Winterizing help - pump won't turn off but not sucking up antifreeze

[jrhoads23]

Winterizing my Outback 23RS for the winter. Last year it was a breeze...
* Empty water heater and turn on bypass
* Open two valves on underside of RV at the low spots. Let them drain and then close them
* Open all faucets
* Blow water out of the lines with compressed air
* Close all faucets
* Hook up tube to pump and put in pink antifreeze
* Turn pump on, when pump stops go open each faucet one at a time until the pink stuff comes out
* In total I used around 1.5 gallons

This year I did the same process. When blowing the water out I did notice that I seemed to hear some gurgling from the lines (couldn't remember if that happened last year or not). So I hook up the tube to my pump and put it in the antifreeze and it only sucks up less than a 1/4 of a gallon and stops. The pump is still running, but it isnt sucking anything up anymore. I then went and opened up each faucet. At that point, it would start sucking it up again. There was some clear water that came out of each before the pink stuff, but not a ton. In all I went through 3 gallons of antifreeze. I let each faucet run for a little bit fearing there was still some water in the lines. My pump never once turned off.

Any thoughts on why my pump didnt turn off? What would cause a pump to still run, but not suck? But then suck again once a faucet was opened. When we have had to use the pump camping it always just runs on demand and then turns off. Is my process wrong or did I miss something?

We don't usually go where there isnt city hookup but we occassionally do, and I would hate to go and have the pump running the entire time.

Thoughts?

[jrhoads23]

On thing I just thought of... My water heater plug is still removed... would that matter? Could it be sucking air in from there? Although like I mentioned I did turn the value to bypass the water heater. Plus I dont think I had the plug in last year when I winterized it (but not 100% positive)

[flybouy]

How much air pressure did you use when you "blew out the lines"?

[jrhoads23]

Low pressure. I know that high pressure can damage the lines so I tried to keep it low. Didnt have a guage but I tried to keep it lower than what water pressure from a city line would be

What would be a way to tell if I used too much and blew a line? I dont see any leaks anywhere. Plus, if that was the case wouldnt the pump continue to suck up the antifreeze and then it would just leak somewhere? It wasnt sucking up antifreeze at all when all the faucets were closed

[flybouy]

Not if the air pressure ruptured the diaphragm on the pump or opened up a connection on the intake side of the pump causing it lose prime and suck air.

[jrhoads23]

Ah gotcha. How could I test that? It seems to suck just fine when one of the faucets is open

[dutchmensport]

My last 3 travel trailers, including my 3rd an Outback 298RE, pretty much functioned the same way. I installed an anti-freeze line hose at the water pump with a valve that could switch between sucking from the fresh water tank or the anti freeze gallon jug. In all 3 of my previous campers, I had to do a combination of things.

First, I never drained or blew anything.

Second, bypassed the water heater and drained it next.

Third, I'd flipped my valve from sucking the fresh water tank to sucking the antifreeze.

Fourth, I turn on the water pump and it would suck the antifreeze until the pump reached pressure.

Fifth, I'd go around to each faucet and do the cold side, then the hot side, starting with the faucet closest to the water pump.

Sixth, I'd break the seal on the low point plugs and let them seep until I saw pink, then closed them off again. I never removed the caps completely, just let them leak.

Seventh, go back to the first faucet again and let it run for a couple more seconds.

Eighth ...... THEN I would blow the lines to clear out the antifreeze.

Now, sometimes the water pump would start running and there would be no suction. I found out air was the problem. Mostly, the hose in the bottom of the jug moved and broke the seal.

Sometimes, if the pink gallon jug was positioned too high (higher than the water pump, it would not suck. (On my current fifth wheel, if the jug is lower than the pump, it won't suck yet the pump is still running.)

I did try blowing the lines first one year and it was a nightmare trying to get the pump to start sucking the pink. I had to do a combination of turning the pump on first, then a faucet. And other times, turning on the faucet first and then the pump until all the lines were filled with fluid again.

In the future, pump the pink first. The pink will displace the water. once the water at the faucet turns pink, you have no more water in that line. After it's all displaced with pink stuff, then blow. Come spring, hook the water hose up to the city water connection and let the city water source flow the pink-stuff out.

[jrhoads23]

dutchmensport - thanks so much for your writeup. I like the idea of doing the antifreeze and then blowing it out at the end.

So here is what I noticed. 2 of my 4 faucets I have access to the plumbing underneath. Looking at the tubing, the hot water lines are filled with pink. The cold water lines are empty. When I open a faucet it spits some air and then it comes out. But when I turn it off the level in the line drops again. When I look at my two low point drain tubes underneath, one is filled with pink, and one is empty (empty one I am assuming is cold water).
So the hot water lines hold the antifreeze all the way to the faucet, the cold water lines do not. This leads me to believe I might have a very small hole or leak somewhere? It would have to be big enough to not allow enough pressure to build and shut off the pump, but small enough that it doesnt leak a lot (I dont see anything) or allow the pump to draw in any more antifreeze (until a faucet is opened).
Does that sound right?

So at this point I am not sure what to do. Do I just leave it (I did run 3 gallons through it so it should hopefully be good) and mess with the pump in spring?

Or do I put 7 or so gallons of water in my fresh water holding tank and run it dry with the pump (just open up my fresh water dump valve)? This will allow me to see if my pump is operating correctly and shutting off when the pressure builds. This means I would need to buy some more antifreeze to winterize the lines again once this is done.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jrhoads23

dutchmensport - thanks so much for your writeup. I like the idea of doing the antifreeze and then blowing it out at the end.

So here is what I noticed. 2 of my 4 faucets I have access to the plumbing underneath. Looking at the tubing, the hot water lines are filled with pink. The cold water lines are empty. When I open a faucet it spits some air and then it comes out. But when I turn it off the level in the line drops again. When I look at my two low point drain tubes underneath, one is filled with pink, and one is empty (empty one I am assuming is cold water).
So the hot water lines hold the antifreeze all the way to the faucet, the cold water lines do not. This leads me to believe I might have a very small hole or leak somewhere? It would have to be big enough to not allow enough pressure to build and shut off the pump, but small enough that it doesnt leak a lot (I dont see anything) or allow the pump to draw in any more antifreeze (until a faucet is opened).
Does that sound right?

So at this point I am not sure what to do. Do I just leave it (I did run 3 gallons through it so it should hopefully be good) and mess with the pump in spring?

Or do I put 7 or so gallons of water in my fresh water holding tank and run it dry with the pump (just open up my fresh water dump valve)? This will allow me to see if my pump is operating correctly and shutting off when the pressure builds. This means I would need to buy some more antifreeze to winterize the lines again once this is done.

The first post sort of made sense to me. The pump could remain running without siphoning antifreeze if the faucets were closed if pressure switch was defective. The sound should change as the pump would be under a heavy load.

Your statement about the water heater being open is irrelevant as you stated the bypass valve is in the bypass position so it's out of the loop. I'm confused about the above post. The hot and cold water lines are connected before the water heater. When winterizing you should see pure antifreeze coming out of every faucet (same color as in the jug). Don't forget any outdoor kitchen or shower fixtures as well.

As for the disappearing antifreeze from the cold water line I don't know how that can happen without a leak if the faucets were open for a sufficient time to bleed all the air from the line.

[jrhoads23]

I DO see antifreeze coming out of every faucet. It's just when I turn a hot water faucet off, the line remain full of antifreeze. When I turn a cold water faucet off, the antifreeze level in the line drops

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jrhoads23

I DO see antifreeze coming out of every faucet. It's just when I turn a hot water faucet off, the line remain full of antifreeze. When I turn a cold water faucet off, the antifreeze level in the line drops

Understand that. Point is, if you had all the air bleed out of the cold water line then that antifreeze had to go somewhere. That means it's leaking somewhere.

[jrhoads23]

Makes sense. I will dig around and see what I find. It is odd because if there is a leak somewhere, you would have thought we would have discovered it at some point this summer using it.
And it is also odd that the low point drain for the cold water line is empty... you would have thought some of it would have made it down into that trap.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by jrhoads23

Makes sense. I will dig around and see what I find. It is odd because if there is a leak somewhere, you would have thought we would have discovered it at some point this summer using it.
And it is also odd that the low point drain for the cold water line is empty... you would have thought some of it would have made it down into that trap.

Drain the freshwater tank and see what comes out..

[jrhoads23]

Originally Posted by Javi

Drain the freshwater tank and see what comes out..

Will do. Hopefully nothing since we didnt use it at all this year and I drained it last fall when I winterized it. But I will certainly make sure it is empty