Scratching my Head

[RickV]

So I finally got a weight of my TV and 5er. About a week ago I weighed my Truck with a full tank and all but, 150 lbs of stuff that is hauled in the truck but is used in conjunction with the 5er when disconnected. Yesterday when we hooked up and left Rapid City I stopped at the same CAT Scales that I weighed my TV at last week. MY 5er has a shipping weight of 13,508 lbs and a cargo weight of 2992, shipped pin weight is 2620 lbs. So after going on the scale I get the ticket and do the math I am at 3310 pin and have around 1500 lbs of payload available with the TV and the weight on the axles 13130. but, what surprised me and I am having a hard time believing is I am like 50 lbs under the max 5er weight rating of 16500 lbs. All the tanks were empty and one of the 30 lb propane bottles is empty. We have a lot of stuff but, I find it hard to believe we have that much, fridge is full and so is the pantry, I carry a decent sized box tool, a 6 gallon pancake compressor and a tote with fluids, we are on a 5 month road trip so we have clothes for different temps, etc. As a matter of fact we have pretty much everything we used to carry on the previous 5er and was around 1800 lbs over shipping weight. I find it hard to believe I am anywhere near the 2992 lbs of cargo unless someone hid a load of bricks somewhere. Has Climate Change cause gravity changes?

[NH_Bulldog]

I would seriously question ANY factory specification in regard to weight. On mine (bumper pull), the specified tongue weight is 551 lbs. but actual ended up being 960 lbs. even after draining fresh water tank and shifting weight towards rear.

[rhagfo]

Well that is a big 5er, pretty easy to load with 2,900# of stuff, food and cloths.

[flybouy]

This is a prime example of why the *published" weights cannot be trusted. That published empty weight is likely no where near what the actual weight may be. Typically if you get out the big Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass and read the fine print disclosures you'll likely see the weight quoted does not include options. Some "options" are standard but still called options. Often they may include a second air conditioner.

The ojly way to "know the truth" is to do exactly as you did and go weigh the rig. And know you know.

[RickV]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well that is a big 5er, pretty easy to load with 2,900# of stuff, food and cloths.

Like I posted we are not carrying hardly anything more then we usually did with the old 5er and actually carrying less of some stuff. I know I am not carrying anywhere near "1100 lbs" more.

Originally Posted by flybouy

This is a prime example of why the *published" weights cannot be trusted. That published empty weight is likely no where near what the actual weight may be. Typically if you get out the big Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass and read the fine print disclosures you'll likely see the weight quoted does not include options. Some "options" are standard but still called options. Often they may include a second air conditioner.

The ojly way to "know the truth" is to do exactly as you did and go weigh the rig. And know you know.

Well there is a Residential Fridge not sure how much difference there is between that and the Gas ones that is about the only thing that is an option that we have that is listed on their website as optional. I did the calculation and am right at a 20% pin weight ratio.

There is this from their website kinda echos what you posted:

*Throughout the year, Keystone RV may modify model features, floor plans, and specifications. Website data typically reflects the most recent production run, however, any or all of these items are subject to change without notice. Please check with your dealer to for the details specific to the unit you are purchasing. You should also read all labels that are on each trailer for information concerning the safe operation of the unit and its components, actual weight(s), cargo carrying capacity, and tire information. MAKE SURE YOUR TOW VEHICLE IS COMPATIBLE WITH YOUR KEYSTONE RV. Owners of Keystone recreational vehicles are solely responsible for the selection and proper use of tow vehicles. For more information about the safe operation and use of various systems, Keystone service warranties and how to obtain service, extended use, towing, and maintenance, click here to review the Keystone Owner’s Manual. Component and appliance manuals can be found in the trailer.

[RickV]

I just looked and the Sammy Fridge weighs about 100 lbs more then a Dometic or Norcold gas fridge of a similar size.

[Javi]

My guess is that you are underestimating the weight of items that you didn't have in the truck when you weighed it, and probably the amount of stuff you've added to the trailer.

Best way to get �� good numbers is to pull the trailer across the scales and then into a parking spot and unhook and pull the truck back onto the scales with the DW and kids still in the truck.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RickV

So I finally got a weight of my TV and 5er. About a week ago I weighed my Truck with a full tank and all but, 150 lbs of stuff that is hauled in the truck but is used in conjunction with the 5er when disconnected. Yesterday when we hooked up and left Rapid City I stopped at the same CAT Scales that I weighed my TV at last week. MY 5er has a shipping weight of 13,508 lbs and a cargo weight of 2992, shipped pin weight is 2620 lbs. So after going on the scale I get the ticket and do the math I am at 3310 pin and have around 1500 lbs of payload available with the TV and the weight on the axles 13130. but, what surprised me and I am having a hard time believing is I am like 50 lbs under the max 5er weight rating of 16500 lbs. All the tanks were empty and one of the 30 lb propane bottles is empty. We have a lot of stuff but, I find it hard to believe we have that much, fridge is full and so is the pantry, I carry a decent sized box tool, a 6 gallon pancake compressor and a tote with fluids, we are on a 5 month road trip so we have clothes for different temps, etc. As a matter of fact we have pretty much everything we used to carry on the previous 5er and was around 1800 lbs over shipping weight. I find it hard to believe I am anywhere near the 2992 lbs of cargo unless someone hid a load of bricks somewhere. Has Climate Change cause gravity changes?

Are the weights you posted above from the "specifications" in a brochure or are they printed on the decal located at the front right corner of your trailer? Brochures, both from truck manufacturers and from trailer manufacturers are notorious for "boastful lies" (there's no other way to describe their specification weights). Trailer manufacturers nearly always state, "Specifications are for base model trailer. Optional equipment will increase shipping weight"... Then when you go to the "standard/optional equipment" you'll find many items included in a package that is listed as "mandatory option". That's one of the "hide the cards up your sleeve" deceptions used by Keystone and all the other manufacturers. Those "no option options" are not included in the "rosy picture" painted in the specifications chart, but "bite any purchaser squarely on the butt" when they drag their new trailer onto that first CAT scale.

This is not intended to be a "told you so" post, but what you realized at the CAT scale is exactly why me and many others "harp so much about verifying what a new owner is actually towing. Way too many people are "equipped with a too big trailer and a too small truck" simply because they used truck and trailer brochures to do their weight calculations. Had they (like you) used "real world weights" they'd arrive at dramatically different conclusions....

Again, What are the weights reflected on the decal on the front roadside corner of your trailer?

[RickV]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Are the weights you posted above from the "specifications" in a brochure or are they printed on the decal located at the front right corner of your trailer? Brochures, both from truck manufacturers and from trailer manufacturers are notorious for "boastful lies" (there's no other way to describe their specification weights). Trailer manufacturers nearly always state, "Specifications are for base model trailer. Optional equipment will increase shipping weight"... Then when you go to the "standard/optional equipment" you'll find many items included in a package that is listed as "mandatory option". That's one of the "hide the cards up your sleeve" deceptions used by Keystone and all the other manufacturers. Those "no option options" are not included in the "rosy picture" painted in the specifications chart, but "bite any purchaser squarely on the butt" when they drag their new trailer onto that first CAT scale.

This is not intended to be a "told you so" post, but what you realized at the CAT scale is exactly why me and many others "harp so much about verifying what a new owner is actually towing. Way too many people are "equipped with a too big trailer and a too small truck" simply because they used truck and trailer brochures to do their weight calculations. Had they (like you) used "real world weights" they'd arrive at dramatically different conclusions....

Again, What are the weights reflected on the decal on the front roadside corner of your trailer?

Well having enough truck isn't the problem in this case. The numbers on the sticker show:
13840 unloaded which is 290 lbs. over specs on Keystone's website
and 16500 which is the same as website.

[Northofu1]

I think unloaded means no batteries , propane, etc.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RickV

Well having enough truck isn't the problem in this case. The numbers on the sticker show:
13840 unloaded which is 290 lbs. over specs on Keystone's website
and 16500 which is the same as website.

I never had any question that your truck isn't the problem.... It's the way Keystone arrived at the numbers, advertised those numbers and what any certified CAT scale reveals about those "Keystone specifications"....

You're not the only one to have found out "the hard way" that their trailer is heavier than the brochure says it was and that "we never load more than <pick a weight> for any trip, so we'll never max out the trailer payload.....

Sometimes "reality" is much heavier than the brochure and DW's shoes ought to weigh....

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

I think unloaded means no batteries , propane, etc.

That's correct!
No battery/ies, no propane, no liquids, easily a couple hundred pounds plus difference in the "dry" weight once it gets to the dealer.
With a nearly 40' 5th wheel all your "stuff" will add up quickly once you've put things in all the storage spots.

[Ken / Claudia]

This is the reason many tell newbies to think of pulling the RV at GVWR. But about every time the person reply's 1 they always travel light. 2 they will not ever load it up that much. Yeah, really they won't.
Just go to any state/ county/ federal/ private campground and look at all the people camping that left all their fun stuff at home.
What's one of the biggest complaints about many RVs? There are not enough places for storage. Be it the storage compartments/ kitchen/ food/ clothing.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

This is the reason many tell newbies to think of pulling the RV at GVWR. But about every time the person reply's 1 they always travel light. 2 they will not ever load it up that much. Yeah, really they won't.
Just go to any state/ county/ federal/ private campground and look at all the people camping that left all their fun stuff at home.
What's one of the biggest complaints about many RVs? There are not enough places for storage. Be it the storage compartments/ kitchen/ food/ clothing.

Yes, and these will be the same ones that "travel light" and will never carry anything other than a few bottles of water, a dozen eggs and a sleeping bag....That's not what happens with an RV.

[RickV]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I never had any question that your truck isn't the problem.... It's the way Keystone arrived at the numbers, advertised those numbers and what any certified CAT scale reveals about those "Keystone specifications"....

You're not the only one to have found out "the hard way" that their trailer is heavier than the brochure says it was and that "we never load more than <pick a weight> for any trip, so we'll never max out the trailer payload.....

Sometimes "reality" is much heavier than the brochure and DW's shoes ought to weigh....

I knew you weren't questioning my TV, I will probably move some stuff from the 5er into the back seat of the truck to take some load off the 5er axles even though I am under the 14K. When I get home in November I am gonna have to take the the 5er to the dealer to get the delamination of the rear panel fixed. I will unload everything and weigh it again to get a better idea of how much it really weighs.

[notanlines]

Along the lines of what Rhagfo said earlier, 2900 might be a stretch, but here is an accurate number for you to consider. This photo (been posted before) shows all our household goods from our Raptor before we took delivery of the Suites. Weight before and after unloading? 1900 pounds exactly sitting in and on that trailer. We stayed in the Raptor 8 months out of the year, almost full-timing. Hard to believe how much you can pack in an RV. It truly will surprise you. I'm certain that the Suites has in the neighborhood of 2500 pounds tucked away here and there.

[flybouy]

Weight is cumulative and you may not notice it until "the camel's back breaks". Sort of like the old fable about lifting your child everyday and when they reach adulthood youll still be able to lift them up. Nope, doesn't work that way.

[RickV]

I keep thinking about how we could be carrying that much stuff and I just can't fathom it. I may be wrong, I guess I'll find out when I get home and unload it and run it over the scales again.

[JRTJH]

As an example, my trailer is a 2014 Cougar XLite 27RKS. Shipping weight is 7045 and the GVWR is 10K. That leaves 2955 pounds for cargo...

I "thought" NO WAY IN HELL can I put 1.5 TONS of stuff in a 31' fifth wheel....

Our "towing weight" for most trips, ranges somewhere between 9500-9800 pounds. Doing some "quick math" that means our cargo load ranges between 2455 to 2755 pounds....

I repeatedly ask myself, "How in the hell do I cram that much stuff in the few small cargo spaces in this trailer???" The answer: I've no idea, but every time I take it all out to clean or to reorganize, I find a valid need to put it back where it was...... Some of it is "accumulation from trip to trip, but the majority of that "more than a ton of stuff" is not only necessary, but used often enough to be "needed, not wanted"......

It all adds up ..... Since we almost always tow with a full fresh water tank, I can "account for about 350 pounds of that ton... The rest, well, it ain't all "DW's shoes".... Much/most of it is camping equipment, tools, things to use to make dry camping easier and more convenient and I'd guess about 50 pounds is "spare parts" like fuses, LED lights, wiring, butt connectors, PEX clamps, nuts, bolts, screws, nails and such.... Otherwise, "it's more than a ton of camping/trailer stuff"...

[Third Degree]

Maybe that water check valve has failed and you are unknowingly hauling a full or near full tank of fresh water.