Diesel Truck Wars

[bsmith0404]

We've all avoided the truck wars. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen someone say "not trying to start a truck war, all 3 are good". I figured why not have a thread where we can all put it out there, what do you like/dislike about each. Everyone has personal opinions, some based on experience, some based on "I just like/dislike X". Don't be afraid to lay it out on the line. If you are reading this thread, put your thick skin on and don't be offended by others opinions. Here it goes.

Dodge: I think the cummins is probably the best/most proven engine of the three. I don't necessarily like the sound of it (too much like a farm tractor), but it is maintenance friendly and will run forever. The manual transmission seems to be the transmission of choice when buying a Ram. The automatic has been known to have issues. Hopefully the new Aisin option will address this and put the tranny in line with the Allison. Many people I know have had problems with the front ends. It seems there is a weak link in the wheel bearings. The seats lack comfort when compared to the Silverado and Ford.

Silverado: The Duramax is a good engine with a proven Isuzu diesel history. The early years had injector problems, but that has been addressed and is no longer an issue. The 2011's had some issues with the Nox Sensors with the new DEF system, but under the 100,000 mile warranty, a DEF system recall, a new sensor and computer flash has resolved this as well. Not aware of the problem in newer models. The Dmax is not as maintenance friendly as the cummins. The Allison transmission is a beast and IMO the best in the diesel world. A manual option as found in the Ram is not a concern for the GM truck, Allison is the way to go. The ride and comfort is probably the best of the 3 brands. That has lead some people to claim it as a big car not a work truck, but this truck will definitely take care of business.

Ford: I'll admit I'm not a Ford guy and don't know a lot about them. IMO, they do have the best looking dually. The F350 DRW has a nice stance that is appealing to the eye. Ford suffers from the history of multiple changes to the engine department. I believe they have been through more versions than the other 2. The 6.0 was a nightmare for Ford and they are still partially in that shadow. Ford has finally taken all diesel engine production in-house. I think this is a good move on their part, time will tell. I am not familiar with the transmission or interior of the Fords, so I'll leave that area to others. Ford is definitely the stronger of the 3 companies financially, but I don't think any of them are going anywhere anytime soon.

Fuel mileage differences between the 3 seems to be minimal. I've heard outstanding and dissapointing claims for all. As for towing/load capacities, again I don't see a big difference in this area. I know one then the other will produce a greater payload/max towing capability, but for RV use, they all will drag 15k lbs or more down the road without concern.

For me, I prefer the Dmax. I'm am GM partial, have always had good luck with them and love the comfort while going down the road. The Allison/Duramax combo is an outstanding marriage that does everything I need it to do with little worry about reliability.

Please feel free to add to/debate my thoughts.

[Kristi]

Ok, I'll jump in. From a co-pilot, part time driver perspective, I like the way the GMC rides down the road. The Ford is a prettier truck on the outside but something about the ride bothers my motion sickness. That's just a personal issue though. I haven't been in a dodge in a while so I really can't comment on them.

[GaryWT]

I have just always been a Ford guy and Ford sells as many trucks as Chevy and Dodge combined. I like the look of the Ford although the Dodge looks good too. I have looked at Chevy a couple times but the deals and cost were so far out of line that they chased me back to Ford. My son has a Chevy but we still let him live here, lol. I think for many it is just a way it always has been. I am a Nissan person and would never own a Toyota of any kind, just the way it is.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by GaryWT

I have just always been a Ford guy and Ford sells as many trucks as Chevy and Dodge combined. I like the look of the Ford although the Dodge looks good too. I have looked at Chevy a couple times but the deals and cost were so far out of line that they chased me back to Ford. My son has a Chevy but we still let him live here, lol. I think for many it is just a way it always has been. I am a Nissan person and would never own a Toyota of any kind, just the way it is.

Ahh one of those.....Don't forget about GMC. The combined numbers of Chevy and GMC actually outsold Ford F series in 2008/2009 (not sure how many years prior, the data I found only breaks down individual years back to 2008). Fords "best selling truck" is all hype, well kind of. Actual numbers for Ford and GM sales since 1998 are 11,931,954 and 11,906,396 respectively. That's an annual average of 745,747 and 744,150 respectively. I don't know how many trucks Dodge sells, but it has to be more that 2k per year.

Now with GMs "longest lasting trucks on the road" campaign, I guess that just means more Ford parts are available in the salvage yards. I'm sure your son is willing to go pick those up for you

[trueweb]

I looked at all of them. Didn't drive a Dodge, but didn't need to. Wasn't really attracted to them interior or exterior, so that was easy.

Between Ford and Chevy/GMC it really came down to price in the end. Both have great engines, transmissions and heritage. Both are good companies. I'm a little biased toward Ford because they survived the economic downturn without a personal loan from me of which I haven't seen a penny back on that investment in Chevy and Chrysler yet.

The Chevy has a more car-like interior, I liked that. The Ford lets you know you're in a "truck". Everything is square and blocky and "thick". I find the Ford exterior is more attractive to me. I like the classic round wheel-wells and fender flares versus the oddly square ones on the Chevy. The seats felt different, yet both were comfortable and completely adjustable. Suspension and handling was hard to differentiate as well. These are simply huge, heavy trucks.

The bed step and handhold on the Ford is far more convenient than you might imagine. Being able to lock your keys in the car with the door keypad is also handy on the Ford. I find it very useful when mountain biking or dirt biking and I don't want to risk losing them out on the trail.

When it came down to it, the Ford dealer was willing to go about $6,000 lower on the price for the exact same configuration and color vehicle, so I now own a Ford Super Duty Diesel and I'm really enjoying it. Fuel mileage has been reasonable/expected. My wife also enjoys driving it. It tows great, runs great, stops great, "yada yada". No complaints so far, I hope to own it for years.

I should mention, I'm surprised by the resale value of all brand diesel trucks. I also shopped for used ones and could hardly justify the savings.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by trueweb

The bed step and handhold on the Ford is far more convenient than you might imagine. Being able to lock your keys in the car with the door keypad is also handy on the Ford. I find it very useful when mountain biking or dirt biking and I don't want to risk losing them out on the trail.

I do like this about the Ford. GM finally has a step in the corner of the bumper that I really like. I have considered installing one on my truck. That little step 6" closer to the ground makes a huge difference. I can only imagine how nice it is to lock the keys in the truck when going out biking. I can only imagine it because I can't do it...I guess I could call On-Star, but I'd have to renew it first.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Festus2

I really don't want or need a "thick skin" nor do I want to "put it all out there" and participate in a "truck war".

To me, this kind of "discussion" is neither helpful nor informative and does, as always, goes around in a circle accomplishing very little, if anything.

There, "I've laid it on the line".

Festus2, I have to say I disagree with you. I've already seen some very good informative information being put out in this thread. Stuff that I don't always think about, but obviously is important or a decision maker for some. Yes we are having a little fun with it as well. The main intent is to have one place where people aren't holding back what they really think about each truck, providing good, bad, and ugly information that a perspective buyer trying to decide on a new truck can read about. I think too many of the other "which truck?" threads are poliitcally correct.

[Jim & DJ]

No war here. In 2007 we purchased a new Ford F-350-C/C-4/4-srw-6.0 D with all the goodies. Have almost 90,000 mi on it with only two small problems, fixed in a day. 90 K is not much for a seven year old truck but nothing holds it back and don't have to use DEF.

This truck is a dream to drive and should last me the rest of my life.

I did test drive a Dodge at the time of looking for something new and it rode like a snow sled going down a hill out of control. Maybe that is whey they are calling Dodge pick-ups "Ram"

As for the GM products, they look great, that's as close as I can get to them.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Festus2, I have to say I disagree with you. I've already seen some very good informative information being put out in this thread. Stuff that I don't always think about, but obviously is important or a decision maker for some. Yes we are having a little fun with it as well. The main intent is to have one place where people aren't holding back what they really think about each truck, providing good, bad, and ugly information that a perspective buyer trying to decide on a new truck can read about. I think too many of the other "which truck?" threads are poliitcally correct.

This is a family forum and some thoughts aren't appropriate for publication. So, in keeping with that consideration, as long as someone doesn't get offended by the "open discussion" the thread can remain (probably in a different location as it's more "opinion" than towing related). To all responders, if you go too far toward the "bad side" one of the moderators will have to reign in the thread and probably close/delete it, so remember that posters have feelings and they can get pretty heated at times. Responsible conversation is OK, not yelling and finger pointing !!!

[Ram189]

Someone mentioned motion sickness in a Ford.

I am the service director at a GM store and cannot ride in a GM truck. To me they are very soft and spongey feeling. I would rather ride in a Ford or Ram truck all day long.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Ram189

Someone mentioned motion sickness in a Ford.

I am the service director at a GM store and cannot ride in a GM truck. To me they are very soft and spongey feeling. I would rather ride in a Ford or Ram truck all day long.

I found the motion sickness comment interesting. My wife also suffers from motion sickness. She doesn't have a problem in our Silverado, but it does raise an eyebrow. If I ever decide to change brands...or even staying with GM, I now have something new that needs to be considered.

[chuckster57]

I likes my old Ford. NO smog, NO sensors, NO PCM....doesn't go fast up the hill. But in 2009 pulled a '97 Jayco 323RKS, Me DW and SIL along with lots of "stuff" across the country and back. Did hiway 58 in Ca (Tehachapi pass) Continental divide twice, Park city grade West bound, and Donner pass. 8511 miles, NOT A SINGLE issue..

'94 Turbo IDI and now it has 74,000 miles on the ODO.

[bsmith0404]

All, I think we are getting some great comments/feedback here that anyone considering a new big 3 diesel can value from. This thread is starting to be exactly what I hoped for, good honest opinions. I think we are already seeing that what some may call a nice ride, other's say is squishy. What one says feels like a out of control sled going down a hill, another says feels like a truck. I hope the comments keep coming and that nobody gets offended from a little poke, like GaryWT and I did (posts 3 & 4). Again, please keep the honest feedback/thoughts coming and do not get offended if someone does not agree with you.

I've heard that the perfect truck would be a F series body with GM interior set on a GM chassis with a Cummins and Allison powertrain. I thought that was pretty close, I'm starting to think many would disagree.

[JRTJH]

My 93 Ford F250 was the last year of the NA diesel in the Ford F250/350 lineup. In 94, they were all (I believe) turbocharged models. Pulling the pass on I40 outside Albuquerque in 1994 I "promised myself" I'd never do it again pulling the Holiday Rambler. Well, again in 1998 we went to Las Vegas with the same truck/trailer and it was even worse. By the time we got to Gallup, the front of that "pretty white trailer" was covered with diesel soot and the inside smelled more like a fueling lane at the local truck stop than the inside of a luxury travel trailer.

When we got back home, the first place I went was to the Ford dealer to order the "new superduty" model that was being introduced. Still a 7.3L, but there was a "world of difference" made by the turbo. While the days of NA diesels in light duty trucks seems "long gone" even back then, diesel had its advantages. Whether it's Chev/GMC, Dodge/RAM or Ford, it's as much a personal choice of what's important in any particular situation as it is which truck is "best, second best or least best" Seems I think I just said they're all "good" since I didn't use the words, "bad" or "worst" or "worse"

My only complaint about any of the diesel models is the noise during warmup. Start any cold diesel in an enclosed garage and you'd best have earplugs. The newer ones, not as much as previous technology, but you'd also better have a respirator if the garage is closed.... Thankfully, most of that is "an era past", but still important to anyone considering buying a used diesel not of the current technology.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

My only complaint about any of the diesel models is the noise during warmup. Start any cold diesel in an enclosed garage and you'd best have earplugs. The newer ones, not as much as previous technology, but you'd also better have a respirator if the garage is closed.... Thankfully, most of that is "an era past", but still important to anyone considering buying a used diesel not of the current technology.

I'm not sure which year Dodge and Ford finally got the rattle traps to quiet down, but until the Dmax came out I think everyone just assumed if you wanted diesel you had to put up with the noise. If anyone has the info on the "quiet" year cutoffs for each, that would be good info to add. I know if I was searching for a used Dodge, it'd have to be after the noise reduction.

[chuckster57]

In 94, they were all (I believe) turbocharged models.

Being as how I own a '94...There were three flavors that year. Powerstroke was introduced mid year, you know which one you have by the 8th character of the VIN.

"M" is a naturally aspirated 7.3 IDI
"K" is a factory turbo'd IDI ( what I have)
"F" is a direct injection Powerstroke.

[therink]

Subscribed. Im in the market now, so Im along for the ride.

[BOWWOW]

My current TV is a Chevy, love it. It's quiet and that Allison is a beast in the mountains here. I have put that Duramax through some hard times.

I owned one Ford a 1997 F350 DRW it towed well but very loud and smelled terrible, it caught on fire and burned down on Wolf Creek pass.

My first Dodge A 1993 DRW had 287,000 miles on it I put one tranny and a turbo on it then I gave it to my brother, he's still towing with it.

My second Dodge pulled hard but it developed the infamous Dodge death wobble so after throwing $5,000.00 at it I traded it in on my Chevy when everybody and their brother were looking for the 5.9l after the 6.7l came out.

At this point my next TV will also be a Chevy. The DW aka "The War Department" does not like the loud trucks.

[1995Suburban]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I've heard that the perfect truck would be a F series body with GM interior set on a GM chassis with a Cummins and Allison powertrain. I thought that was pretty close, I'm starting to think many would disagree.

Well, I'm pretty close. My tv is a 95 suburban with a 24v Cummins, also the nv4500 and rear axle out of the donor truck. I also ditched the ifs for a solid axle font end. (Had to, to support the weight of the cummins)No car like ride here.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

Very happy with my 2004 F-250 with a 6.0L. Yep, I've read all the stories and a
lot of forum reading and discussions later I took mine to Mesa, Az. and turned it
over the the folks at BulletProof Diesel on a Monday morning. They took out the stock
oil cooler, EGR cooler, the OEM water pump with the plastic impeller, the oil
pressure switch, water temp. switch, removed the heads sent them to a
machine shop to be magni-fluxed (mine passed), they then they installed
re-built heads with sterilite valve seats, a brand new BPD water pump (billet
aluminum impeller), APR studs for the heads and manifolds, disassembled and
inspected all the injectors and re-built them with new o-rings and seals. Changed out
the ICP and IRP. When they checked my alternator they found it had a bad diode so it
was swapped out for a re-maned one. They installed a new external oil cooler, oil filter
with a thermal by-pass they call it the cold weather by-pass (cracks all the way open
when oil temp. hits 180*). They also installed a wire harness that keeps the fan motor
wiring from being eaten by the fan. They also did a complete flush of the cooling system
and re-filled it with the newer version of the Gold anti-freeze. Also included was what is
referred to as a Blue Spring upgrade to the secondary fuel pump.
All of this was accomplished by Wednesday afternoon. They took it for a test drive from
Mesa, Az. to Payson, Az. and back, checked it for leaks, drips and errors... called me and
had me come get it. Asked if I'd do the same test drive then bring it back so they could
re-do the leaks, drips, errors bit and give them a lot of my hard earned $'s. Rascal and I
were back home Friday afternoon. Did I mention it was 115*F Wed. afternoon that week?
I've been very happy with the results so far, mileage is about 18.5 not towing so far. Keeps
improving with each tank fill.
Just a very happy customer with a truck that will in all likely-hood outlive me now.
Basically, it was an in frame short block overhaul.

hankaye