Winterizing- Antifreeze necessary?

[Pjw73nh]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

"Do I need to winterize when not in use for just a couple weeks?"

Set a bowel of water under the trailer. Will it freeze up? If it does, you need to winterize, even for a couple weeks. If it does not, you don't need to.

How you winterize is your choice: Air or pink-stuff. The reason some folks don't like to use the pink-stuff is because it leave a residual taste that takes some time to flush out of the water lines. Pink-stuff is not toxic. It's food grade, although I don't think it would make a very taste margarita, even if the rim of the glass is salted!.

I like the idea of a "test bowl". Good one. But as far as this:

<<<Pink-stuff is not toxic. It's food grade, >>>

Not entirely true. There are at least 3 types of "pink stuff" that I know of. Two contain ethanol (flammable and toxic). One is strictly propylene glycol. Non-toxic (and about 2-3 times the price.

[Pjw73nh]

I blow out my lines with compressed air, then pump in non-toxic pink stuff. The non-toxic is more expensive than the toxic, cheap stuff, but I prefer it because it leaves less taste and is not flammable). Then, I blow out the pink stuff with air, catch it in a receptacle and pour some of it down the drains and into the traps. The rest I save for the next vehicle, or the next year. I test it before reusing it to be sure it's still effective and hasn't lost its protection.

[notanlines]

I’m afraid I have to differ here. At $7.50 per gallon for the ‘good stuff, non-toxic” I believe I would NOT be saving anything. Bass Pro Shops.
No, I’m not particularly frugal in these matters, just wanting those less experienced to aware of the pitfalls.

[larryflew]

We do the pink mostly because there is still freezing weather when we get back to Minnesnowta from winter retreat and it's just quicker when its 15 degrees F. If you do buy your "good" pink stuff in summer when it's cheap and NEVER look for it in that warm climate your leaving since they know where your going and why you need it. In Mn the late spring prices get down to the 3 buck range. Only freezing we have had doing either way where 4 toilet valves in different rigs (cheap generic replacements available at Amazon) and are not a difficult replacement.

[WJQ]

Just follow the advice above and you will be OK. Here is something I can add.

In 2005 I bought a used Bounder 34G model year 2000. Before that I had a camp trailer and used to blow it out. The Bounder had a low point drain! Whoopee! Just open the vales and I am winterized. Wrong. It is a good thing that I had a neighbor kid that was small enough to crawl into the place I could not reach. I handed him the PVC glue and precut parts and we got it fixed.
After that experience, I used a large air compressor to blow out the lines for the next 15 years.

I now use antifreeze as it is easier. My current RV uses only about 1.5 gallons of antifreeze (with the water heater bypassed) and at $2.77 per gallon at Walmart, it is about $5 to do the job. My storage location does not have a large air compressor. Over all of these years, I have lived in Idaho and Utah where it gets cold, really cold. Thus, proper winterizing is critical.

[PetersonPower]

Originally Posted by joe315

Is the use of antifreeze(pink stuff) absolutely required?
I've seen several recommendations to just drain and blow out the water...

Do I need to winterize when not in use for just a couple weeks?

I will say it depends on the temperatures expected when and where your travel pal is stored. Are there going to be two consecutive days of below freezing temps?
A 48hrs of freezing temps and if the is any water in your pipes, faucets, water pump and you are likely to see damage.
Just drying the pipes or blowing them out helps. I used to only blow the plumbing out, but still had some issues. I now use antifreeze every year.
If I use it while freezing temps continue, I bring my own water and only use the toilet.
If only night time temps will break 32F for a couple hours, you should be safe.
Remember it only takes a small amount of water trapped in the water pump to freeze and compromise it.

[jxnbbl]

Where we live there will be a couple of days to a couple of weeks with negatives getting to -15...so I opt for the insurance. Like my boat engine (inboard/outboard). I use antifreeze.



For the trailer:


1. disconnect the black tank flush anti siphoning valves.

2. blow out all the lines (empty all the tanks...including HW tank)
3. add antifreeze and run until I see it come out.


traps have antifreeze in them by definition.

[PetersonPower]

Originally Posted by TimC

I live in Wisconsin. My trailer is stored in my driveway and has seen temps as low as -45. My winterizing routine is drain and bypass water heater, and blow out the lines. Make sure to open all faucets when the air compressor is hooked up, including outdoor shower. I also open my low point drains and blow some air through there. After blowing the lines I add some rv antifreeze to every drain and the toilet.

As far as black tank flush, I’ve never messed with it. Maybe it’s not a bad idea to blow it out (I never really thought about it for some reason). But, the lines in my camper are PEX (as I’m sure most are). PEX is far more forgiving when freezing than the copper you find in your home (I know from experience). Also, if there is no pressure and any open end, the water will have room to expand. So, I don’t necessarily agree with the comments that any little water left will cause problems. Perhaps I’m just lucky, but considering the extreme temperatures my camper is subjected to here in Wisconsin (I’ve seen the “pink stuff” freeze solid in my toilet before), I’m thinking it’s not just luck.

Water freezing is a tricky thing. As mentioned there needs to be room to expand. Open pipe might not completely prevent damage.
Water can freeze to the plastic surrounding it. So it can freeze, stick to the plastic and not be able to expand into an empty space. in most cases, the pressure trapped in this section of pipe will not exceed the plastic strength. Fill a water bottle half full of water. Freeze it and look at the bottle around the frozen water. It will be stretched out.
This is a situation where copper beats plastic.

Elbows and joints are problematic.

Particularly challenging though are tight spaces like in the water pump where it can be difficult to get it completely dry.
In tight spaces like the water pump a small amount of water can expand to exceed the strength of the pump assembly. Aside from worn seals this is a likely source of a pump that can not maintain pressure.

Happy winterizing, how ever you choose to do it. Or just live in a warm climate 😉

[TimC]

Originally Posted by PetersonPower

Water freezing is a tricky thing. As mentioned there needs to be room to expand. Open pipe might not completely prevent damage.
Water can freeze to the plastic surrounding it. So it can freeze, stick to the plastic and not be able to expand into an empty space. in most cases, the pressure trapped in this section of pipe will not exceed the plastic strength. Fill a water bottle half full of water. Freeze it and look at the bottle around the frozen water. It will be stretched out.
This is a situation where copper beats plastic.

Elbows and joints are problematic.

Particularly challenging though are tight spaces like in the water pump where it can be difficult to get it completely dry.
In tight spaces like the water pump a small amount of water can expand to exceed the strength of the pump assembly. Aside from worn seals this is a likely source of a pump that can not maintain pressure.

Happy winterizing, how ever you choose to do it. Or just live in a warm climate 😉

I disagree, there’s nothing tricky at all about freezing water. It expands and can wreck things, seems like a pretty simple concept to me.

The main question here was whether or not antifreeze is necessary. The answer is no, it’s not. Blowing water lines with compressed air is pretty common and it’s effective (assuming you do it right, although same could be said for using antifreeze).

I’m not arguing that using antifreeze is a bad thing. In fact, it’s a pretty simple and cheap way to winterize an RV (in my opinion). But, I find it silly how some (definitely not all) on multiple forums regarding winterization try to convince people that a few drops of water left over in the pipes will absolutely cause devastating damage, which is not likely to be the case unless you just do a terrible job at winterizing (which again can be true even using antifreeze).

Anyway, like I said, using the rv antifreeze is a super simple way to winterize, so for those considering it I’d say you should do it unless you have some reason not to. For example, my reason for not using antifreeze is because I usually use my camper a few times in the winter. I don’t feel like flushing the antifreeze from the lines every time I want to use the camper. So, it’s just easier for me to use an air compressor and blow the lines.

As far as your last comment on just living in a warmer climate. Well, you got me on that one. I ask the wife every winter why we still live here. I do like the seasons, and snow (on occasion), but the frigid temps are getting old.

[quaddriver]

2 quick hits....'non toxic' is not the same as edible or even tasty. i dont use the pink (which had better be propylene glycol, ethylene or methylene glycol will f you up.) but if you dont get ALL of the pink out, you have a darn good chance of riding the plastic throne with the unholy craps....


and when you use air to blow the lines, keep it below 40psi - dont use the same setting you do for your impact wrench or you will bust it in 90 places (i've put more than one of these back together for people. AND dont use air lines that had tool oil thru them or else...unholy craps again, and it has to be after a filter/sep so you dont get trace amounts of compressor oil (these are your drinking and cooking water lines)

[precab]

Originally Posted by joe315

Is the use of antifreeze(pink stuff) absolutely required?
I've seen several recommendations to just drain and blow out the water...

Do I need to winterize when not in use for just a couple weeks?

Having used the Air compressor for a few years to blow out the water lines has worked well.

However year #3 even the residual water in the external blank/gray surprised me and one year cracked the PVC pipe outside and behind the external drain valve. Tanks were well drained and I assumed safe from freeze.....Hence I learned even with near empty gray/blank tank CERTAINLY needs to add antifreeze even if you feel the tanks are empty.

It was a very easy repair with cheap PVC pipe but lesson learned.

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by precab

Having used the Air compressor for a few years to blow out the water lines has worked well.

However year #3 even the residual water in the external blank/gray surprised me and one year cracked the PVC pipe outside and behind the external drain valve. Tanks were well drained and I assumed safe from freeze.....Hence I learned even with near empty gray/blank tank CERTAINLY needs to add antifreeze even if you feel the tanks are empty.

It was a very easy repair with cheap PVC pipe but lesson learned.

I never had that problem and you cant blow out the drains...did you have a 'mud plug' that held back water? nevertheless, you can pour down the drain ANY antifreeze when you get down to it and to be honest, if you have an unused bottle of 'deathcool' it will serve you better down the ****ter drain than in your radiator....

[precab]

Originally Posted by quaddriver

I never had that problem and you cant blow out the drains...did you have a 'mud plug' that held back water? nevertheless, you can pour down the drain ANY antifreeze when you get down to it and to be honest, if you have an unused bottle of 'deathcool' it will serve you better down the ****ter drain than in your radiator....

In my case, when I drained by tanks camping prior to a freeze its likely a gallon or so eventually settled right behind the exterior drain valve. Post freeze it sprung a leak about 6 inches behind the valve in the exposed portion outside the bottom of the TT. So now I add antifreeze even if the tanks are "empty" and since going to the Geo method on the black tank it will never be fully empty.