an alternative to the bench seat, I promised myself to never suffer bruised knees again... So far, I'm managed to avoid them

[Walterthediver]

My loss you possible gain. I just went through a divorce, and I am down sizing. I have a 2014 3500 Ram 4x4 with a cummins, and a 2014 34`Keystone Cougar travel trailer will sell at a package price. Best way to contact me is to send me a PM. Thanks Walter

[firestation12]

It has taken many years before I could afford to buy a new truck. That said, I cannot understand why anyone would buy a $80,000 truck and take it "off roading" which invariably leads to bent rocker panels, pinstriping on the doors and fenders, loose suspension, mud in places that will never be clean again, tire tread that looks like its been on a bench grinder, and God only knows what other damage will be done to the undercarriage. Pulling a 5th wheel off road, will have it's own lessons to teach a new owner from bent bed rails on the truck from twisting terrain, tree branches removing portions of the trailer roof, flat tires from sharp rocks, dead batteries in the middle of nowhere, dragging the back bumper + bending the scissor jacks into a pretzel...and the list goes on. A razor atv or e-bike with wide tires, provide a superior off road experience than beating up a new truck. The overwhelming consensus of the group has been, buy a 1 ton truck if serious about pulling variety of trailers, and to bag the Tremor. It would be interesting to know the sum total of years of experience behind that advice.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by firestation12

It has taken many years before I could afford to buy a new truck. That said, I cannot understand why anyone would buy a $80,000 truck and take it "off roading" which invariably leads to bent rocker panels, pinstriping on the doors and fenders, loose suspension, mud in places that will never be clean again, tire tread that looks like its been on a bench grinder, and God only knows what other damage will be done to the undercarriage. Pulling a 5th wheel off road, will have it's own lessons to teach a new owner from bent bed rails on the truck from twisting terrain, tree branches removing portions of the trailer roof, flat tires from sharp rocks, dead batteries in the middle of nowhere, dragging the back bumper + bending the scissor jacks into a pretzel...and the list goes on. A razor atv or e-bike with wide tires, provide a superior off road experience than beating up a new truck. The overwhelming consensus of the group has been, buy a 1 ton truck if serious about pulling variety of trailers, and to bag the Tremor. It would be interesting to know the sum total of years of experience behind that advice.

You make some excellent points that those that have gone "offroading" are aware of. If one is actually going "offroading" any kind of damage can occur.

My DS thought he would take my DGS's pickup (new Ford) to go trailing with us (I was in my lifted CJ7). I didn't take anything "rough" and he ended up with both chrome steps under the doors bent up. Another time I took him with me on a trail that he decided to go on by himself in his pickup; returned to camp with one mirror hanging and 2 body panels dented due to tight trees. Big, full size trucks just can't go "offroading" very well. Or for that matter go over Elwood Pass in southern CO (neither can my 4runner anymore since it has deteriorated so bad).

As for the sum total of years of experience behind the advice in the thread above....a LOT.

[firestation12]

Sept 28, 2021, 2 women and a dog started up Black Bear Pass from Telluride for a fun day in their 2021 Ford Bronco. At one point they attempted to turn around. One of the women got out to supervise the process. The Bronco rolled off the slanted shoulder and tumbled 400’ before coming to a stop. Both the driver and dog were ejected. The dog had minor injuries, the driver had very serious injuries. The Bronco?? Well the engine and hood were torn loose, but the interior was not compromised. YouTube pics of the Bronco are incredible.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by firestation12

Sept 28, 2021, 2 women and a dog started up Black Bear Pass from Telluride for a fun day in their 2021 Ford Bronco. At one point they attempted to turn around. One of the women got out to supervise the process. The Bronco rolled off the slanted shoulder and tumbled 400’ before coming to a stop. Both the driver and dog were ejected. The dog had minor injuries, the driver had very serious injuries. The Bronco?? Well the engine and hood were torn loose, but the interior was not compromised. YouTube pics of the Bronco are incredible.

The new Broncos have zero business on Black Bear....and it's better than it was 30+ years ago. Also sounds like the driver wasn't very skilled at 4wheeling - doubt she will want to try that again..... She should have taken Imogene.....if she didn't drive off that little, rickety "sort of" wooden bridge built into the mountainside. At least she thankfully survived.