TT for a 5er

[JRTJH]

Eddy,

No issues, we're both on the same side of "safe towing" without overloading the tow vehicle limits.

The "achilles heel" of any 3/4 ton diesel is payload constraints caused by the "arbitrary 10,000 pound GVW limitation" (whether that's a regulatory or physical component limitation is another argument)....

The 3/4 ton diesel is an "ideal platform for towing a travel trailer". It has adequate payload for most trailer tongue weights and power to pull nearly any "heavy load". Where it falls short is in towing a gooseneck or fifth wheel. The payload is simply not sufficient (in most 3/4 ton diesel trucks) to carry the additional pin weight over the rear axle. There's no argument that it still has more than adequate power to "pull the trailer". The issue becomes the ability to "carry the pin load"....

Your gas powered 3/4 ton truck is ideal for smaller to medium size fifth wheels with pin weights in the "less than 2400 pounds when fully loaded" category. You've got the "engine capacity to pull it and the "light weight power plant to allow sufficient payload".... The diesel powered 3/4 ton trucks "give up that payload for added power"... They are "ideally suited" for heavy travel trailers and can pull them flawlessly in most situations. They simply can't, because of that extra 500-800 pounds of engine weight, compete with higher rated 1 ton trucks when it comes to payload....

What the 3/4 ton loses in payload simply can't be recovered with a "heavy pin weight fifth wheel"....

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by ewbldavis

John, valid points. I will admit I was not thinking about the diesel...though GM seems to be working on better payload for diesel 2500's. Hopefully they can all figure it out. Seems pointless to offer it if the truck can't handle enough weight.

Dan - that darn Diesel screws the pooch on 2500's. My payload is 500# more than yours, and that is with only 9500# GVWR!

I hop on here at lunch...dreaming of retirement...only like 20 to go...

Well the way GM and Ford are helping the payload is increasing the GVWR above 10,000# making the truck a Class 3 truck.

[Roper46]

Ok, I'm off work today. Took these with my tablet. Here are some more "numbers" to add to the thread. So what do they all mean?

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Roper46

Ok, I'm off work today. Took these with my tablet. Here are some more "numbers" to add to the thread. So what do they all mean?

As discussed prior, the payload (cargo carrying capacity - listed on the yellow sticker you posted) is your problem. Payload is specific to each vehicle. It depends on option level, engine type, cab configuration etc. The brochure payload numbers you see are for a stripped down, base model vehicle, with a gas engine.

Per your sticker, your specific truck, as equipped, allows for 2096 pounds to be placed in and on it.

This includes the following:

*You and any passengers, pets, coolers or misc. items in the cab of the truck
*The hitch
*The Pin Weight of the 5th wheel (or tongue weight of the travel trailer)
*Any other gear/tools/equipment etc. in the bed of the truck

The 11,000 lb GVWR 5th wheel you were thinking of will have a minimum pin weight of 2200 pounds (20% of GVWR).

As a result, you are over your specific truck's payload capacity before you even get behind the wheel.

Your truck has a good GVWR at 10K and a nice rear axle rating, but unfortunately not the payload capacity to pull that 5th wheel within limits.

As a side note, payload is a fluid number. It is actually your truck's GVWR (10K for you) minus what it weighs at any given time.

To see exactly what you would have to support pin or tongue weight, load up the truck fully for camping (all passengers and gear), fill the gas tank and head to a CAT scale. Subtract the CAT scale weight from 10K and that is what you have left to carry your pin or tongue weight.

If your hitch is not attached to the truck when weighed, don't forget to subtract the weight of it from that balance as well.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Roper46

Ok, I'm off work today. Took these with my tablet. Here are some more "numbers" to add to the thread. So what do they all mean?

Mark summed up the situation pretty well in the previous post. You have entered the "twilight zone" of 3/4 ton diesel truck ownership. Tons of torque to pull a load but the truck does not have the ability to carry the load of a large 5th wheel RV resulting in an overloaded truck (suspension etc.) that can "pull" all day long.

I've often wondered if they shouldn't just pull the option for a diesel in a 3/4 ton truck due to all the confusion they cause with weights, but, if not dealing with a 5th wheel RV the diesel in a 3/4 ton makes a super work truck (and that's what most are used for) so......

The truck will be great for a larger bumper pull TT but with a 2096 payload there won't be enough for a 5th wheel of any size. For reference my 3/4 ton gas truck had a payload of 3200lbs. Might have "carried" the load but wouldn't have the "oomph" to pull it well.

[Northofu1]

The odd part is the truck's GCVWR from Ram is 25,265 lbs yet the payload is 2040 lbs. ??

[sourdough]

Towing weights/numbers are like a rubik's cube - they ALL must align for it to work. The gcvwr number would come into play if ALL other numbers, payload included, can be met...then it becomes a consideration as well. All numbers, as they come to their max threshold presented by the existing combo, must be met. A single weight limit is of no consequence to the rest of the numbers until IT is the one being tested.

[Roper46]

I have read this entire thread and read it again several times. And I understand the max payload stated on my "yellow sticker". I have also read where it is stated that I could get a larger TT without any problem.

However, my current TT has a GVWR of 9500# which times 20% tongue weight would be 1900#. Based on that & my TV max payload of 2097# minus the 1900# tongue weight leaves = 197#. Is this correct for TTs also ?

The two other pics I posted today, one is from the actual door of my TV which appears to show max axle weights? The other pic is taken from my TV owners manual showing max trailer & tongue weights for both the 2500 & 3500 Rams.

Again, I am not disagreeing with any posts here. There are just a LOT of differing numbers post on my TV and in the owners manual.

[sourdough]

There are no "differing" numbers, just different numbers. GAWR is not GVWR which is not payload which is not GCVWR etc. Each is its own entity. Each must be met when that threshold approaches - first to meet max and get exceeded - the question is over and the rest are irrelevant.

I don't know what "says" you can get a larger trailer than what your numbers provide...there is no such thing. As far as calculating the weight on your truck; a bumper pull has "tongue" weight; calculate 13% of the gvwr of the trailer to get approximations if you don't have scale weights. For a 5th wheel that weight jumps to 20-25% of the gvwr of the trailer. Comparing the two as far as weight on a truck is apples to oranges.

You need to always remember that the numbers inside the door of YOUR truck supercede anything you read about, any brochure or any advertisement. YOUR truck capabilities are on the door....period.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Roper46

I have read this entire thread and read it again several times. And I understand the max payload stated on my "yellow sticker". I have also read where it is stated that I could get a larger TT without any problem.

However, my current TT has a GVWR of 9500# which times 20% tongue weight would be 1900#. Based on that & my TV max payload of 2097# minus the 1900# tongue weight leaves = 197#. Is this correct for TTs also ?

The two other pics I posted today, one is from the actual door of my TV which appears to show max axle weights? The other pic is taken from my TV owners manual showing max trailer & tongue weights for both the 2500 & 3500 Rams.

Again, I am not disagreeing with any posts here. There are just a LOT of differing numbers post on my TV and in the owners manual.

I just went through the same thing. Don’t feel bad,it’s probably one of easiest things to overlook when purchasing a diesel truck. I had no idea the payload in my truck was so low.(why even offer fifth wheel prep if payload isn’t adequate)
No amount of trying to think my way out of the problem was possible.
I would if I were you,just use the nice new truck and trailer for a few years and if you like the lifestyle then trade up to new truck and fifth wheel. That’s just my opinion
Unless money is no object then I say “ you only live once”

[Roper46]

I did not know the tongue weight percentages are different for TTs vs 5ers.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Roper46

I did not know the tongue weight percentages are different for TTs vs 5ers.

Travel trailers range from 10-15% of total weight
Fifth wheels range from 20-25% of total weight.

For "planning purposes" almost everyone will recommend using the trailer's maximum weight (GVW) and estimating a "midrange percentage". For travel trailers, most recommend 12-13% and for fifth wheels, 22%. Then, add the weight of the hitch to the calculated estimate to get the "total tongue weight (TT) or total pin weight (FW).....

[Nankipoo]

So.... My Ram 6.4 gasser has 2930 listed on the yellow sticker. Listed pin weight on my 5'er is 1925. Does that mean I have 1000 pounds to play with. I've read these post several times and still confused.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Nankipoo

So.... My Ram 6.4 gasser has 2930 listed on the yellow sticker. Listed pin weight on my 5'er is 1925. Does that mean I have 1000 pounds to play with. I've read these post several times and still confused.

What that means is you subtract 1925 from 2930 to get 1005 pounds for hitch, and everything else in the truck including the truck itself.

A trip to the scales with everything in it you have Camping will tell you how much that weighs. I doubt it’s 1005 pounds.

[Nankipoo]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

What that means is you subtract 1925 from 2930 to get 1005 pounds for hitch, and everything else in the truck including the truck itself.

A trip to the scales with everything in it you have Camping will tell you how much that weighs. I doubt it’s 1005 pounds.

Thanks. I have been meaning to go weigh it all just haven't yet.

[Northofu1]

The 1925 is the factory pin weight of the UVW, The GVWR of the trailer is 13,000 lbs pushing your pin weight to at least 2,600 lbs.
I would weigh that soon, first with empty trailer, then loaded to go.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Nankipoo

So.... My Ram 6.4 gasser has 2930 listed on the yellow sticker. Listed pin weight on my 5'er is 1925. Does that mean I have 1000 pounds to play with. I've read these post several times and still confused.

NOT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE, but as posted by the two previous posters, that 1925 pounds listed ad the "EMPTY PIN WEIGHT WHEN YOUR FIFTH WHEEL LEFT THE FACTORY" has no current value for you at all.... You need a CURRENT WEIGHT....

Right now, if you're attempting to calculate your vehicle load on a "fantasy weight" advertised in a brochure that was provided as an average weight for all trailers, regardless of optional equipment installed in that series of models, before propane and batteries were installed by the dealership.....

That's like saying, "The average 10 year old weighs 60 pounds, so I'll calculate my adult weight to be 60 pounds plus a little bit"...... Using that procedure, how many of us would have an accurate weight????

As stated, go to the CAT scale (or another scale) and weigh the truck without the trailer, then hitch up and weigh the rig. My guess is that your 1925 pound "advertised fantasy weight" will be significantly higher, likely in the 750-1250 pound higher range.....

[Dallasrules]

[QUOTE=Roper46;427339]Would appreciate thoughts on this.

Have also been researching hitches for the 5er and really like the Andersen Ultimate for the Ram 6 1/2 foot bed.

/QUOTE]

I have this hitch and love it.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Nankipoo

So.... My Ram 6.4 gasser has 2930 listed on the yellow sticker. Listed pin weight on my 5'er is 1925. Does that mean I have 1000 pounds to play with. I've read these post several times and still confused.

If the your trailer is 13k gvw that is a 2600lb. pin minimum. 2930 payload less 2600 leaves 330lbs to play with not 1000; that's people, hitch, tools, puppy, kids, toys, drinks, ice chests etc. Not enough room. Listed pin weights are meaningless and really aren't even a decent guide because they 1) are based on unloaded weight from the factory which disappeared when the first battery and/or LP tank was installed and 2) the percentages used for the dry pin varies all over the place so no way to know what they mean. Use 20-25% of the trailer gvw to approximate a pin weight that will keep you somewhat safe.

[cougar18]

We traded our 2018 Cougar 29BHS trailer in for 2020 Cougar 29RKS 5th Wheel. Bought it and drove it right to our indoor winter storage. Comes out of storage on April 1st. Going to be pulled with my 2018 GMC 2500HD Duramax 6.6L. I decided on the PULLRITE SuperGlide hitch from the great reviews. No need to touch, just hook up and drive. Wish I bought the 5th wheel the first time around..Safe travels and hope you get want this time.