Bought a Fuzion, now unsure

[Vinnie]

Eyeballing the Cougar line (again), and hoping Monday's conversation with the dealer is more productive than contentious. I can be the still-satisfied customer willing to overlook a mutual error, or I can be the litigious angry guy with a lawyer in one pocket and the NHTSA/NTSB in the other, and a loud voice willing to trash talk their business. Their choice.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Had a dually as our daily driver for 15 years. Once you get accustom to it it's no different than any other, but may not fit in your garage.
Also if you look closely the F450 is more truck in a lot of ways than the F350 EXCEPT in payload.

What he said. I've not owned a SRW pickup in years. If you stop and think about it dually is no wider than the mirrors on your SRW!

Now the confusing part is that the F350 Dually will have a higher payload than the F450!

[notanlines]

The 14K F450 limit has been done for ages for license and insurance purposes. I guess in some areas this is quite a big deal.

[chuckster57]

When I was looking and found my F350, the F450 was considered a medium duty truck out here in the left coast. Registration and insurance were even more through the roof.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

The F350 you are looking at is it gas or diesel?
a towing capacity makes me think it is either a 6.2 or 7.3 with 3.73 gears. NO WAY I would want to pull a 17,000# GVWR 5er with a gas engine.

You are not in danger of being over Payload of the TV, just way over its ablity to move the load.

I stand corrected. Totally thoughtlessness on my part. I went and researched and found my error. Thank you for correcting me. I felt like an idiot when I found it.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Here's the stickers on my F-350 King Ranch 4x4, packing the 6.7L diesel. The equipped tires are factory, stamped with an SRW weight rating of 3750lbs each, so I assume they (and the wheels?) match the sticker exactly.

Hope the pics post correctly!

The biggest killer on your F350 is the 11,500# GVWR, since 2013 Ram 3500 SRW has had a 12,300# GVWR for the long bed and about 4,200# payload. In 2021 Ford upgraded their F350 SRW GVWR to 12,400#.

[Vinnie]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

The biggest killer on your F350 is the 11,500# GVWR, since 2013 Ram 3500 SRW has had a 12,300# GVWR for the long bed and about 4,200# payload. In 2021 Ford upgraded their F350 SRW GVWR to 12,400#.

Huh... talk about feeling robbed twice!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Eyeballing the Cougar line (again), and hoping Monday's conversation with the dealer is more productive than contentious. I can be the still-satisfied customer willing to overlook a mutual error, or I can be the litigious angry guy with a lawyer in one pocket and the NHTSA/NTSB in the other, and a loud voice willing to trash talk their business. Their choice.

Vinnie after the conversations you had with the folks of the dealership and the questions you asked them, all of which they failed to answer correctly, I would insist on a meeting with them and whoever runs/owns the dealership. It it's part of a conglomerate make sure you know the hierarchy of the company. Sit down and recount/recite the guidance/advice you were looking for going into this trying to avoid a dangerous, even deadly, occurrence if guided in the wrong direction - you were. Put it on their shoulders, and in their pockets, to give you a satisfactory resolution. I don't think you will get a newer, bigger truck for nothing (sounds like yours was a demo) so be prepared to pay what's reasonable, but that is as it should be. Just be sure and do it and rectify your situation. Good luck.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Vinnie after the conversations you had with the folks of the dealership and the questions you asked them, all of which they failed to answer correctly, I would insist on a meeting with them and whoever runs/owns the dealership. It it's part of a conglomerate make sure you know the hierarchy of the company. Sit down and recount/recite the guidance/advice you were looking for going into this trying to avoid a dangerous, even deadly, occurrence if guided in the wrong direction - you were. Put it on their shoulders, and in their pockets, to give you a satisfactory resolution. I don't think you will get a newer, bigger truck for nothing (sounds like yours was a demo) so be prepared to pay what's reasonable, but that is as it should be. Just be sure and do it and rectify your situation. Good luck.

What he said x2.

[Vinnie]

I'm going the route of trying to get them to reverse the sale, tow the trailer back (as I won't tow it anymore, knowing what I know now), and sell me a much lighter and more appropriate Cougar trailer, which a sister store has in stock nearby.

Talking to an acquaintance at the sister store, there was considerable frustration that the sales guy never even looked at my GVWR/load stickers before ensuring me that I had enough truck, so hopefully that sentiment carries through. Fingers crossed, and only about 30% sick to my stomach, so that's a good sign so far.

[nellie1289]

there is no way you only get 12,100 towing on a dually f350!

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by nellie1289

there is no way you only get 12,100 towing on a dually f350!

Yeah, that was my bad. I was looking at the wrong spec sheet.

[wiredgeorge]

Vinnie, When you go in to the dealer and drop the lawyer and NTSB card, let us know what their reaction is. I am pretty sure than any salesman selling anything on wheels will not be the source of definitive or specs and very likely can't be held to the misinformation they come up with otherwise the jails would be full of salesmen. Has anyone sued Keystone for calling a line of fifth wheels "Half Ton Towable" which is now a label I see all the time with other camper lines being sold. Does this label mean any 1/2 ton or some super specially equipped model no one has ever actually purchased. Please do follow up and I would try and be sweet when pleading your case at the dealer as you likely put your signature on paper already... caveat emptor!

[nellie1289]

i will say i was happy the dealer I just bought my Montana from did a detail review of my vehicle before I ever picked it up. Then we reviewed it again and i signed a form with the relevant data before i signed on the trailer. This is how it should be done IMHO.

We then went and reviewed hitch height, where i came down to on my springs with it actually on the hitch(plenty of room to bump stops) etc before I signed. This made me feel good.

[Vinnie]

The first conservation went... meh. The line the manager keeps spouting is "we're only responsible to be within the towing capacity, which for your truck, is 21,000lbs."

Doesn't that capacity number include the weight of the truck? So if the truck is 7000+ then the additional hauling capacity would be closer to 14,000lbs, correct?

[chuckster57]

Towing capacity is the amount of trailer you can drag. I’m sorry it didn’t go the way you wanted without any real pushing. I think it’s time to escalate the conversation to the general mgr or even the owner.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Vinnie

The first conservation went... meh. The line the manager keeps spouting is "we're only responsible to be within the towing capacity, which for your truck, is 21,000lbs."

Doesn't that capacity number include the weight of the truck? So if the truck is 7000+ then the additional hauling capacity would be closer to 14,000lbs, correct?

Well, what they are telling you is they go by the "max tow" rating of a truck - completely ridiculous BUT gives them the leeway to sell you anything for a tiny truck - not cool and patently wrong.

My thinking is...how do they know that max tow number? That number encompasses many, many models of truck and is not anywhere accurate when taking into account the other, mandated, weight limitations. If they KNOW that max tow weight, from a brochure, but have no idea what YOUR truck can handle because they don't know the difference....I'd fight that game all day long. Forget the manager - they, by their internal "guidelines", just sent you out to be killed due to their lack of diligence. If all they know is the "max tow" capacity of a truck, which is meaningless because the stickers actually tell you real truck, not brochure numbers, they should not be selling an RV.

I would tell them to show me their documentation that YOUR truck, with YOUR, payload can then safely tow their max tow figure (generic of the lightest, cheapest truck made)....they can't. Forget the finish hammer; carry a sledge the next go round.

Edit: it's been a stress day but I would do what I recommended.

[Vinnie]

This is straight from Ford's "towing for dummies" brochure. I didn't have the knowledge to make sense of these numbers till I met you fine folks, which is why I tried clarifying so many times at the dealership. The most interesting bit is that my truck (irrespective of options) is rated to haul 21,900lbs, but if you look at the footnote, it says that's the gooseneck rating, and a fifth wheel hitch is limited to a max of 18,000lbs. Does that mean the four holes in my truck bed are only rated to that weight, regardless of the 5,000/20,000lb rating of the aftermarket hitch bolted into it?

And of course, right there on the same page, in bright red letters, it clarifies the load thing. I mean, if you're selling RVs and marrying them up to other folks' trucks, shouldn't this simple bit of information be mandatory pre-trip review, so the customer doesn't blow a tire, roll the rig, lose his wife, and sue the company into obsolescence?

Oh and I answered my own question- the GCWR is 30k, so I got no real game there.

[chuckster57]

Any dealership worth a dime would try to work something out instead being obstinate and say “we are only responsible” for tow rating. I would remind them that “hoodwinking” an unsuspecting customer is tatamount to fraud. Like Danny said, forget the tack hammer, bring out the big sledge.

[Javi]

Just my opinion.. you will not win unless you have more money than the ownership of the dealer.

If you really do like the trailer then bite the bullet and go buy a dually and enjoy the trailer.

In the greater scheme of things you will come out ahead of many of us,

I bought a truck because I bought a trailer too big for the truck I owned.

I then bought a trailer that I settled for because the truck I had just purchased was too light for the trailer I really wanted.

Finally, I gave up and bought a dually and bought the trailer I wanted all along.

Save yourself a hundred thousand dollars and go right to the dually.