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Old 08-28-2011, 12:30 PM   #21
ktmracer
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my 04.5 duramax just turned 100K miles. IMHO maintenance costs are pretty much a wash between a gasser and diesel, especially if you do your own routine maintenance. Diesel takes more oil but goes longer between changes, no plugs etc. but does need fuel filter changed more often. And when you look at overall costs of a truck; fuel, insurance, depreciation, tires etc. diesel probably comes out ahead.

If you want a diesel, go for it. I wouldn't go back to a gasser for towing, but I will admit that with fuel prices and the option cost of a diesel, the payback on fuel costs take a LONG time!
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:26 PM   #22
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One solution to high cost/DEF/emissions stuff is to not buy new. There are a lot of good used mid-2000 model year vehicles out there at a fraction of the cost of new and without the operating headaches caused by the new emissions regulations.
The only problem being some of the panic created from the new emissions systems. They have raised the prices of older trucks to ridiculous levels.
Hard to justify buying a 4 year old truck (or older) when for nearly the same price, you can buy a brand new one with a warranty.

The '07 and up trucks are pretty good for the most part, as long as you are using them like a diesel should be used. They tend to be problematic when you start using them every day, idling in traffic, short trips etc.

But there are ways to increase the fuel mileage and reliability out there that have already been mentioned.

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Old 08-28-2011, 03:00 PM   #23
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The only problem being some of the panic created from the new emissions systems. They have raised the prices of older trucks to ridiculous levels.
Hard to justify buying a 4 year old truck (or older) when for nearly the same price, you can buy a brand new one with a warranty.
I have a 2011 Duramax 2500. It does indeed use DEF. The cost of it's use has been so small it is not worth mentioning. My truck now has just over 15000 Km's on it ( bought new March 2011 ) and I have filled up my DEF tank twice.

I love my new duramax and can't say enough good things about it. Power is great and with stabilitrac it handles my Alpine just fine. Add in exhaust brake and built in brake controller and life is good. I also like the feature of how it diagnosis the trailer your hooking onto.( once you plug in light cord )

Just an FYI, my average fuel consumption right off the dash is 17.5L/100km's. That translates to 13.44 MPG US.

I am however always hooked to a trailer of some kind, be it my Alpine, or my flat deck or my cargo trailer. My truck is always working........

I would buy the diesel truck!!

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Old 08-28-2011, 05:25 PM   #24
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We bought our 03' Ford 7.3L diesel in mid 2006. It had 86,000 miles on it and now has 142,000 miles on it.

No problems so far and we are hoping to get at least another 150,000 out of it before we gotta get rid of it and even then, maybe not!

It pulls great!

Having said that my DH now drives 60 miles one way to work every day, so we are looking for a Ford Ranger or something similar that gets better mileage than the diesel does.........

Jo
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Old 08-28-2011, 05:36 PM   #25
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Dodge

Well I have the 2008 Dodge Ram 2500 with the 6.7L Diesel engine and the 68RFE six speed auto transmission. Yhis is the best truck I have ever owned. I pull a 2011 Montana 3580RL and it pulls like a dream. At times I forget it is behind me. We just purchased the fith wheel in Indiana and drove the unit back to California where we live. You will never go wrong with the diesel. They are more exspensive up front but if you are a person who keeps his vehicle a long time then you will see your return as it will run for a very long time.
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:55 PM   #26
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Well I sold my 2500 gas GM and bought a 2011 350 Ford Diesel. We headed west and are in the Rockies right now. That diesel is worth every penny. Pulling 327 5th and I set the cruise at 113 km across the prairies and up to the Park gate past Canmore. Speed limit in National Park is 90Km. I was very impressed with the handling, ability to maintain the same speed on the hills etc. It was a pleasure to drive
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:39 AM   #27
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Truth is the diesels are more costly to operate and maintain but they have twice the longevity of a gas motor. I've owned mine for 4.5 years now and would never go back to a gas motor for a tow vehicle.

The DEF is only required on the Ford and GM diesel motors. The Cumings diesel does not require the diesel exhaust fluid because it was designed in 2006 with the 2010 emissions in mind . Which is kinda weird with Ford. Brand new motor, first Ford build diesel since the 7.3L, and it has to use DEF.
Very true that the Cummins does not use DEF in its non-commercial trucks. However, it does use Rare Earth elements in the exhaust system to knock out the NOx. Very similar to how a car's exhaust system works except with diesel. Right now, all of the Rare Earth elements are mined and imported from Mainland China. One price difference will occur when and if you have to replace the "reactor". Rare Earth are a little pricey right now.

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Old 08-29-2011, 10:00 AM   #28
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Like others have said, oil changes are a little more costly (three gal. of oil) but, the difference is night and day when towing. I've got the 07 5.9 Dodge 4x4 w/ a 6 spd and 35" muds. I get 22 hwy and 19 around town. Towing my Fuzion 302, I'm around 12.

There's nothing like giving it a little pedal and hearing the turbo spool up and off you go.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:17 PM   #29
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Unless you tow a lot and plan on long term ownership then rethink the diesel. Fuel and maintenance are more than they used to be......

You will be replacing injectors on your common rail diesels in the 150k-250k mile range. When this time comes, keep some of these things in mind. The gas engine you have if towed a lot of these miles will need replacing. The cost to do injectors on the Ford or GM will be including labour very close to double the cost of a dodge with cummins.

As owner of a class 8 truck mobile repair business( we have 4 drw,4x4 QC trucks on the road) They are all dodges with the highest mileage at almost 500k miles.

IN my books the best truck for mileage and from the long run point of view is a 2003-2007 5.9 Dodge.

YMMV

My personal truck is a 04 drw dodge with 200K on the clock and it literally runs as new (6spd. manual)
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:37 PM   #30
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IN my books the best truck for mileage and from the long run point of view is a 2003-2007 5.9 Dodge.
I for one could not disagree more. I personally owned a 2007 Dodge 4X4 with a 5.9 for 1 year. Mileage was brutal. My personal cost of operation for fuel doubled in one year. Doubled from the previous year in which I was driving a GM Sierra 4X4 with a 5.3.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by CarKath View Post
I for one could not disagree more. I personally owned a 2007 Dodge 4X4 with a 5.9 for 1 year. Mileage was brutal. My personal cost of operation for fuel doubled in one year. Doubled from the previous year in which I was driving a GM Sierra 4X4 with a 5.3.
If your 5.9 Cummins got worse mileage (double the cost so half the mileage?) than a gas engine then something had to be wrong.
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:11 PM   #32
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I will check my numbers as I use quickbooks for business and it shows it clearly. I'll post that info shortly. It was cost for fuel and fuel alone I was refering to.


Edit: exact numbers. 2009 - $3413.74 2010 - $6381.45

Those numbers speak to themselves in my world.

My bad, my Dodge had a 5.7 not a 5.9
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:56 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antiqfreq View Post
We bought our 03' Ford 7.3L diesel in mid 2006. It had 86,000 miles on it and now has 142,000 miles on it.

No problems so far and we are hoping to get at least another 150,000 out of it before we gotta get rid of it and even then, maybe not!

It pulls great!

Having said that my DH now drives 60 miles one way to work every day, so we are looking for a Ford Ranger or something similar that gets better mileage than the diesel does.........

Jo
Be careful about buying a Ranger for "better mileage" My 2005 V6 FX4 got about 17 MPG, My F150 5.4L FX4 gets about 19MPG. Just be sure you're getting a truck that really does get better mileage......
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:43 PM   #34
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Well CarKath, I think you have to take into account that fuel prices have gone way up and that may account for the majority of the difference. Also, your last post had a correction...first you said you had a 5.9, now you say you have a 5.7. The 5.7 is a Hemi gas engine. I have a 6.7L Cummins with some modifications and I get 21.5MPG highway, 19.5 rural/town, and 13.9 towing a 41 ft Raptor. I think its very respectable. I had a Chevy with a 5.3L gas engine and towed a 28ft TT and got 7.8MPG and only 16 highway. Additionally, It was not a strong puller...it labored! Just my opinion...
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Old 08-30-2011, 05:48 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by CarKath View Post
I have a 2011 Duramax 2500. It does indeed use DEF. The cost of it's use has been so small it is not worth mentioning. My truck now has just over 15000 Km's on it ( bought new March 2011 ) and I have filled up my DEF tank twice.

I love my new duramax and can't say enough good things about it. Power is great and with stabilitrac it handles my Alpine just fine. Add in exhaust brake and built in brake controller and life is good. I also like the feature of how it diagnosis the trailer your hooking onto.( once you plug in light cord )

Just an FYI, my average fuel consumption right off the dash is 17.5L/100km's. That translates to 13.44 MPG US.

This is all the same for me. The DEF is a non-factor for me it adds $5 every 1000 miles.
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:35 AM   #36
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They make a ranger with a smaller engine, I think a 4-cylinder and he'll get the manual transmission. Cheap as possible on the truck extras cause this is only a to/from work vehicle.

Jo
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:55 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarKath View Post
I for one could not disagree more. I personally owned a 2007 Dodge 4X4 with a 5.9 for 1 year. Mileage was brutal. My personal cost of operation for fuel doubled in one year. Doubled from the previous year in which I was driving a GM Sierra 4X4 with a 5.3.
I have a 2005 dodge 3500 with the 5.9 ctd 2wheel drive and get 22.6 in town and 24+ hwy. My wife has a chevy truck 4 wheel drive with the 5.3 and only get about 14 mpg city 17 mpg hwy. Do the simple math and you better bet Im sticking with my CUMMINS.
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:42 PM   #38
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Diesel Truck Tests - MPG

The intent of this post is to provide the results of MPG tests of the Big Three diesel trucks - GMC/Chev, Ford and Dodge. It is not intended to prolong the debate or discussion about which truck gets the best mileage but simply to give the testing results and you can draw you own conclusions from them.
When we figure out what our mpg is, different methods may be used. Some might get that information from the overhead computerized engine readout while others my compute their mileage using the "old fashioned" method.
Also, when we indicated what our mileage is, each of us has computed that under many different conditions and with so many other variables entering the equation. Some variables include year and condition of truck, modifications to it, speed driven, weather conditions, terrain, varying load weights --- the list goes on.
The results of these 3 controlled tests have eliminated almost all of the variables which will provide a more accurate and reliable outcome.
The tests (conducted using 2010-2011 models) and their results are as follows:

Test #1 (University of Michigan - 3/4 T diesel trucks)

No load
Chev/GM 19.7 mpg
Ford 18.6 mpg
Dodge 17.2 mpg

Load of 10,000 lb
Chev/GM 13.3 mpg
Ford 14.0 mpg
Dodge 12.4 mpg

Combined
Chev/GM 15.9 mpg
Ford 15.9 mpg
Dodge 14.4 mpg

Source: Pickup Trucks.com 2010 Fuel Economy Tests

Test#2 (1 Ton diesels)
No load
Chev/GM 18.3 mpg
Ford 11.2 mpg
Dodge 13.0 mpg

Load of 9120 lbs
Chev/GMC 10.5 mpg
Ford 7.6 mpg
Dodge 8.7 mpg
Source: Popular Mechanics

Test #3 (3/4 diesel)
No load
Chev/GMC 20.14
Ford 17.6
Dodge 17.5

Load (10,000 lb trailer)
Chev/GMC 13.5 mpg
Ford 13.2
Dodge 12.6

Test #3 (1 T)
Chev/GMC 17.8
Ford 17.0
Dodge 14.8

Load of 10,000 lb)
Chev/GMC 11.0
Ford 12.5
Dodge 11.4

(Source: Diesel Power Magazine)

While I cannot vouch for the scientific validity of these test results, they were conducted under the same test conditions in each of the 3 tests so one could conclude that they are objective and would be fairly accurate.
I am sure that some of your findings may not be anywhere near these figures and you might dispute these results. Fair enough. They are the findings of 3 controlled tests - no more, no less.
I included them - not to spark another debate ( we have had this dance before ) or to start an argument. They are here for you to have a look at.
You are no doubt satisfied with the truck you currently drive and these figures are not going to make you run out and get something else.
Hope you find them "interesting".
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Old 08-30-2011, 05:13 PM   #39
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I have a 6.7L Cummins with some modifications and I get 21.5MPG highway, 19.5 rural/town, and 13.9 towing a 41 ft Raptor. I think its very respectable.
Is your truck a 4wd? You're getting 14 mpg pulling a 41 ft 5th wheel???? Is that hand calculated or off of the OH lie o meter?

Jason
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Old 08-30-2011, 05:35 PM   #40
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if i remember fuel prices doubled from 09 to 2010, so your log books are correct. it had nothing to do with any vehical you were drving. right after i bought my diesel, diesel sky rocketed to 4.50-5 bucks. but like anything it goes up and down. i spend the same in fuel that i did with my gas truck. cost a little more, but goes a little futher. i wouldn't concider fuel pricing in my desicion for a towing vehical. buy the truck for the performance and the ability. if you spend a little more on fuel and maintnace, its worth it. i basically use my truck for making money and pullin trailers. we use the wifes SUV for most everything else(ok so there isn't much else, but you get the idea).
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