Please Help with Towing Capacity

[Fossey2]

Hello everyone!

I need some help with towing capacity as it is ALL GREEK to me!

We bought a 2018 1/2 ton Cougar (Keystone) model 32BHS 5th wheel three years ago.

I freely admit both hubby and I were idiots and took our salesman's word that our truck, a Ford F250 4x4 Super Duty Crew Cab 6.2L V8/3.73 would pull it with no issues.

Keeping in mind we have 4 children, plus all the gear we haul when we go camping (including our 6 bikes), I have started to worry about being way over capacity. We have been vacationing about 4 times a year since we bought it and really haven't experienced any issues.

I have tried to do my research, looking into how much my vehicle can tow vs. the 5th wheel specs and I'm more frustrated than ever because I get conflicting information from every website!

If we can get a straight answer somewhere...it would help us decide if we need to sell our truck and upgrade to a F350 (I'm assuming diesel because from what I've been looking at, they can pull more) but again...I can't make heads or tails of all the info I've read.

We have to stick with Ford because it is the only truck (that I know of) with a middle front row seat that has a shoulder belt and head rest for my kiddos.

Our current vacations have all been about 3 hours travel time and moderate to sometimes steep hills but we are planning a vacation to Yellowstone (From Washington State) sometime next year.

Does anyone have any advice they can share about this issue? I just want to make sure we are "safe" when traveling.

According to Keystone, our 5th wheel specs are:

Dry Weight = 9,160 lbs.
Payload Capacity = 2,340 lbs.
GVWR = 11,500 lbs.
Hitch Weight = 1,835 lbs.

When I researched the Ford website, I found this info for the 2012 F250

5th Wheel Towing with a 3.73 SRW 4x4 Crew cab
GCWR - 19,000
Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight - 12,000

I have no idea if we are in the safe zone or even close! Ugh...

Any thoughts?

Thank you in advance for any insight you provide!

[pikespeakviewer]

Others will chime in on the answers you are looking for, but I wanted to applaud you for being headrest conscious!

[jasin1]

The very first thing I would do is take a picture of the inside of your drivers door jam…there will be a sticker( probably yellow) that says something like ….maximum cargo cannot exceed (x) pounds.
Where are you carrying the bikes?
The gas f250 will have more payload capacity then the diesel (possibly over 3000lbs) but with 6 bikes and 6 people and all the trimmings you may be over the specs.
Your pin weight ( weight from fiver on truck bed) is going to be around 2600 lbs
Then you have to add up everything in the truck including people and things stored in the bed of the truck..including the hitch weight
A trip to the CAT scale would be enlightening ..you may be close depending on the trucks actual payload

Your kids will only get bigger as well as the bikes and things they take with them

Be very careful when shopping for 1 ton trucks with diesels as some trucks are “derated” on paper for registration purposes in effect making them no more capable then 3/4 ton trucks…for example two identical trucks …one may say on window sticker it’s 12400 gvw…and the other may say 10000 gvw…the 10000 will have a smaller rated payload

Good luck and good for you for having this sometimes difficult conversation

I see a bigger truck in your future

[markcee]

What specific issues are you having with the current setup?

As Jaisin said, post a pic of your yellow/white door sticker from the driver's side door jamb. With that size 5th wheel (11.5K GVWR) you should not have an issue exceeding your axle ratings with a 3/4 or 1 ton SRW, it will likely come down to payload capacity. However, I tow an 8500 lb. travel trailer with the same gas engine. I would imagine that 5ver might be a pretty good load if climbing any mountains. It will certainly do it, but not as efficiently as a diesel.

Your trailer will have a realistic pin weight closer to 2600 lbs loaded up (23% of its GVWR of 11.5K). This 2600 will come right off your truck's available payload. The weight of the hitch, the weight of all occupants and other gear in the truck, also come off the payload amount.

Note: While using the door sticker will give you a general idea of payload. The most accurate way to determine it is to load up your truck for camping, fill the tank and go to a CAT scale and weigh it with everyone in the vehicle. Subtract this weight from your truck's GVWR (this can be found on a second door sticker on the same door jamb). This is what you have left to support your trailer's 2600 lb pin weight.

[wiredgeorge]

Easy to figure out if you are towing safely. Gross weight of trailer is 11500 lbs. 23 percent is usually on the mark for the pin weight. That gives your half ton towable (sic) a pin weight of around 2645. As noted, inside your driver door frame is your payload placard. What is the payload from this placard? When you add passengers, stuff in the truck and your hitch your load will be north of 3000 lbs and very few 3/4 ton trucks have payloads in that range. Sorry. And the "half ton towable" marketing lies will have struck another person upside down to the bank.

[JRTJH]

The FIRST step is to get a "TRUE WEIGHT OF YOUR RIG"...

You can do that at any CAT scale for $12 for the first weight and $2 for the second weight.

Drive your "fully loaded, ready to travel" rig onto the scale platform with the truck steering axle on pad 1, the rear axle on pad 2 and the trailer axles on pad 3. Weigh the rig.

Pull off the scales, park in a convenient area, unhitch the trailer, drive back on the scale platform with the steering axle on pad 1 and the rear axle on pad 2. Weigh the truck (with all passengers and cargo except the trailer pin) exactly the same as in the first weight.

Go inside and get your weight slips, pay your $14, hitch the truck and head either camping or home.

Use those "real world weights" to determine your "real world status"...

DO NOT RELY ON BROCHURES OR ADVERTISING GARBAGE TO DETERMINE YOUR WEIGHT STATUS. USE REAL WORLD DATA TO MAKE LIFE/DEATH DECISIONS. Your family's safety depends on you making correct, accurate decisions based on correct, accurate data... Don't guess on your family's safety.

Once you have those two weights, post the weight slips AND the two weight decals on your truck's driver's door jamb and someone will give you the "down and dirty truth" about your rig's weight and capacity.

Here are the locations of the two nearest CAT Scales in your area:

Love's Travel Stop
I-84 Exit 17
Troutdale, OR 97060
Phone:503-665-7741
Street Address:400 N W Frontage Road
Troutdale, OR 97060

TA Troutdale
I-84 & Exit 17
Troutdale, OR 97060
Phone:503-666-1588
Street Address:790 NW Frontage Road
Troutdale, OR 97060

[sourdough]

Congrats on asking a tough question - one that many don't want to hear the answer to.

Start with the gvw of the trailer; 11,500. Approximate pin weight of a 5vr can be 20-25% so figure 23% as George mentioned to get in the ballpark. 23% = 2645lbs. Now you've about reached a deadend in approximating things without further information unless you just use brochure type numbers which are pure bunk.

Get the payload number from the yellow sticker inside the driver door and you can move forward with determining where you are. But for grins let's just guess; you don't give the cab/bed configuration of your truck but let's just guess that the payload is 2900 (this won't be too far off the mark). If that is the case 2900 available less 2645 for the pin = 255lbs. left for people, tools, toys etc. etc........AND the hitch; take 120 from that 255 = 135 left for all of the above.

As you can see when you load 6 people (small ones at that), all the toys (6 bikes etc.), tools and other items you will have left your truck payload way behind in the dust.

IMO with that number of children and the accompanying toys, tools and misc. that is required I would strongly be looking at a 1 ton truck. Watch the payload on any truck you contemplate to make sure the number is big enough. If you go to a diesel they take off several hundred pounds of payload due to their increased weight. Good luck

[travelin texans]

Your questions have throughly answered so I'll just say ATTABOY for asking to insure the safety of your family.
Most come here to get reassurance with the same setup that's too little truck with too much rv & are PO'd when informed of the facts & a good many never log on again, so I'm assuming they're out there on the highway somewhere knowing that they're extremely overloaded so watch out.
Couple other numbers for you;
The max tow weight of ANY truck & the dry weight of ANY rv are absolutely useless when pairing a tow vehicle with a rv! ANYONE spouting those numbers to you have no clue about towing RVs or what numbers to use in the real world.

[Fossey2]

Wow! First off, can I just express how awesome this community is! "Notanlines" sent me here from another forum and he was right! You guys are truly the best! I appreciate ALL the comments, suggestions and ideas expressed so far!

I took a picture of BOTH stickers I will attach here:



I should mention the following:

All the bikes (MAX 300lbs) are carried on/in the 5th wheel itself and not in the truck.

Truck has a short bed

We have a removable "Anderson" hitch (weighs less than 100lbs)

The passengers weight between 800-1000lbs (YIKES)

I would guess the weight we put into the back of the truck (not counting firewood) is about 300lbs.


With the 5th wheel ratings as follows:
Dry Weight = 9,160 lbs.
Payload Capacity = 2,340 lbs.
GVWR = 11,500 lbs.
Hitch Weight = 1,835 lbs.

IF I am interpreting correctly, it means that without anything in the 5th wheel...completely empty it weighs 9,160 lbs.

I'm pretty sure what we store in the 5th wheel, including the bikes, doesn't add up to Payload Capacity = 2,340 lbs. So I THINK we are safe there.

Our only issue is Truck payload right? Or I'm still completely wrong which would NOT surprise me....

Thanks so much!

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Fossey2

Wow! First off, can I just express how awesome this community is! "Notanlines" sent me here from another forum and he was right! You guys are truly the best! I appreciate ALL the comments, suggestions and ideas expressed so far!

I took a picture of BOTH stickers I will attach here:
Attachment 34704
Attachment 34705

I should mention the following:

All the bikes (MAX 300lbs) are carried on/in the 5th wheel itself and not in the truck.

Truck has a short bed

We have a removable "Anderson" hitch (weighs less than 100lbs)

The passengers weight between 800-1000lbs (YIKES)

I would guess the weight we put into the back of the truck (not counting firewood) is about 300lbs.


With the 5th wheel ratings as follows:
Dry Weight = 9,160 lbs.
Payload Capacity = 2,340 lbs.
GVWR = 11,500 lbs.
Hitch Weight = 1,835 lbs.

IF I am interpreting correctly, it means that without anything in the 5th wheel...completely empty it weighs 9,160 lbs.

I'm pretty sure what we store in the 5th wheel, including the bikes, doesn't add up to Payload Capacity = 2,340 lbs. So I THINK we are safe there.

Our only issue is Truck payload right? Or I'm still completely wrong which would NOT surprise me....

Thanks so much!

Unfortunately

Your pretty much right at your payload capacity with just hooking up the fiver to the truck…your likely 1000 lbs or more over your payload on that truck with all of you and the 300 lbs of stuff

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Fossey2

Wow! First off, can I just express how awesome this community is! "Notanlines" sent me here from another forum and he was right! You guys are truly the best! I appreciate ALL the comments, suggestions and ideas expressed so far!

I took a picture of BOTH stickers I will attach here:
Attachment 34704
Attachment 34705

I should mention the following:

All the bikes (MAX 300lbs) are carried on/in the 5th wheel itself and not in the truck.

Truck has a short bed

We have a removable "Anderson" hitch (weighs less than 100lbs)

The passengers weight between 800-1000lbs (YIKES)

I would guess the weight we put into the back of the truck (not counting firewood) is about 300lbs.


With the 5th wheel ratings as follows:
Dry Weight = 9,160 lbs.
Payload Capacity = 2,340 lbs.
GVWR = 11,500 lbs.
Hitch Weight = 1,835 lbs.

IF I am interpreting correctly, it means that without anything in the 5th wheel...completely empty it weighs 9,160 lbs.

I'm pretty sure what we store in the 5th wheel, including the bikes, doesn't add up to Payload Capacity = 2,340 lbs. So I THINK we are safe there.

Our only issue is Truck payload right? Or I'm still completely wrong which would NOT surprise me....

Thanks so much!

Let's break this down. Payload of truck 2,682 - 1k occupants and 100 hitch = 1,582 lbs AT BEST remaining payload. BUT YOU DON’T KNOW. Load it up and go to a scale.

The only number on the trailer that is of any use is the gross wt. Of 11,500 lbs. Pin weight will be around 23% or .23 x 11,500 = 2,645. That's a 1,000 lbs OVER payload. All the other "coulds, shoula, woulda, maybes, I thinks" aren't realistic. Without loading the trailer and weighing it you don't KNOW its weight. I do know that you will be much closer to the trailers max weight than you ever will be to the "empty" weight.

[Fossey2]

We will still weigh everything...but I have a VERY strong feeling that we are going to need an upgrade on our vehicle (unless we are willing to get rid of all the kids )

So does anyone have any recommendation about how to proceed looking at an F350. We can't afford to buy new, even selling the F250 first.

But how do I avoid this same issue when looking for an F350? What questions should ask or what should I look for to ensure it can pull my 5th wheel and all of us in it?

I still want a 4x4
Should I get a long bed/short bed?
Should I get diesel/gas?
SRW or a dually?
Anything else I should look at before purchase?

[JDDilly]

Everyone will have their own opinions to those questions. In my case I have a 3500, long box, dually and diesel. I would never go to anything smaller, someday maybe a 4500. You need to consider your own situation. A long box and dually can be a little tougher as a daily driver, I have never had an issue. You may have to park a little further from the door and walk. The diesel is better for pulling (IMHO) and with braking with the engine brake.

As you are looking, either look for yourself or have the dealer/person send you a photo of the yellow sticker. That will give you the payload of the truck and you can figure how that would do. When I was looking for my current truck, I entered my hitch weight, passengers weight, gear, fuel/DEF (depending on capacity I would have to adjust) and generator weight into a spreadsheet. I would enter the cargo capacity to see if I had any reserve capacity. I wanted 500 LBS or more in reserve so when grandkids were with us, didn't want to worry when adding things to the weight. I have close to 800 LBS, so I feel really comfortable.

[Fossey2]

Originally Posted by JDDilly

Everyone will have their own opinions to those questions. In my case I have a 3500, long box, dually and diesel. I would never go to anything smaller, someday maybe a 4500. You need to consider your own situation. A long box and dually can be a little tougher as a daily driver, I have never had an issue. You may have to park a little further from the door and walk. The diesel is better for pulling (IMHO) and with braking with the engine brake.

As you are looking, either look for yourself or have the dealer/person send you a photo of the yellow sticker. That will give you the payload of the truck and you can figure how that would do. When I was looking for my current truck, I entered my hitch weight, passengers weight, gear, fuel/DEF (depending on capacity I would have to adjust) and generator weight into a spreadsheet. I would enter the cargo capacity to see if I had any reserve capacity. I wanted 500 LBS or more in reserve so when grandkids were with us, didn't want to worry when adding things to the weight. I have close to 800 LBS, so I feel really comfortable.

The yellow sticker idea is great when looking. We have to stick with a Ford as it is the only one that has possible 3 seats in the front with head rest and and shoulder seatbelt. We have 6 kiddos so unless we left one home or tucked one away in to the 5th wheel we are are kind of limited.

[sourdough]

There aren't any really easy ways to make this all work; they all require a lot of research and legwork.

Your budget will dictate what you can spend on the truck which will then drive what you can buy. Figure out what that is then you can look at trucks. Since it needs to be a Ford look at the F350 models without buckets (obviously) in your price range yellow sticker first.

Since you are starting with a clean sheet of paper so to speak and want to tow an 11,500 trailer consider the diesel if it fits the budget. Remember that the diesel will deduct a considerable amount from your available payload so keep that in mind and look at that sticker. If an older truck without the new mega speed transmissions a gas engine will possibly struggle in the right circumstance.

SRW vs DRW - You don't need a dually for that particular trailer BUT with that many kiddos you very well may go to a larger trailer. Look into your crystal ball and if that is in your future you may want to consider it.

Long bed/short bed - Long beds give you more towing capacity and stability. With that size trailer that won't be a big issue but if you go larger you might want it. I like short bed trucks. Before "quad cabs", "extended cabs", "mega cabs" etc. I always had long beds but now with the big cabins they are too long for the garage. Same goes for a dually and a garage door. If you don't have those issues the field is wide open.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Fossey2

The yellow sticker idea is great when looking. We have to stick with a Ford as it is the only one that has possible 3 seats in the front with head rest and and shoulder seatbelt. We have 6 kiddos so unless we left one home or tucked one away in to the 5th wheel we are are kind of limited.

On the bright side, our esteemed govern-mint is going to send you about $7000 per kid per month if I heard the news correctly... you will have plenty to make payments on that new F350. Payload is usually the short pole in the tent as far as ability to safely tow. Check the placard in any prospective buy and also keep in mind that the higher the level of the Ford, the less the payload. Diesel trucks eat payload due the heavier engine and 4x4 as well. If you are shopping online, don't be afraid to have that salesguy run out to the lot and open the driver's door and give you a REAL number.

[jasin1]

Good luck on your search..don’t rule out new trucks right yet as the current price of used trucks is through the roof..you may be able to trade your truck on a new one and get a pretty good deal as more people are looking for f250 trucks that don’t need a dually or a 350 as they only use a truck as a daily driver..you may find a 350 xlt and get a full factory warranty

Your going to be amazed at the weight lifted off your shoulders with the new truck.
The nagging feeling that your family may not be safe with the current setup will virtually disappear.

[Fossey2]

Can you answer a question for me? I contacted a dealer who has a F350 for sale and asked him to send me images of both stickers...but the "yellow" one looks different than mine (I think because it's a newer year) and I can't understand what the max payload is.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Fossey2

Can you answer a question for me? I contacted a dealer who has a F350 for sale and asked him to send me images of both stickers...but the "yellow" one looks different than mine (I think because it's a newer year) and I can't understand what the max payload is.

There is one sticker missing. It’s on the door itself…probably a yellow
Sticker..tell him to open the door then look at the inside jamb of the DOOR itself and the sticker should be there ..it’s possibly next to the other stickers also. But it should be there

[Fossey2]

Originally Posted by JDDilly

As you are looking, either look for yourself or have the dealer/person send you a photo of the yellow sticker. That will give you the payload of the truck and you can figure how that would do. When I was looking for my current truck, I entered my hitch weight, passengers weight, gear, fuel/DEF (depending on capacity I would have to adjust) and generator weight into a spreadsheet. I would enter the cargo capacity to see if I had any reserve capacity. I wanted 500 LBS or more in reserve so when grandkids were with us, didn't want to worry when adding things to the weight. I have close to 800 LBS, so I feel really comfortable.

So can I ask...what does YOUR yellow sticker look like? I feel like I need to be exposed to some others so I know what to look for!