Keystone poor warr.

[Prellberg49]

Bob Martin - President
Keystone RV Company 5/15/2011
2642 Hackberry
Goshen, IN 46527

Re: Mold and water damage since new – 4YDT32B2777202024
Pictures attached.

Dear Mr. Martin,

I purchased a Brand New 2007 32BHDS Keystone- Hornet from Jellystone RV in Fremont Indiana. I purchased it in October 2007, so I only used it for a weekend before it was stored inside for the winter. I than purchased a seasonal lot at Jellystone Park (Fremont Indiana) in April 2008, so the trailer only has about 75 miles on it, “so no twisting and torqueing” I called service a few times for misc. issues. The second year the trailer was stored outside on my seasonal site, I closed it up for the season on October 2008, the slide outs were closed as recommended by Keystone, upon my return in April 2009 to open the trailer for the season I moved the slide outs out only to find the carpet was soaked, only in front of the couch, and had mold on the wood work around my entertainment center and my carpet.

I called Jellystone service and had them out to look at it right away, they said they can’t see where any water was coming in, they sealed a few areas and said that should fix it. The floor was no longer wet while the slide out was open, but I noticed that the header panel over the slide out was soft. I had the service department out again, they put on a slide topper, they said this helps the leaks because the wind and raid blows in the seals, they said my trailer will not leak anymore if I had them install this topper. I paid $550.00 for the slide topper. I noticed after every rain that the header panel was still spongy, they said it can’t be leaking and it will take some time to dry.

I closed up the trailer for the season in October 2009, I closed the slide outs as recommended by keystone and made sure the top was clean and all the seals. I came back to check the carpet in November 2009 so I moved the slide outs out and the carpet seemed to be dry. I came back in April 2010 to open the trailer for the year and the carpet under the slide out (just in front of the couch) was soaked. I had than moved the trailer to Wafflefarm in Coldwater Michigan. I had Hayletts RV service out to look at the trailer and they could not figure it out either. They said since I moved the trailer that sometimes it fixes the leak, the header panel was still spongy. I did not have a visual water leak…. In October 2010 I closed the trailer up for the season, I checked the seals and the roof to make sure it was clean before I closed the slide outs.

Upon my return to open the trailer in April 2011, I found that my floor was soaked not only in front of the couch but also in the back bunk area, again just where the slide out was moved back out. ( this floor seems to be solid) I noticed that my floor in front of the couch was real soft so I cut the carpet and the floor to see if I could see something. I found out that the floor was caved in and mold was all over, this is about a 2 feet by five feet section in front of my couch my header panel is also rotten, as well as the wood around my slide out has twisted from water. The pictures are from in front of the couch, I can’t even close my slide out the floor is to rotten, this is sad for a 2007 trailer.

This past weekend my neighbor had a representative out on his RV from Dutchman so I spoke to the representative and asked if he could look at my damage since he is a professional, He said the trailer has leaked since I got it, he said the damage is extensive; he also said the mold is very dangerous for my 2 and 4 year olds. I feel since this has leaked from day one, and mind you no leak was visible and I had several service calls as a result, I feel Keystone should fix this damage.

I would also like to know if the mold could affect my children?.

I look forward to your reply,

Sincerely,


Rolf Prellberg


Keystones Reply was from a CS person, it is out of warranty and there is nothing we can do……..ta da !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Festus2]

After reading your letter to Keystone's president, I can understand your frustration and anger with the leaking problems and subsequent damage caused by those leaks on your 2007 Hornet. However, I am left to wonder why you would think that Keystone's 1 year limited warranty is "poor".
As I understand it, you indicated that this unit leaked from "day one" and that it has been leaking at various times for almost 4 years - from October 2007 through April, 2011.
I find it difficult to understand why, after almost 4 years, you have just recently contacted Keystone and made a request that they "should fix this damage". A limited 1 year warranty is exactly what it says..... 1 year. Don't you feel it is unrealistic to expect Keystone, or any manufacturer for that matter, to extend their stated 1 year warranty for another 3 years in your particular situation?

Keystone has made it very clear that the owner has some responsibilities - one of which is to "maintain the exterior sealants of the unit to prevent foreseeable secondary moisture or water damage to the unit from rain,leaks condensation and any other accumulation of water in the unit - staining, mold formation, and floor deterioration." It is also left to the owner to ensure that routine maintenance, including caulking, is carried out on a routine basis. Were frequent inspections and maintenance of all the seals and all caulking carried out over this 4 year period?
According to your letter, there were two periods where the unit was left unchecked for 6 months ------ closed up in October of '08 and '09 and not opened up until April of the following year ---- 6 months later. What do you expect if you don't check your RV for that length of time? Perhaps you do not live close enough to make regular checks on your unit but most prudent owners would take steps to ensure that their RV's are routinely checked when in storage - especially if stored outside.
Unless I misread your letter, you discovered a wet carpet in April and a "spongy header panel", left and closed the unit up in October. I am left to wonder why you would lock up and leave you unit knowing that portions of it were moist?

In summary, I think that your expectations of Keystone are not only unreasonable but unrealisitic. I probably will be accused of being uncaring and unsympathetic to those folks, like yourself, who have had major problems with their RV's. I wouldn't wish your problems on anyone and it is unfortunate that owning your Hornet has been an unpleasant experience for you and your family. I just don't agree that Keystone should now - almost 4 years later - fix your problem.

[Me.Bikes.Dogs]

Personally I would never leave unchecked a unit that hasn't sat through a winter outside before. I'm not that trusting. I've rebuilt motors, cars, and motorcycles and I know how one simple issue can spiral into big problems in a hurry (don't ask). I would at least check it after the first good rain, after the first hard freeze, after the snow melts and finally after the first heavy spring rain.

It would seem to me this is less of a Keystone issue and more of a Jellystone RV issue. As a dealer they are the ones that are supposed to fix the problems, at best Keystone would just pick up the tab (within the first year).

You said the dealer worked on it and said it was fixed. It sounds to me like the dealer never tested their fix thoroughly. They sold you a slide topper saying that would fix it. Really? A slide topper would fix a leak?

I am sorry this happened to you and I feel your pain but I don't think you'll find any RV manufacturers that will turn a one year warranty into a 3 to 4 year warranty, especially when the dealer had every opportunity to solve the problem to begin with. I'm still blown away about the slide topper!

Get that baby fixed and/or buy a different brand if you must, but don't leave it outside, especially through the winter, without a periodic checkup.

[Prellberg49]

Hey Guys,

It was a leak that was not visable, The slide outs were left open from April 15th until October 15th, nothing was ever wet in this period, not even after a heavy rain.... The unit was 200 miles away but I did check on it twice every winter. Both times I checked it was dry, but every year in April I would open the slide outs and the floor where the slide out covered was wet.

When the slide outs were open it was never ever wet. Only when a rep. came out for a neighbors RV and I asked him to look at mine, he is the one that told me that "it apears that the unit has leaked from day one, again no visual leaks, no visual damage, until I cut the flooring and looked under the carpet. I feel Keystone under the circumstances should in fact stand behind there product at this point, and yes, yearly I would reseal all areas on the roof and sides, my RV is washed and hand waxed monthly.

[katie2011]

This same scenario happened to my Daughter and husband on their GulfStream TT. Their dealer was totally useless in fixing the leak within the warranty period so they contacted GulfStream. To say that the dealer and manufacturer played the game of pointing fingers would be an understatement. After much frustration they contacted and filed a claim with the Texas DVM which administers the state's a Lemon Law. Wala, all the sudden things began to happen. However, my daughter's husband had to take a moister meter which reads through walls and prove to the dealer and GulfStream representative that the inside of the wall was wet. The dealer then opened the wall and found all wood structure was rotted and molded. GulfStream would not replace the trailer but finally did agree to build a new slide unit which after one year of not being able to use was installed by the dealer. GulfStream was required to compensate them for the time the TT was not usable. To add insult to injury, GulfStream sent a 1099 to IRS stating that the compensation was income. This required letters and documentation to IRS to exclude the compensation from their tax return. DO YOU THINK THEY WILL EVER PURCHASE ANOTHER GULFSTREAM PRODUCE AGAIN? NADA!!!!! Apparently, from your report, Keystone also has a problem with dealers too,

[cpaulsen]

Originally Posted by Prellberg49

Hey Guys,

It was a leak that was not visable, The slide outs were left open from April 15th until October 15th, nothing was ever wet in this period, not even after a heavy rain.... The unit was 200 miles away but I did check on it twice every winter. Both times I checked it was dry, but every year in April I would open the slide outs and the floor where the slide out covered was wet.

When the slide outs were open it was never ever wet. Only when a rep. came out for a neighbors RV and I asked him to look at mine, he is the one that told me that "it apears that the unit has leaked from day one, again no visual leaks, no visual damage, until I cut the flooring and looked under the carpet. I feel Keystone under the circumstances should in fact stand behind there product at this point, and yes, yearly I would reseal all areas on the roof and sides, my RV is washed and hand waxed monthly.

Checked it twice every winter but you washed and had waxed it monthly??? Mine sits by my house and I check it about evrey week. If I found something wet....IT would have been at the dealer asap and back at the dealer if I found it wet again. I wouldn't blame Keystone.....I would fault your dealer.

[Prellberg49]

Checked it twice every winter but you washed and had waxed it monthly??? Mine sits by my house and I check it about evrey week. If I found something wet....IT would have been at the dealer asap and back at the dealer if I found it wet again. I wouldn't blame Keystone.....I would fault your dealer.

Dear C Paulsen,

I am not sure if you are aware it snows in Michigan. With that said, I washed in waxed it all summer, I did not wash and wax it in the winter. ??? Again I will say, it was never wet "visual" , so.....I could have checked it every hour it would have done zero..I did have the dealer involved several times, they said they could find nothing wrong. I guess I will contact my insurance company and let there big attys sue Keystone since they do not stand behind there product....I will contact the atty general for a lemon law as well.

[Outbackmel]

Let's get real here. Many suits from consumers get settled out of court without admission of anything. Sometimes it's the only option left. Often manufacturers do not have enough complaints within a warranty period to cure all. Some consumers simply repair and trade out for fear of having to present a future buyer of his/her item "full disclosure". This really comes into play with water damage and MOLD. (and your issue is now on record with Keystone).

A manufacturer carries an implied OBLIGATION which conveys to the buyer, through the dealer, that their product meets it's intended use. The courts are FULL of cases where the product did not meet it's consumer expectation because of failure. AND it can be a failure of "purchased" products, installed by the manufacturer. Quite often these failures or issues come to light long after the so called warranty has lapsed.

Just look at cases of severe personal injury or worse from vehicle tire failures. The vehicle manufacturer has an OBLIGATION to put wheels and tires on which will transport you safely often beyond the warranty period.
Millions upon millions of dollars have been paid out to consumers.

Yes, as a consumer, you have responsibilities to read your manual and perform recommended maintenance at the proper interval.

My recommendation is get a lawyer and I'll bet one call by him/her and your Keystone executive echelon will be guiding you back to a dealer for repairs.

I love this forum and respect the opinions expressed. HOWEVER, there comes a time when you need to shoulder the burden of responsibility to avail yourself
to excellent legal counsel.

Unless you are trying to fix this mess yourself with a saw and duct tape; you are done here. Time to show them you mean business!

[cpaulsen]

Originally Posted by Prellberg49

Checked it twice every winter but you washed and had waxed it monthly??? Mine sits by my house and I check it about evrey week. If I found something wet....IT would have been at the dealer asap and back at the dealer if I found it wet again. I wouldn't blame Keystone.....I would fault your dealer.

Dear C Paulsen,

I am not sure if you are aware it snows in Michigan. With that said, I washed in waxed it all summer, I did not wash and wax it in the winter. ??? Again I will say, it was never wet "visual" , so.....I could have checked it every hour it would have done zero..I did have the dealer involved several times, they said they could find nothing wrong. I guess I will contact my insurance company and let there big attys sue Keystone since they do not stand behind there product....I will contact the atty general for a lemon law as well.

I am aware it snows in Michigan...I am in Northern Ca. and it snows a lot here also....plus rain and very cold temps....thats why I check my 5th wheel every week....all over!

[gj87xj]

Utilize your available resources to hold these shady dealers accountable. Make complaints to the BBB, FTC and any other entity that fields these complaints. Its amazing how quickly companies respond to complaints filed with these entities. Of course document your issues and contacts with the dealer and stay on top of the issues. If you let them slide for an excessive period of time you have no one to blame but yourself.

I hope you can get some resolution!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by gj87xj

Utilize your available resources to hold these shady dealers accountable. Make complaints to the BBB, FTC and any other entity that fields these complaints. Its amazing how quickly companies respond to complaints filed with these entities. Of course document your issues and contacts with the dealer and stay on top of the issues. If you let them slide for an excessive period of time you have no one to blame but yourself.

I hope you can get some resolution!

Prellberg49, the OP on this thread has made a total of 3 posts, all on this thread, he was last online here on September 18, at 7:28PM. Chances are he will not see your post, nor will it benefit his warranty issues.

It seems futile that some posters ask a question, voice a concern, then essentially disappear from the face of the earth without any resolution, or at least confirmation that they received any of what they were seeking. I'd think it only polite that posters acknowledge what they're given when they ask for it. It would benefit everyone here to know the results of the efforts.

Hmmmmmmm

[Piex2]

I have just read all the posts about Keystone warranty, if we are looking at purchasing a used unit (used 2 seasons). Has anyone purchased the extended warranty and is it worth it. Looking at a 2010 keystone Laredo fifth wheel. Thanks.

[Festus2]

This topic has been thoroughly discussed on the forum and I would suggest doing a forum search of extended warranty by using the search feature found on the forum. You can read or browse through all of the threads and posts and find various thoughts and opinions about whether or not they are a good idea.