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Old 04-13-2015, 04:57 PM   #1
Micah.TX
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What does "hitch" specs really mean?

Been a newbie for a while and have read everything I can get my hands on. One area I can't seem to get a consistent answer has to do with "hitch." The specs on my 2015 Passport 2890RL says my hitch is "590". Shipping weight is 5390. Tell me if my math is wrong, but if 590 represents 10% of my total TT weight, does that mean I can only put 420 lbs in my TT before I exceed my hitch weight? My TT says its can "carry capacity" is 1810 lbs. My 2015 Tundra, with tow package, etc, according to RV Check, has a carry capacity of 1735 lbs. Also have Equalization bars put on by the RV dealer. First time out to a practice RV park 2 hours away seemed to ride OK, but I have to admit, I "don't know what I don't know." (Figured push-pull is normal.) I like the idea of keeping the TT weight down so my DW won't pimp out the TT so much. Still got a few practice trips before we head out for a 2,000 mile trip across the country each way. Would like to have this figured out before then. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:39 PM   #2
JRTJH
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The shipping weight is the actual "total" weight of the entire trailer (with no cargo and includes the hitch weight) as shipped from the factory to the dealer. That includes empty propane tanks, no battery and no fluids in any tanks.

The hitch weight is the actual weight of the hitch (Empty) as the trailer is shipped from the factory. That includes empty propane tanks, no battery and no fluids in any tanks.

Now, when you get ready to pick up the trailer from the dealer, he will have filled the propane tanks (5 gallon tanks = 20 pounds and 7.5 gallon tanks = 30 pounds each) he will have installed a 12 volt deep cycle battery (around 50 pounds) and you will have installed a weight distribution hitch on the trailer/truck (about 100 pounds).

So, your Passport has 5 gallon propane tanks (2) so you will have 40 pounds of propane, 50 pounds of battery to add to the hitch weight. That means it will weigh about 5390+40+50= 5480 (dry weight) with a tongue weight of 590+40+50 = 680 (hitch weight).

As you load your cargo and fill the water tank, a "portion" of that weight which is forward of the centerline of the axles will be felt on the tongue. Weight loaded into the trailer behind the centerline of the axles will reduce the weight on the tongue. (think teeter totter).

Don't forget that the actual weight which will be "added" to the Tundra's payload will be the "scaled" trailer hitch weight and you must also add the weight of the hitch assembly used to connect the two vehicles (probably about 100 pounds).

How you load your trailer, what cargo you carry in the truck and the weight of all your passengers will determine how "close" or how "comfortable" you are to your truck's GVW. Remember that anything (and everything) you load into the truck (cargo, tools, passengers, ice chests, etc) reduces the payload and therefor the amount of trailer hitch weight you can carry.

There are five values that you must consider. Truck GVW, Truck Payload, Truck GCW (total weight of the truck/trailer combo), Trailer GVW and Trailer Hitch weight. They are all inter-related and all of them need to remain below the stated limit for the rig.

ADDED: You should attempt to load your trailer so you maintain between 10% and 15% of the total trailer weight on the hitch. Most people find that they get a good comfortable tracking from the trailer at around 12%. That varies from rig to rig is no "one percentage" is right for every rig. Experiment with what weights seem to give you the most comfortable ride and tracking.

Your "carry capacity" is the "payload" for your trailer. That means that you can load that much cargo into the trailer before you hit your maximum trailer weight (GVW). Remember that the 90 pounds of propane and battery as well as any water or waste water is also a part of that "payload".

It's not really as complicated as it seems at first glance. Just sit down with a sheet of paper, draw 2 boxes, mark one box "truck" and one box "trailer". Put the actual weight and a maximum weight for the truck and trailer in the correct box, subtract the actual weight from the max and that's the most you can add to each box. Remember that the sum of both boxes can't exceed the GCWR of the truck and you'll figure it out. Good Luck !!!
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:40 PM   #3
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Ditto on what JRTJH said. The only way you will know for sure whats going on is to weigh your rig. Take your truck to the nearest truck stop that has some "cat" scales and fill it up with gas and weigh your truck only so you'll have a baseline of what your truck weighs. Then on your next "practice" trip, with camper in tow, packed and ready, stop by and weigh the whole rig. Then you will know how far over/under you are by doing a little math with your previous "truck only" weight. You will be able to calculate your trailer weight and your hitch weight within a few pounds depending on how much more cargo/people you have in your truck since the time you weighed your truck by itself. It would be best if you have your wife/kids and whatever else you will take camping that will be in the truck with you when you weigh your "truck only."
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:55 PM   #4
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"has a carry capacity of 1735 lbs" Check inside drivers side door, this will give the actual cargo and passengers that the truck is rated for with a separate label for dealer added weight that you deduct from this figure. 2015 Tundra two wheel drive, Dbl cab with 5.7 engine looked at last week was 1,500Lb.
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Old 04-13-2015, 06:05 PM   #5
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The 590 really means nothing and thus the 420 means nothing. Look at the total max weight and estimate about 12.5% give or take for tongue weight. Like others have said, watch your payload tongue weight plus everything in the truck.
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:30 PM   #6
Micah.TX
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Thanks to everyone for taking the time to explain this. I especially like the part of drawing the two boxes for TT and TV. I was planning on taking my TT and TV to a scale on the way to our next trip, but like the idea of taking the truck by itself, first (loaded like a trip) and getting a true weight.

On the true TV capacity, according to sticker in TV door, GVWR is 6900 lbs. Curb Wt = 5165 lbs. OK - Just saw the sticker in the truck that says 1440 lbs for cargo capacity. Add the two together and that only comes to 6605 total for dry and cargo weight. What happened to the remaining 295 lbs? If I go with RV Check, it list payload as 1735, when combined with dry weight = 6900 for GVWR. I'm probably splitting hairs, but it would be nice to know exactly what I'm working with. I know. Go with what's in the door.
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:44 PM   #7
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The only "valid" numbers for your truck are the ones you get from a certified scale. The sticker on the door is "as the truck left the factory" (hopefully). Once the dealer installed anything, you added a GPS, bed mat, tool box, floor mats, etc, that number from the factory no longer is valid. So, ....

The way to weigh your rig is to drive onto the CAT scales, truck front axle on one pad, rear axle on the next pad and both trailer axles on the third pad. STAY IN THE TRUCK. call for the weight, then get out, uncouple the WD bars and get back in the truck, get a second weight. Then pull off the scales, unhitch the trailer and get a third weight of the truck, front axle on one pad, rear axle on the second pad.

Armed with those numbers, you can get everything you need to determine the exact weights of the truck, the trailer, the rig, applied hitch weight and redistributed hitch weight.

Good Luck and it's great to see that you're concerned with what your rig weighs and that you have the desire to "do it the right way"
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Old 04-14-2015, 06:56 AM   #8
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The trailer manufacturer MUST publish a hitch/pin weight for every trailer they build. It’s part of the measuring factors the DOT regulations require.

It’s primary purpose is to establish a relationship between the published hitch weight and the trailer builders established total GAWR. When added together those figures MUST equal or exceed the established GVWR.

Once a customer/owner takes position of the trailer the hitch/pin weight becomes their sole responsibility.

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Old 04-14-2015, 08:54 AM   #9
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Just use as a example: my trailer's hitch wt. from factory is printed at 530 lbs. I checked the weight at a scale. It is right at 900 lbs loaded. I had full water, propane, 2 batteries and storage area had camping stuff. I do not load light, I carry what I think I need to camp with.
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:16 AM   #10
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The example of "real world hitch weight" that Ken/Claudia just posted is typical of most travel trailers. If we look at the weights he listed and break them down, it comes out like this:

Shipping weight: 5592
Empty hitch weight: 530
Payload: 1608
Trailer GVW: 7200

Actual hitch weight: 900

If we "do the math" his actual hitch weight is about 60% greater than advertised. Using his hitch weight, that's 900 divided by 7200 which gives a hitch weight percentage of 12.5% of total GVW. That's right in the middle of the 10-15% hitch weight range, which is typical for almost all travel trailers (that are properly loaded and balanced). It indicates that the cargo in his trailer is pretty well loaded and evenly distributed.

It goes on to show that even though the "factory is optimistic" about the hitch weight, using their numbers is nowhere near "real weights" that will be found in actual trailer use.
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Old 04-15-2015, 05:19 AM   #11
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I know this is nitpicking, but adding a 50 lb battery and 40 lbs of propane does not add 90 lbs to the hitch weight. An RV chassis is a sort of balance lever, the actual weight will depend on the suspension, number of axles, spread of the axles, and load added to the opposite end of the lever. If I placed 100 lbs of sandbags behind my rear axle, would I still have 90 lbs added to my hitch?

As many have stated, the only way to really know is to weigh the tongue fully loaded.
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Old 04-15-2015, 07:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkohler70 View Post
I know this is nitpicking, but adding a 50 lb battery and 40 lbs of propane does not add 90 lbs to the hitch weight. An RV chassis is a sort of balance lever, the actual weight will depend on the suspension, number of axles, spread of the axles, and load added to the opposite end of the lever. If I placed 100 lbs of sandbags behind my rear axle, would I still have 90 lbs added to my hitch?

As many have stated, the only way to really know is to weigh the tongue fully loaded.
I totally agree with you, that is very nitpicking. The actual calculations are somewhat involved and almost always, someone who is looking at a brochure and/or has walked through several RV's and is trying to decide if it's "too much to tow" doesn't have the information necessary to do calculations to achieve the accurate weight distribution. So do we need to not give information because it "should be completely accurate to the nearest pound" ? Or is it "close enough" for the explanation to state that the hitch bears the weight of the battery/propane in addition to the empty weight stated in the brochure ?

In laymen's terms, does it really matter that the explanation is "precise" by stating that the 90 pounds is not really 90 pounds but in each trailer model will differ slightly, on most travel trailers we're talking about less than 10% of that 90 pounds. Is it really that critical, so that 9 pounds is an issue "for explanation purposes" ? Should we not give any information until we have the precise measurements to calculate weight shift? Or should we include a "disclaimer" stating that figures are approximated, not exact?

Since you posed the issue, do you have a solution that would more closely meet the needs of the member asking for advice?
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Old 04-15-2015, 07:21 AM   #13
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I'd like to add to JRTJH's comment....

If in John's example of a 10% (9 pounds) variance in actual weight distribution at the hitch causes either being over or under limits by that amount, the end result is still the same. When dealing with weight limits, one should always consider maximum potential amount.

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Old 04-15-2015, 11:52 AM   #14
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I admitted it was nitpicking! If only my engineer father was still alive to explain it to me. I cannot even comprehend the math required to even somewhat accurately determine this.
If I only was curious enough to go to a scale and weigh my tongue with and without batteries and propane tanks.
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:00 PM   #15
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Having done weight and balance computations on aircraft before the days of load computers, rest assured, you don't want to even start to try to figure it out. But yes, there are formulas to use and measurements to be taken. Fortunately, in aircraft, It's "easy" because the measurements are given. In an RV, not so easy since every model is a different length, has different distances from C/L ball to C/L axles, different axle C/L measurements, different spring compression rates, different tire/wheel diameters, different.... You hopefully "get the picture" that trying to be precise is just not possible with the limited information available from someone who asks the question, "What does hitch weight really mean?" or "The brochure says the hitch weight is xxx, my truck can carry 1700 pounds, so I'm OK, right?"

Honestly, being "precise" or "nit-picking" only serves to "muddy the waters" for most of the members on this forum who are trying to get information relative to their RV purchase.

Not to belittle your father's profession, but trying to "go there" on an RV forum, when the question being asked is in pounds, then "metaphorically speaking, the ounces really are insignificant.

When your curiosity does "peak", post your findings for all of us to visualize. I don't think you'll find the actual weight of your full propane tanks and battery to be that far off when weighed individually and then added to the tongue and reweighed. As stated, if you're that close, you really don't need to be considering that trailer.

Again, if you do come up with a better way to explain to a novice, by all means, "jump into the pool, the water's fine."
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkohler70 View Post
I admitted it was nitpicking! If only my engineer father was still alive to explain it to me. I cannot even comprehend the math required to even somewhat accurately determine this.
If I only was curious enough to go to a scale and weigh my tongue with and without batteries and propane tanks.
Here is another wrench for you to consider. If your trailer was delivered to the dealer with propane tanks installed they were considered part of the - so called - curb weight. And that's full tanks.

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Old 04-15-2015, 01:58 PM   #17
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Here's more to consider. When I was trained and doing DOT scale wt checks. Those scales measure in 20lbs numbers min. and are or were when I did it 12 -13 years ago lastly allowed to be off be as much as 200lbs. Other scales may and can be different but, that's the way it was here from before 1987 to 2003.
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Old 04-15-2015, 06:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
The example of "real world hitch weight" that Ken/Claudia just posted is typical of most travel trailers. If we look at the weights he listed and break them down, it comes out like this:

Shipping weight: 5592
Empty hitch weight: 530
Payload: 1608
Trailer GVW: 7200

Actual hitch weight: 900

If we "do the math" his actual hitch weight is about 60% greater than advertised. Using his hitch weight, that's 900 divided by 7200 which gives a hitch weight percentage of 12.5% of total GVW. That's right in the middle of the 10-15% hitch weight range, which is typical for almost all travel trailers (that are properly loaded and balanced). It indicates that the cargo in his trailer is pretty well loaded and evenly distributed.

It goes on to show that even though the "factory is optimistic" about the hitch weight, using their numbers is nowhere near "real weights" that will be found in actual trailer use.
If he doesn't max out the payload.. tw % would actually be higher if packed really light could be well over 15%
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Old 04-18-2015, 08:14 AM   #19
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Lots of interesting comments. I've done a lot more research on weights than I thought I needed to do. A big part of the problem is the numbers are not consistent. Keystone website for my trailer has one set of numbers, but the tag in the door has another set. Same with my Tundra. (I know. Go with what's on the door.) This week, I did weighed my TV with a full tank of gas, and added the weight of the DW and cargo. Now, I'll go back next week and do the same with my TV and TT together on our way out of town. (Did it this way so I wouldn't have to unhitch, weigh a second time, re-hitch, while all the time people behind me wait.) I can take the first weigh-in of my TV and subtract it from the second weigh-in to get my tongue weight. Since I'll have a true weight for my TT, I can figure tongue % and all the rest. If anyone sees a flaw in my plan, let me know! Thanks.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:20 AM   #20
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Sounds like a good plan. I would have the front and rears axle wt.s of the truck. So when you have the trailer hooked up you can see how much wt. is being added or subtracted from the front truck axle. Best would be no change but, you likely will have some change and might want to adjust the hitch to better transfer the weight.
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