Tail wagging the dog? - Page 3

quaddriver · 09-20-2021, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flybouy

"The truck probably was fine to tow it..." Really? You mean the truck that WAS hitched to it just before violently ending up in pieces in the ditch?

well I watched all the videos and pulled up the specs on the truck and trailer best I could.

Truck can pull 6700lbs and the trailer model is appx 4800 light. From the wreckage videos and what they put into that tiny box, I dont see 400lbs of belongings they salvaged. So, not being there, they were either under the limits from a lot to juuuust over them.

the big hits I saw are no w/d, no sway control, I swear they have a 2" ball and Id bet your kids its a 2 5/16 setup...(I might go so far as to say cause of crash was ball sep....) and I cannot prove they even had a brake controller. <---that part is insane, but I could be wrong.

all the videos show them much much slower than traffic...so this sits on both sides of the fence

From the pre-wreck videos, it aint squatted down meaning light TW...either they rear compensated (2nd worst thing you can do) but from the throne in the rear Im thinking the storage space was not there, therefore perhaps they concentrated the mass in the center - the absolute worst thing...more so than a bad TW. (hint: think of a figure skater doing a twirl)

Im still votin ball sep.

everyone starts out at a first time. to be honest, Id rather see a person with a capable, but lower end of capable truck, pulling trailers going low and slow and willing to learn, rather than the 400hp crowd stormin up the grapevine being an 'expert'....

not saying they didnt make mistakes, but they got the best attitude about improvement I have even seen. The best version of a bad event happened.

ETA: aha, from the owner:

Quote:

We tried to keep everything heavy over the wheels and distribute evenly throughout everything else.

center mass dilemma...

**flybouy** · 09-20-2021, 11:33 AM

Wow that's some detective work there. The way I see it I can't make a determination to WHY and don't really care. We can speculate until the cows come home but we weren't there nor do we have the information that the real accident investigators have. He could have fell asleep at the wheel, could have blah, blah, blah. All noise IMHO including their video. I still think they got into something "blinded by a dream" with inadequate equipment and zero knowledge or information. I see that as nothing more that pure cluelessness.
JMHO, YMMV

travelin texans · 09-20-2021, 11:55 AM

QUOTE: Truck can pull 6700lbs and the trailer model is appx 4800 light. QUOTE

That sounds like exactly what their rv salesman probably told them!
The problem is that in the real world of rving that tow rating means ABSOLUTELY nothing.
The pertinent numbers are/were posted on the truck door jamb & the drivers side front corner of the rv. There is no where on either of those postings is that "max tow weight" listed.
The dry weight of RVs is posted somewhere on RVs, but is also ABSOLUTELY useless to the consumer after it reaches the dealer.

quaddriver · 09-20-2021, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flybouy

Wow that's some detective work there. The way I see it I can't make a determination to WHY and don't really care. We can speculate until the cows come home but we weren't there nor do we have the information that the real accident investigators have. He could have fell asleep at the wheel, could have blah, blah, blah. All noise IMHO including their video. I still think they got into something "blinded by a dream" with inadequate equipment and zero knowledge or information. I see that as nothing more that pure cluelessness.
JMHO, YMMV

well yea, but Im actually talking to them now...I told ya, they have the best attitude.

quaddriver · 09-20-2021, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelin texans

QUOTE: Truck can pull 6700lbs and the trailer model is appx 4800 light. QUOTE

That sounds like exactly what their rv salesman probably told them!
The problem is that in the real world of rving that tow rating means ABSOLUTELY nothing.
The pertinent numbers are/were posted on the truck door jamb & the drivers side front corner of the rv. There is no where on either of those postings is that "max tow weight" listed.
The dry weight of RVs is posted somewhere on RVs, but is also ABSOLUTELY useless to the consumer after it reaches the dealer.

I got those numbers from the OEMs. we will never know the full 'on road' truth as most of it is in a landfill.....but it appears on the surface, it aint the mismatch people are hoping for...

**flybouy** · 09-20-2021, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaddriver

well yea, but Im actually talking to them now...I told ya, they have the best attitude.

That's great that you trust them implicitly to tell you the truth. Like I said, I really am not interested so carry on!

jasin1 · 09-20-2021, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaddriver

I got those numbers from the OEMs. we will never know the full 'on road' truth as most of it is in a landfill.....but it appears on the surface, it aint the mismatch people are hoping for...

It’s clearly a mismatch lol the proof is all over the highway…they admitted it also…the overwhelming and almost unanimous conclusion from almost everyone that commented on all of their YouTube videos as well as their ticket they received would paint a different picture …either your trolling or joking…. one or the other …. You could get a job as a White House press secretary with this analysis

I’m gonna lean towards joking for the benefit of the doubt as you seem like “good people”

quaddriver · 09-20-2021, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasin1

It’s clearly a mismatch lol the proof is all over the highway…they admitted it also…the overwhelming and almost unanimous conclusion from almost everyone that commented on all of their YouTube videos as well as their ticket they received would paint a different picture …either your trolling or joking…. one or the other …. You could get a job as a White House press secretary with this analysis

I’m gonna lean towards joking for the benefit of the doubt as you seem like “good people”

hmmm.

Safe? or unsafe?: (I used a crappy cell phone camera at a 3/4 perspective...does not show depth well...that SUV is pulling a 21 ft 4" boat, 26ftish ball to prop)

jasin1 · 09-20-2021, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaddriver

hmmm.

Safe? or unsafe?: (I used a crappy cell phone camera at a 3/4 perspective...does not show depth well...that SUV is pulling a 21 ft 4" boat, 26ftish ball to prop)

That is a semi aerodynamic.low center of gravity balanced load… I don’t have the interest or energy to debate this issue but …on a flat road towing it will probably pull it just fine…if you had to do any defensive driving you would probably end up like the video…and you will pull the guts out of that suv if you back it off the drop off on a boat ramp or have a boat ramp that is steep….I’ve had boats of all kinds since I was about 5 years old …
… ( none of this part is relevant…just qualifying myself) …I’ve towed boats with a bunch of different vehicles. I had a 24’ sear ray sorrento on a tandem trailer… that boat was around 4000 lbs if I rememeber correctly…it was a heavy boat to pull up the boat ramp…yours is probably around 3000lbs

Don’t know the reasoning for arguing the truck in the video is a good choice …maybe you will convince some other newbie that they will be good to go.
Have a good day

**sourdough** · 09-20-2021, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaddriver

well yea, but Im actually talking to them now...I told ya, they have the best attitude.

If I were them I'd have a stellar attitude. By any account they should be either dead or in jail.

quaddriver · 09-20-2021, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasin1

That is a semi aerodynamic.low center of gravity balanced load… I don’t have the interest or energy to debate this issue but …on a flat road towing it will probably pull it just fine…if you had to do any defensive driving you would probably end up like the video…and you will pull the guts out of that suv if you back it off the drop off on a boat ramp or have a boat ramp that is steep….I’ve had boats of all kinds since I was about 5 years old …have two 35’ boats now and my son has his captains license… ( none of this part is relevant…just qualifying myself) …I’ve towed boats with a bunch of different vehicles. I had a 24’ sear ray sorrento on a tandem trailer… that boat was around 4000 lbs if I rememeber correctly…it was a heavy boat to pull up the boat ramp…yours is probably around 3000lbs

Don’t know the reasoning for arguing the truck in the video is a good choice …maybe you will convince some other newbie that they will be good to go.
Have a good day

It was 4710lbs last cat drop and it could go +/- 150 easy. The point is Im seeing a lot of judgments without fact. Dismaying. Just joined and one of the first threads I read....

I bought that SUV in the picture because it came in EXACTLY where I needed it to be. And I dont have a son with a captains license. I do.

Instead of calling these people names, I found that the mismatch the experts are calling for aint as bad as assumed. It was a lack of required equipment and a faulty load. As I said, everyone starts with a first tow. IF my first impression of a website supposedly dealing with trailers and the 'stuff' attached to owning them, is people calling strangers names - who are TRYING to be better - and calling into question everything about them, then I see no reason to continue. People should be ashamed. But they are not, ergo...

jasin1 · 09-20-2021, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaddriver

It was 4710lbs last cat drop and it could go +/- 150 easy. The point is Im seeing a lot of judgments without fact. Dismaying. Just joined and one of the first threads I read....

I bought that SUV in the picture because it came in EXACTLY where I needed it to be. And I dont have a son with a captains license. I do.

Instead of calling these people names, I found that the mismatch the experts are calling for aint as bad as assumed. It was a lack of required equipment and a faulty load. As I said, everyone starts with a first tow. IF my first impression of a website supposedly dealing with trailers and the 'stuff' attached to owning them, is people calling strangers names - who are TRYING to be better - and calling into question everything about them, then I see no reason to continue. People should be ashamed. But they are not, ergo...

They lost my sympathy when they begged for money….go fund me should be saved for people with real needs…kids that lost their fathers …widows…not you tubers trying to get people to cough up money to fund a lifestyle….

I have no more sympathy for them then the grifters begging for a dollar for a quart of oil at gas stations from 10 different people..

Congrats on the captains license …six pack ? Or 50,100 ton? Sons is 50 ton. ( passed test for 100 ton) It’s based on seatime and tonnage of boats owned/operated… Being a captain you should understand about overloaded boats and safety….surprised the tack you took on this one…anyway no hard feelings …did enjoy your post about light bulbs

**sourdough** · 09-20-2021, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaddriver

It was 4710lbs last cat drop and it could go +/- 150 easy. The point is Im seeing a lot of judgments without fact. Dismaying. Just joined and one of the first threads I read....

I bought that SUV in the picture because it came in EXACTLY where I needed it to be. And I dont have a son with a captains license. I do.

Instead of calling these people names, I found that the mismatch the experts are calling for aint as bad as assumed. It was a lack of required equipment and a faulty load. As I said, everyone starts with a first tow. IF my first impression of a website supposedly dealing with trailers and the 'stuff' attached to owning them, is people calling strangers names - who are TRYING to be better - and calling into question everything about them, then I see no reason to continue. People should be ashamed. But they are not, ergo...

"Everyone starts with a first tow"? They said initially they went to get their beloved Avenger out of storage so I question "first tow". Putting what appears to be a 2 5/16 coupler on a 2" ball has nothing to do with "first tow" but more....... No wdh or sway on a trailer that big with a Frontier? Come on. First tow?

I was a first time tower as was everyone else on this and any other RV forum. Everyone tries to do their due diligence as best they know how. Somehow there had to be a question in their minds of "what am I doing here", "what do I need to do", "what am I SUPPOSED to do" before I just take off across the country totally oblivious to any/all towing rules, regulations and laws. With the internet there is no excuse for that level of ignorance but they certainly appear to have just forgone that kind of mandatory exercise.

Now, maybe they are that lacking in intelligence; maybe they were just swept away in a moments notice and flew the coop without a single thought (there's a word for that) and maaayyyybbeeee it was all just a "dumb" (read dangerous, irresponsible, illegal etc.) mistake. That might be taken into account except; from the gitgo they made videos that were obviously orchestrated to maximize their "horrible" (self caused) plight. Then had the nerve to start a go fund me page to help them "start all over again", and, maybe....folks could give them enough money to get them a new Class C. What the heck?? IMO talk about shysters.

I can see it now; all those folks thinking they're so nice, had such a terrible, inexplicable act of fate happen to them.....give them money so they can get that Class C and then drive head on into a van with a family while in that same state of "ignorance". Heaven help me.

Some folks encounter bad luck through no doing of their own and deserve help. Some folks are ignorant and make mistakes. Some folks do both, are clueless then want someone to bail them out so they can go do it again because....they don't care. BTDT No one here is calling them names, they have been called out for what they did. The potential for death and devastation on that highway was great due to their actions...period. They survived because the others on that road were being looked out for.

Ken / Claudia · 09-20-2021, 05:35 PM

You folks are to tough on them, and their cat is now without a home and stressed out. I sent them a check written for 5,000. So the cat can have a new home. The check should be good, I found it in the campground trash dumpster.

Getting a reckless ticket was a no brainier, if the driver killed the passenger or anyone else while out of control all over a freeway. Manslaughter would have been mentioned, hurting anyone else could be a easy assault charge. The prosecutor would be using the word Negligent.

**JRTJH** · 09-20-2021, 07:11 PM

Sitting on the front porch, swinging with Gramps back when I was around 8 or so, he spit off the porch into Grandma's azaleas, slapped me on the shoulder and said, "Boy, ain't no such damn thing as being lucky. You make your own damn luck. If you're smart, you're going to be lucky and if you do stupid, crazy things, you're going to be unlucky."

I've sort of decided from the couple of their videos that they just "ain't lucky"... Can't tell you if their "being unlucky" is a result of the stupid stuff they do or if they're crazy. I won't pass that judgement on them, but I will tell you that when it comes to handling an RV, they ain't got (haven't shown) enough common sense to get in out of the rain.....

I feel sorry for fools that do unfortunate things, but that does not mean that I want to "rearm them so they can do it again"... My concern would be that they might actually kill or severely injure somebody next time... Best place for them is on a Greyhound bus with a reservation at Motel 6....

notanlines · 09-21-2021, 02:23 AM

Ken, save your money. No more checks. I’ve been sending them my BOGO coupons from the mail box.

markcee · 09-21-2021, 04:07 AM

I guess I can contribute as well.

**flybouy** · 09-21-2021, 05:54 AM

To springboard off of John's post....

My defenition of Luck. Bad luck is when lightning strikes your house and sets it on fire. If you set the house on fire by refilling your lawnmower with gas while it's running, well thats not bad luck, that's stupidity. Buying one lottery ticket and winning is luck. Going broke from buying lottery tickets is stupidity.

If you give your newly licensed driver child a "race car" you shouldn't be suprised when they wreck it. Replacing the wrecked race car with another race is is irresponsible, enabling, idiotic? Pick the word that makes you comfortable, it doesn't change the context.

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