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10-26-2020, 06:22 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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and they aren't the 'small' batteries by any means. they are the same size as those in my half ton truck
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10-26-2020, 06:24 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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Note im not home so I can't confirm batteries, i had the pleasure of watching this happen via the in-command app
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10-26-2020, 06:32 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 551
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The converter is protected several different ways from overcurrent so I fail to see why it would smoke if there's a large demand on it. Typically they are current limited and will shutdown to protect themselves. There are also reverse polarity fuses which are in the output of the converter that will also protect it from overcurrent.
Your batteries should never see 10 volts. If that's what it really is then you're killing the batteries. It will take literally hours and hours and hours of running the generator to get the batteries back to a full charge if they are low like that. My converter takes 24-48 hours to fully top of the battery and get it back to 100%. Running it for a few hours will only get you a little bit of charge. You should be trying to keep the voltage above around 12.2 volts no load to make the batteries last.
__________________
2018 Keystone Cougar 22RBS
2020 Ford F-350 XLT SC SRW 6.7l Powerstroke.
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10-26-2020, 06:40 AM
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#24
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatoneguy
The batteries go from 12v to 10v extremely fast, 2 brand new interstate deep cycle. tbe come back to 12.8v pretty fast once on shore/generator power after a charge and only seems to have issues if also running the furnace.
note it will run the furnace just fine as low as 9.8v but as soon as i flip the generator on, the convertor hates it . Im guessing because the furnace is the largest system on 12v but if the furnace is on and working and batteries are low, turning off the furnace to recharge batteries seems like a design flaw.
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Here is a "battery charge state chart reflecting the "charge status" based on battery output voltage. Your statement above, that the furnace is just fine at 9.8 VDC, indicates that your two Interstate deep cycle batteries are being depleted "well below their 0% charge level. I'd suspect that the issues you're having are directly related to how far you are depleting the batteries before you start the recharge cycle. You've likely not only "fried your converter" but you've also very likely damaged your new batteries, causing them to prematurely fail. I'd also suspect that if you stop discharging your batteries as deeply as you are currently doing, all your problems will resolve.
Realize that if you are discharging this deeply on a regular basis, you also need to address the size/capacity of your battery bank and also the frequency of your recharging cycles...
In the chart, you can see that 12.06 VDC is the "50% charge level"... NEVER should your voltmeter on the trailer 12 Volt system read lower than 12.06 VDC and ideally, it should not fall below the 70% level (assuming your batteries are "hybrid deep cycle design" and have a CCA rating listed on them). The DC system voltage at 70% charge status for your batteries is 12.32 VDC.
Your statement that the batteries operate the furnace at 9.8VDC indicates that you are operating your batteries "far beyond their intended discharge level" and I'd suspect that you've destroyed them and your converter/charger by discharging them that low.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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10-26-2020, 06:53 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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I have to disagree with below 0% that or my in-command monitor is very inaccurate... There would be no way for me to power anything if i was at 0% charge, so I'll say ive never run the multimeter to batteries directly but i promise the batteries aren't destroyed.
example i was reading 10.8-11 v on battery this last time , started generator, voltage reading 13.7, 5 minutes later voltage was 9.9 and falling fast with obvious power drain, assuming the converter pulling lots of power that it wasn't prior to "due to the short?" So my problem should have nothing to do with the batteries low voltage, as THEY CHARGE FINE under normal circumstances without the furnace on. However the batteries themselves could be an issue in conjunction with the converter.
If the batteries were "destroyed" bu running them low, it would happen the first day. Non deep cycle batteries i agreee, you ruin them, deep cycles are meant to be depleted. Yes you lessen their life span the more you discharge them but they aren't ruined.
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10-26-2020, 07:05 AM
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#26
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatoneguy
I have to disagree with below 0% that or my in-command monitor is very inaccurate... There would be no way for me to power anything if i was at 0% charge, so I'll say ive never run the multimeter to batteries directly but i promise the batteries aren't destroyed.
example i was reading 10.8-11 v on battery this last time , started generator, voltage reading 13.7, 5 minutes later voltage was 9.9 and falling fast with obvious power drain, assuming the converter pulling lots of power that it wasn't prior to "due to the short?" So my problem should have nothing to do with the batteries low voltage, as THEY CHARGE FINE under normal circumstances without the furnace on. However the batteries themselves could be an issue in conjunction with the converter.
If the batteries were "destroyed" bu running them low, it would happen the first day. Non deep cycle batteries i agreee, you ruin them, deep cycles are meant to be depleted. Yes you lessen their life span the more you discharge them but they aren't ruined.
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Call the Interstate Battery Company Customer Service Department and discuss this with the "experts"... 866.884.4635 https://www.interstatebatteries.com/support
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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10-26-2020, 07:07 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
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i had this very discussion with Optima, id not imagine that it would change to Interstate.
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10-26-2020, 07:28 AM
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#28
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
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If you don't need any help from the Interstate battery guys about their batteries, maybe you can go to the Progressive Dynamics site and read the section about how discharging batteries deposits sulfate on the lead plates and how "repeated discharging" crystalizes that lead sulfate making the battery incapable of accepting any more recharges, in other words, destroying the battery. It starts with the first time that deep of a discharge occurs and it may take 5 or it may take 50 or it may take 500 cycles before the battery is destroyed. The facts are that you've very probably destroyed your new batteries and THEY, in their sulfated state, are destroying your converters.
Anyway, go here: https://www.progressivedyn.com/service/battery-basics/ and read, about 1/3 of the way down the page, the section titled, "Lead Acid Battery Discharge Cycle"...
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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10-26-2020, 07:55 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
If you don't need any help from the Interstate battery guys about their batteries, maybe you can go to the Progressive Dynamics site and read the section about how discharging batteries deposits sulfate on the lead plates and how "repeated discharging" crystalizes that lead sulfate making the battery incapable of accepting any more recharges, in other words, destroying the battery. It starts with the first time that deep of a discharge occurs and it may take 5 or it may take 50 or it may take 500 cycles before the battery is destroyed. The facts are that you've very probably destroyed your new batteries and THEY, in their sulfated state, are destroying your converters.
Anyway, go here: https://www.progressivedyn.com/service/battery-basics/ and read, about 1/3 of the way down the page, the section titled, "Lead Acid Battery Discharge Cycle"...
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im familiar with how that works, and have a great deal more knowledge than this thread would imply. But this is perhaps the 3rd time ive seen excessive low voltage, the 1st was day one, and on day 2 i added another battery, the 2nd was the first convertor frying the 3rd being this converter.... the converter itself seems to be causing me battery issues... After consulting with my parts and service rep this morning, I have upgraded the converter itself, and to rule out surges, I added this surge protector that while not the most expensive, im hoping with the upgraded converter its adequate.
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10-26-2020, 08:16 AM
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#30
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
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Let us know if your converter replacement and the surge protector resolve your issue. Good luck !!!!!
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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10-26-2020, 08:28 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Hopefully you got the EMS & not just the surge protector! Otherwise with your power issues you won't see much benefit from just a surge protector.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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10-26-2020, 09:06 AM
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#32
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,711
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At a $140 it's not an EMS. From reading his replies he apparently has more knowledge than anyone that's replied so I'll just wish him well.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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10-26-2020, 10:01 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy
At a $140 it's not an EMS. From reading his replies he apparently has more knowledge than anyone that's replied so I'll just wish him well.
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I asked what's frying my converter not for a lecture on how i should treat my batteries.... Battery police too here it seems. Good information was shared wben it was stated that the batteries low voltage combined with the draw of furnace could cause a surge to try to charge the batteries when the generator was started, the new converter has 3 separate charge modes, combined with the surge protector should rule out most things other than perhaps a short in the furnace somewhere.
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10-26-2020, 10:02 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans
Hopefully you got the EMS & not just the surge protector! Otherwise with your power issues you won't see much benefit from just a surge protector.
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it certainly can't be worse than nothing.
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10-26-2020, 10:43 AM
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#35
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,598
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After reading through this thread I can equivocally say this; 2 Interstate deep cycle "hybrid" batteries are not, and were never, meant to be "boondocking". I use 2 of them, exclusively use full hookups and sometimes think I'll go to 6 volts "because. If they are the hybrid batteries the discharging described has killed them.
My suggestion would be a minimum of 2 Trojan 6volt batteries, new WFCO WF-9875 converter and new EMS - either a Progressive or Surge Guard by Southwire. Put those in, try them out and get back to us; not sure we are doing you any good here.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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10-26-2020, 10:56 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
After reading through this thread I can equivocally say this; 2 Interstate deep cycle "hybrid" batteries are not, and were never, meant to be "boondocking". I use 2 of them, exclusively use full hookups and sometimes think I'll go to 6 volts "because. If the are the hybrid batteries the discharging described has killed them.
My suggestion would be a minimum of 2 Trojan 6volt batteries, new WFCO WF-9875 converter and new EMS - either a Progressive or Surge Guard by Southwire. Put those in, try them out and get back to us; not sure we are doing you any good here.
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why not 2x 12v batteries in parallel vs 2x 6v in series?
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10-26-2020, 11:17 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatoneguy
why not 2x 12v batteries in parallel vs 2x 6v in series?
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Generally speaking, the life span is longer because 6-volt batteries have thicker plates and more space per cell, which can result in a deeper discharge than a 12-volt deep cycle. ...
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
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10-26-2020, 11:19 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi
Generally speaking, the life span is longer because 6-volt batteries have thicker plates and more space per cell, which can result in a deeper discharge than a 12-volt deep cycle. ...
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that's something i wasn't aware of thank you
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10-26-2020, 11:39 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,665
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The two 6 volt give you more amp hours as well. Typically around 220. Wiring them in series doubles the voltage, but amp hours remains. Group 27 batteries typically are around 95 amp hours. Wiring parallel doubles that to 190 (will vary slightly depending on brand). So you can gain around 30 Ah by going 6 volt. Personally, I don’t bother with that because of the cost vs reward when I have a generator as well.
__________________
Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
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10-26-2020, 05:16 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Amarillo
Posts: 134
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eventually i plan on running as close to 1k watts of solar that i can and only using generator on extremely rare occasions, but im just trying to figure out this ol girls quirks first lol
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