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Old 09-30-2021, 07:21 PM   #1
Keshka
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slide out issues

Hi gang!
Our slide out for the living room is leaving a nasty gooey black streak on the carpet about even with the drivers side edge of the rear seat storage box. I checked out the underside of the slide out an it appears someone glued a patch of the Darco on top of the existing Darco. Apparently something had damaged the original underside and a patch was attempted.

The patch is now failing and the glue is what is smearing the carpet. Here is the question. Does this 2011 Fuzion have any type of roller or glide for the slide out such as I see in the factory tour videos of new Keystone RVs or is it just the Darco sliding on the carpet?

If it's just Darco/carpet then any gravel/dirt/screw etc could scratch the heck out of the Darco.

Have any of you removed the slide out and attempted repairs or added rollers? That seems the best option. Even doing the original repair as it should have been done and removing the slide out and replace the entire piece of Darco would be better that this mess. I would still be vulnerable to foreign object damage but at least it is preventable.

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Old 09-30-2021, 07:40 PM   #2
sourdough
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You don't clarify what kind of slide you have, I'm assuming cable (Accuslide).

A piece of darco was "glued" over the other darco? BTDT on a brand new trailer and it peeled off causing a mess. Some others use the patches as a "fix" for the darco but it's a poor decision.

I suspect only you will know if you have rollers; pull down the flap under the slide, they are evident if there. If not there should be a "wear bar", a plastic, sort of inverted U shaped polymer bar under the slide. On a 10 year old trailer it could be damaged. You need to look the slide over; top, bottom, sides etc. to look for any anomalies or damage to any of the seals or any other damage.

No, unless you have lots of "stuff", folks and a weather proof building you don't want to "remove the slide"; that is a chore and unless you are very proficient at what you are about to attempt, a possible "what have I done" moment.

You need to completely assess what is going on with the darco, the damage and what is causing it. There are remedies but you have to KNOW what you are trying to fix. Look it over and post back.
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Old 09-30-2021, 08:33 PM   #3
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obtw....the slide out is hydraulic with a gear rack on each side synchronized with a pinion gear and square shaft connecting the two pinions.

I have gone underneath and pulled the seal back, all I can see is the carpet and the Darco. No visible friction pads or rollers. I can take some photos in the morning for more detail in the mean time here are a couple.
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Old 09-30-2021, 09:17 PM   #4
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In your second photo (the one with the slide ram visible), go to the left of the photo and you'll see a rubber seal/flap. Pull that down with your fingers and use a flash light to look in that space. You'll see a plastic/glide/bumper about 2 to 3 inches beyond the rubber seal/flap.

That is the "wear guide/wear bar" on which the slide bottom rests when being extended/retracted. If there are rollers, they will be "at the same location as the seal/flap. There will be either two or three rollers about 5" long and about 1" in diameter upon which the slide darco bottom "rolls on as the slide moves in or out".
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Old 10-02-2021, 09:00 AM   #5
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JR;
here are more photos of the slide out. Something I discovered, there seems to be some sort of pad or block at three locations under the lip of the slide out I can map out with a long knife blade. There is a pad about 8" wide just in from each side and a third pad about 30" wide in the center. Material unknown.

Attached are more detail photos
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Old 10-02-2021, 09:01 AM   #6
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more photos
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Old 10-02-2021, 09:27 AM   #7
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Are the "pads" you reference attached to the floor or the bottom of the slide and does their location correspond to the location of the black mark on the carpet? If they are what is causing the black mark then I would assume they are attached to the bottom of the slide?
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Old 10-02-2021, 11:11 AM   #8
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SD;
they are attached to the floor and do not move with the slide out and yes, the black mark corresponds with the left "block".

It is looking to me the left block may have been damaged (I can't inspect it at all without removing the slide out). The damage to the block is damaging the Darco. The Darco was patched, the patch failed and now the glue from the patch is marking the carpet. This is my theory.

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Old 10-02-2021, 11:26 AM   #9
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In my experience "patched" darco is just a bad temporary fix that will come off sooner rather than later and cause the kinds of problems (an more) you are looking at.

Has the darco been ruined....as in perforated, by the bar on the bottom? If so you may need to patch it then cover it. A different thread recently discussed a leak caused by the darco being torn up and slide skis I believe were going to be the solution. In your case they would probably work as well. IMO if you do use them you can use repair tape as it appears they already have on yours then put the skis over it so it doesn't get ripped off by that bar under the slide. The link is to a video that pertains to repairing a leak but you have the same type situation.

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Old 10-02-2021, 05:48 PM   #10
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Danny;
Thanks for the reply and vid. I like what the vid fellow did. My challenge is going to be finding "skis" wide enough to cover the block and damaged area. The block seems to be about 8-9 inches wide and it's spaced in from the outer edge a bit as well but the concept is great.

One valuable piece of information I also got from the vid is jacking up the slide out. Given one can't go very far at all perhaps an inch at most but that "may" allow me to see what is in there and asses damage.

I noticed in the factory tour videos of Keystone that the newer rigs with slide outs have a roller system. I would like to investigate adding something like that as well.
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Old 10-02-2021, 06:24 PM   #11
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Rollers may or may not fix your problem. The rollers on this one were askew as best I could tell and kept tearing up the darco but that is resolved.

I was afraid the skis might be too narrow for yours. I installed uhmw strips (12") on my last trailer over the torn up areas and didn't have a problem again. On this one the darco started deteriorating on the first trip and Keystone installed uhmw bottoms on my big slides.
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Old 10-03-2021, 04:26 AM   #12
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UHMW strips are a permanent repair to torn Darco.. the slide you have rides over a UHMW wear bar strip as well..
Anything stuck on top of Darco on a hyd slide out bottom floor covering will just make a bigger problem than what you had

Video of my repair…

https://youtu.be/EtgzzhXodlk
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Old 10-03-2021, 07:05 PM   #13
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What today went like. Thanks SD for the video you referenced. It gave me an idea. Kind of a "duh!" moment. The idea of putting a jack under the slide out to lift it. I have almost 2" of play and it was enough for me to confirm just what the slide out is riding on. Ref the first picture. It's hard to make out in the photo but there is a half moon shaped block about 7" wide made of black UHMW. So the three blocks I could feel with the knife blade are now explained. The blocks are in good shape and no prominent scoring or grooves.

Next I carefully peeled off what chunks were left of the Darco tape that had been applied and proceeded to clean up the mess it made as it failed. My first attempt was lacquer thinner after testing it on a piece of the removed Darco to make sure it did not eat it...all was fine on the test but removing the adhesive was painfully slow and smeary. I then tried a brief section with "goof off" ...it was less effective than the lacquer thinner. I scrubbed more....ugh! Then I though I might try my old stand by for removing goo and not hurting the plastic under...WD40. That worked MUCH better and no gloves needed any longer. It was still slow but after about a 55 gallon drum of elbow grease, all traces of the Darco patch material was removed. Took over two hours total I would guess. Then I though to try it on the carpet. Wow! Made all that adhesive smear just ball up and brush off. Some surprisingly large chunks too. I then had at it with my little green clean machine and shampooed out the remaining WD40 and the next picture is the end results.

Now to repairs, this next photo shows the slight damage to the factory Darco "they" tried to fix with the tape. Just some slight fraying and only one hole about 1/8th across. Since those "trays" shown in the vid SD referenced are too narrow to reach in and cover the damage and they seem a tad too flimsy to last long. I really liked the UHMW strips ChuckS used and thank you for making that video. It answered all questions as to how you went about it. I will be ordering some from McMaster Carr tonight.
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Old 10-03-2021, 07:58 PM   #14
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I've used uhmw under my slides for years. Make sure you get it attached so it can't shift and seal it on all sides so water can't wick under it if you don't put a patch strip under the uhmw. Chuck's video is basically what I've done in the past. First time I used 12" wide strips. On this trailer the I had the entire slide bottoms covered with uhmw. It will stop the fraying, tearing and holes where water can come in. If you have damage on just one side be sure and put the strips on both to keep it even. First go round I put 3 12" strips on each big slide; each end and the middle. In the end I could have gotten away with one on each end. Good luck and MAKE SURE those screw heads are recessed or they will eat that wear bar right up and then it WILL be a bear to repair.
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Old 10-03-2021, 09:27 PM   #15
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The only change from chuck's vid I am thinking of is to lift the slide out and put the UHMW in far enough that ramps are not needed then re-adjust rack and pinion to ensure full engagement. I am thinking 1/4" thick should be just about right such that the countersunk screws have material to hang on to and still be below the surface. Another option would be 1/8" thick but wider than the Keystone glide blocks so the screws could be pan head along the edges but never travel over the glide blocks, just pass on each side of the blocks
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Old 10-04-2021, 05:20 AM   #16
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My trailers have had continuous wear bars so the option of putting wider strips than the bar and then attaching it wasn't an option....I like it. Also my strips have always extended beyond the wear bar BUT I will say that those were installed by the dealer because the slide had to be hyper extended (pulled out of the hole) so that screws could be put in the front edge. In your case if you can raise the slide, insert the strip and then attach it along the sides where it doesn't contact the wear bar that strip won't be going anywhere.

I've heard of folks using 1/4" but not seen it. In theory it seems like it would be better but in reality that is pretty thick to be placing under the slide and then expecting the slide drive mechanisms to "just adjust" and work normally for the long haul. If you place strips wider than the wear bars then the need for countersinking would be moot. UHMW is stout stuff so don't think a panhead screw is going to tear out/pull through...especially with multiple screws in the strip.

Some things to think about that I had done to this one;

UHMW is strong and pretty inflexible even at 1/8" but it IS a plastic type material. On the ends of the slides the darco wraps up under the end transition strips to prevent water running under the darco. Placing strips up to the edge and leaving that little strip of darco leaves a place (IMO) that could possibly get perforated and leak somewhere down the road. I had the ends of the UHMW heated and bent/formed to go around that edge and slide up under the transition strip so there was a seamless bottom (similar to what you saw with the slide skis). Also, depending on how the inside of your trailer is made you can do the same thing inside on the interior edges. My kitchen slide has a long trim board the length of the slide (14'?) on the bottom. We pulled it off, formed the uhmw along that edge, routered the trim board for clearance and then reinstalled with nice looking screws to secure the strip and uhmw vs staples. The other side was carpet so it was pulled up, the uhmw formed and attached then the carpet put back down.

Just some things to think about as you only want to do this once with no future problems. I would have gone with strips again had this not been the 2nd new trailer that had the issue so decided to do a full court press on Keystone. They replaced the entire slide bottoms with uhmw vs strips so hopefully my "darco issues" are behind me. Good luck on your project.

Edit: changed the word in read from routed to routered. Sorry for any confusion.
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Old 10-05-2021, 03:48 AM   #17
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The UHMW strips I installed on the edges of my torn Darco have been there now since early April. I used 1/8 thick as that is all that’s needed. The stuff is used on escalators and places where high load is at needed smooth motion.?

I did not need to adjust either gear pack as the teeth on the gears are fully meshed with the guide bar teeth.

Camping is 18 degree weather right now and no issues with slide out opening smoothly and quickly.

My screws are countersunk and no issues with damage to wear bars.

Permanent repair for me.DARCO is junk
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Old 10-05-2021, 07:35 AM   #18
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[QUOTE=ChuckS;471390]The UHMW strips I installed on the edges of my torn Darco have been there now since early April. I used 1/8 thick as that is all that’s needed. The stuff is used on escalators and places where high load is at needed smooth motion.?

I did not need to adjust either gear pack as the teeth on the gears are fully meshed with the guide bar teeth.

Camping is 18 degree weather right now and no issues with slide out opening smoothly and quickly.

My screws are countersunk and no issues with damage to wear bars.

Permanent repair for me.DARCO is junk[/QUOTE]


Chuck you are right on both counts. I've not had any problem with uhmw showing any kind of wear after years of use once installed. The only thing I've ever seen are the shiny lines where it is contacting the wear bar, and IMO, that only makes is "slicker". It's good stuff and permanent IMO as well.

Darco IS junk and I have no idea why Keystone loves the stuff and continues to use it.....well, yes I do; it's cheap and easy. I have talked to 2 product line managers within Keystone about its use and what a miserable product it is for the use they put it to and both were maybe not surprised but pushed back that it was a failure. Both told me they didn't get any complaints about it. I referenced all the failures I've seen and heard about, the fixes owners try to come up with and the damages folks incur. Found that they don't know a thing about any issues with their products past the warranty stage....that's all they look at or gets reported to them. They watch a "top 5" report that is generated to pinpoint problems within their product line. Darco typically fails just outside that 12mo. timeline so it never gets up on that list. When I told them to just think about that cheap, thin, woven plastic with hundreds of pounds sitting on it rubbing back and forth over a wear bar thousands of times over a period of years (hopefully they want their products to be worry free for years) and the issues it was going to have I felt I was talking to myself - it wasn't on the "top 5" list.
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Old 10-05-2021, 09:04 PM   #19
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Keystones hesitancy is typical of bean counters but it seems to me the cost of a say 1/16 thick UHMW covering the entire bottom of slide outs held in place with adhesive could not add even a tenth of a percent to the total cost of this class of RV.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshka View Post
Keystones hesitancy is typical of bean counters but it seems to me the cost of a say 1/16 thick UHMW covering the entire bottom of slide outs held in place with adhesive could not add even a tenth of a percent to the total cost of this class of RV.
To put this statement into perspective:

If it costs Keystone $10,000 to build a trailer, then one tenth of one percent of that cost would be $10.

Amazon lists 4"x48" sheets of UHMW 1/8" thick for $32.99. It would take a minimum of 2 sheets to place one on each end of one slide. With two slides, that would be 33x4= $132. https://www.amazon.com/UHMW-Sheet-1-...3526324&sr=8-4 To cover the entire bottom of the slide would be substantially more. How much? Who knows, but for "guessing purposes, let's say $200 per slide for the material at retail. Assuming Keystone can buy UHMW at wholesale at half the retail price, that would be $100, just for the material. Installation costs, tooling costs, time on the assembly line not included, the "cost to Keystone" is significantly more than "one tenth of one percent"....

While I agree with the "sentiment" of the statement, the "reality" of it is not substantiated. The cost of replacing DARCO with UHMW sheeting would assuredly cost Keystone more than $10. How much more is an answer none of us can estimate, given the lack of knowledge about how much Keystone pays for supplies, labor, equipment, time on assembly line for each trailer they produce......

Adding UHMW strips to the slides on a Keystone trailer would not improve the "overall trailer" enough to put it in the "quality range of a superior built competitor" but that $100 to the wholesale cost of a Keystone trailer would assuredly price it over the "intended competition"....

So, to Keystone, the question would likely be: When buyers don't even know how many holding tanks are in the trailer they purchase, how much it weighs or where the water pump is located, is it really going to be a "sales advantage" to increase the cost by installing a more durable product under the slide edges?

So, sure it would be "nice" if Keystone installed a more reliable product under their slides, but in the "grand scheme of marketing recreational vehicles in today's RV buyers", does it matter????? I'd suspect, to Keystone, both engineering and bean counters, the answer is clear.....
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