Water Leak

[KHBama]

Hey Guys, have a 2017 Laredo bought brand new in December 2017. Had a yearly inspection done last year and had some spots caulked on roof. I washed the roof this morning and noticed a soft spot up near the front over the master bedroom. I noticed some water stains on the ceiling in the bathroom, hallway and master bedroom. 3rd RV and this is the 1st time I’ve had this issue. 16 months and roof problems? No damage that I’m aware could have happened. Check the roof roughly every 3 months for seal issues and caulk if needed. Think I will get any help from Keystone?

[Wingerdinger]

What do you mean by 'caulk'? There are very specific types and brands of sealant to use on an RV roof. An EPDM or TPO roof requires only Dicor sealant to maintain the warranty.
Other type sealants will damage the roof membrane.
You have leaks you aren't finding.
The front cap seam seems to be a problematic area.
I have noticed others have said that the standard response from Keystone is 'roof maintenance is the owner's responsibility'.

[KHBama]

I use Dicor sealant, that’s what I meant by caulk. I used eternabond on front cap because I suspected there was maybe a leak early on. Not sure what else Keystone would expect me to do in 16 month for routine maintenance

[Wingerdinger]

I have a couple soft spots in my roof, near the front cap. I am certain it's because they thin sheet they use under the rubber is not fastened or short, or even cracked. I put my hand down, not leaning, and it gave way. I am going to fix it from below, shore it up.
Perhaps you have a little of that sort of thing.
It really sounds like you have been pretty thorough. Perhaps a moisture/ condensation issue? Do you use your unit is cold weather? Maybe the insulation in those areas is thin or missing? Just throwing out ideas..

[JRTJH]

You may be overthinking the problem and the cause.....

If I remember correctly, you're using your RV for winter camping. If so, this may just be a "rust problem" with the staples that hold the ceiling luan panels to the roof structure. There is a "row of steel staples" on every roof rafter/joist. After the panels are attached, a "clay caulk" is used to cover the staple holes. Over time, condensation in the trailer from showering and from cold air (again, condensation) in the A/C ducting runs will cause those staples to rust. You'll notice some "orange spots" on the ceiling and usually they won't "wipe away with a damp cloth" which is an indication of two possibilities. First (and most frequent) is described above. Second, and less frequent, is an active roof leak.

My guess (and advice) is to first look at the most common cause and determine if there is a better way to remove condensation when winter camping. I'd also check the roof, but no matter how many pounds of DICOR self leveling sealant you apply "up there" you can't stop the orange spots that are caused by "interior dampness caused by human breathing and showering/cooking" only ventilation will resolve that "looks like a leak to me" condition.....

[KHBama]

Thanks for the replies, good stuff. I’ve attached a pic of one of the spots. All of the possible “stains” are on the wood trim pieces on the ceiling. Yes we do camp during the winter also. We are in for a soaker today, so hoping there are no more stains when I check tomorrow

[KHBama]

Just checked and no further leaks or stains after the rain came through today. I do notice that the stains are a orangey Rust like color and they all are at the wood trim pieces running across the ceiling. Does this sound more like the nail rust mentioned above by JRTJH? Wonder why they do not show up on the other trim pieces

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by KHBama

Just checked and no further leaks or stains after the rain came through today. I do notice that the stains are a orangey Rust like color and they all are at the wood trim pieces running across the ceiling. Does this sound more like the nail rust mentioned above by JRTJH? Wonder why they do not show up on the other trim pieces

Give it time, in your case, it sounds like the "white color putty" was put on a tad thicker than the "brown color putty" and hasn't yet "bled through". No bets on how long it'll take.....

[CrazyCain]

[QUOTE=JRTJH;328995]You may be overthinking the problem and the cause.....

If I remember correctly, you're using your RV for winter camping. If so, this may just be a "rust problem" with the staples that hold the ceiling luan panels to the roof structure. There is a "row of steel staples" on every roof rafter/joist. After the panels are attached, a "clay caulk" is used to cover the staple holes. Over time, condensation in the trailer from showering and from cold air (again, condensation) in the A/C ducting runs will cause those staples to rust. You'll notice some "orange spots" on the ceiling and usually they won't "wipe away with a damp cloth" which is an indication of two possibilities. First (and most frequent) is described above. Second, and less frequent, is an active roof leak.

My guess (and advice) is to first look at the most common cause and determine if there is a better way to remove condensation when winter camping. I'd also check the roof, but no matter how many pounds of DICOR self leveling sealant you apply "up there" you can't stop the orange spots that are caused by "interior dampness caused by human breathing and showering/cooking" only ventilation will resolve that "looks like a leak to me" condition.....[/QUOTE

That is exactly what goes on in my Trailer, and we "winter" camp all winter long. I thought leak when i first discovered the rusty looking spots, but determined it was the rusty staple syndrome. Don't have them to much anymore becasue we are fanatics about condesation control. I use a Sharpie Meanstreak White permanent marking stick to cover the rust spots when they show up. Works great and they stay covered. JMO

[Wes Tausend]

...

The history of condensation...

I concur with the condensation suggestions. Under many conditions, condensation is more common than water leaks. I owned a plaster/drywall construction business for about 25 years and condensation became a major home issue for me after the 1973-74 OPEC oil embargo.

As 55mph highway speed enforcement went into effect, so did several governmental mandates to reduce wasteful home heating. The primary methods were better insulation and better sealing doors and windows. The better sealing then caused condensation to build up in homes because cold, dry winter air no longer accidently "ventilated" the homes.

The condensation built up on new windows, ran down the glass and ruined the wood frames. Window companies, now liable for warranty, quickly determined that a family of four causes about 4 gallons of water a day to be given off in the household by habitation. That included cooking, showering, washing clothes, and of course breathing and perspiration. Some former tent campers may recall the sweating canvas walls on cool nights.

This all caused me warranty headaches because water vapor not only is attracted to cool windows, but all cool outside walls and ceilings. Nobody sees it run down the wall because it usually soaks in. Think canvas walls. It's usually worse wherever metal fasteners are used because they transfer heat away sooner and therefore have a colder surface that attracts even more moisture. Rust is not unusual.

Moisture inside the wall soaks into insulation and wooden framing, and especially into cold, exterior wood paneling. Such wood paneling is used on many campers, with decorative outside polyester resin coatings (Filon, often semi-correctly called fiber-glass). This can cause ugly, permanent warping. For that reason many newer campers use strong, lightweight Adzel siding, a plastic composite that displays little or no effect from water. Use with aluminum studs helps further. Roofing, however, is still plywood, generally with wood trusses. Usually all warm-side interior walls are still wood backed vinyl.

To keep vapor from soaking into stick-home walls and ceilings, a vapor barrier of 4mil polyethylene was applied just under the warm, interior wallboard where the dry vapor has not yet condensed (Up north, the interior vapor barrier has been up-graded to 6 mil). This is important in northern climes to block water vapor before temperature drops to the official dew point and turns wet. Down south, the barrier is applied just under the outside siding (the warm side) to block warm outside humidity from condensing on the inner cavity side of walls in cool, air-conditioned homes.

Even after corrective efforts, I still had warranty trouble from accidental barrier leaks and ceilings, with ceilings the most difficult to repair. Gaseous water vapor is lighter than air and concentrates next to the ceiling. That gaseous weight difference is also why clouds are so high. Invisible vapor rises off damp land and bodies of water and, as it cools, condenses to tiny water droplets we call clouds and fog. It still doesn't fall until the light-weight droplets further coagulate (from more cold) into bigger drops we call rain.

Anyway, I tried to convince the local city engineer to mandate ceiling vapor barriers, but to no avail. He said the vapor had to go someplace and he was right. I had occasional ceilings sag and fall in apartment housing where the landlord was slow to react to tenant complaints, mostly at the end of very cold winters when the attic "glacier" melted. Nowadays most (but not all) builders understand the need for efficient whole-house ventilation where some heat is retained, but air is exchanged for dry outside winter air.

I own a small dehumidifier specifically for camping, but only used it once in cool, rainy fall weather. Usually cracking open the ceiling vents gets rid of enough vapor to do the trick and 'save the farm'. Perhaps a common problem is that high outside humidity due to rain and cool weather discourages folks from cracking their ceiling vents from fear of rain blowing in and in order to save heat. But that is the very weather that the worst vapor damage is done. Most of the humidity accumulates near the ceiling and cool, quiet surfaces like the ceiling corners, are often below the dew point.

Whenever I encounter rust and rot in camper walls and ceilings, I suspect cavity condensation first. Our campers are still not very well protected against it and their compactness makes interior moisture dissipation worse per square foot.

Wes

[KHBama]

Thanks for all the info guys. It was condensation and either rust from the staples or the wood trim stain. Used a magic eraser and it came right off