Filon front cap issues

[FlaTraveler]

I am gathering a list of fellow Keystone, Thor, etc. product owners who have had the front cap delaminate and had to spend the money from their own pocket to fix this inherent defect. As Keystone is ignoring the problem and not doing anything to change it, we are eligible to start a class action suit.
I KNOW the numbers of us are large.
Let's gather as one and force them to redress this problem and realize that we all spend a large amount of money purchasing a product that may last only months before mold makes it useless. One that many have spent $3k out of their pocket to replace the front piece, only to have it bubble and leak again? Please private message me with your name and contact info.
I am tired of shoddy materials costing myself and others money needlessly.
And I can't wait as there are one or two on here who seem to be keystone employees, constantly defending the manf.

[Festus2]

FlaTraveler -

I would suggest that you read the disclaimer (printed in red) found at the bottom of this page. In addition, to the best of my knowledge, there are no members on here who are Keystone employees.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by FlaTraveler

I am gathering a list of fellow Keystone, Thor, etc. product owners who have had the front cap delaminate and had to spend the money from their own pocket to fix this inherent defect. As Keystone is ignoring the problem and not doing anything to change it, we are eligible to start a class action suit.
I KNOW the numbers of us are large.
Let's gather as one and force them to redress this problem and realize that we all spend a large amount of money purchasing a product that may last only months before mold makes it useless. One that many have spent $3k out of their pocket to replace the front piece, only to have it bubble and leak again? Please private message me with your name and contact info.
I am tired of shoddy materials costing myself and others money needlessly.
And I can't wait as there are one or two on here who seem to be keystone employees, constantly defending the manf.

It's been my experience that the only beneficiary of class action suits is the legal firm hired to "protect and serve" those seeking redress. I recall a suit against Nike where I received $0.80, one against Compaq where I received $0.36 and one against Abu-Garcia in which I received $1.25. The NFL players class action suit over care for head injuries is one of the biggest settlements in sports history and already they are saying that after "legal fees" are deducted, there's not enough money to care for the injured players, so again, the lawyers are the only ones with any substantial benefit.

I'm not sure that an internet forum is the proper place for someone to organize a class action suit against any manufacturer or group of manufacturers. Flatraveler, you mention Thor, etc. in your post. Are you a member of any other recreational vehicle forums representing owners of other brands of RV's? and if so, have you addressed your desire to initiate a class action suit on those forums? (or is Keystone your only objective?)

And, in response to your last allegation, just exactly what do you mean by "I can't wait" ? For the record, there are no known Keystone employees that monitor this site, none that are members of this site (in any official capacity) and none that are known to the moderators of this site. If you might casually think that any of the moderators are employees of Keystone, please make your allegation publicly so we can all refute your belief.

[JRTJH]

Upon reviewing previous posts from Flatraveler, I noticed in a recent post by him that he owns a Dutchman RV, not a Keystone.

Flatraveler, If I may ask:

1. What is your motivation for posting a request for class action suit respondents who own Keystone RV's when your own RV is a Dutchman?

2. Have you posted your request in the Dutchman Owner's Forum? It would seem logical that is where you would initiate finding people for a class action suit against the manufacturer of YOUR RV. I just checked the Dutchman Forum at http://www.dutchmenowners.org/forums/ and there is no post related to fiberglass or front cap damage, nor is there any post relating to a class action suit that has been posted in the last 7 months (back to May 2013).

I'd have to ask you, simply, why are you trying to get Keystone owners to rally around your Dutchman product's short comings if you haven't even tried to get Dutchman owners to listen to you?

Regards,

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by FlaTraveler

As Keystone is ignoring the problem and not doing anything to change it, we are eligible to start a class action suit.

And I can't wait as there are one or two on here who seem to be keystone employees, constantly defending the manf.

FlaTraveler -
Since you own a 2012 Kodiak by Dutchmen, I am wondering why you would expect Keystone to take an interest in and solve a problem with an RV that they don't even manufacture. If you did own a Keystone product then I could understand why you might be upset with them - but you don't.

As you know, Keystone and Dutchmen are both owned by Thor Industries. If you have an issue with your Kodiak, wouldn't it make more sense to file your class action suit with Dutchmen or Thor or both and look for support on a Dutchmen forum?

I am at a loss to understand why you as a Kodiak (Dutchmen) owner would join a Keystone forum and after submitting 5 posts, ask our Keystone members for support in a class action suit against a non-Keystone product.

[billb800si]

Silence from FlaTraveler is overwhelming...

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Festus2

....there are no members on here who are Keystone employees.

I don't know who is a Keystone employee; or if there even are any - doubtful..

HOWEVER, I am an employee of a big evil oil company (Fortune Less than 5), and I encourage EVERYONE to move about in their RVs on North America's highways as much as possible.

Thank you for your support.

[FlaTraveler]

Actually, I listed Keystone as they are the subsequent and current owner of Dutchmen (or manager as I know some like to parse sentences).
Thor is listed as the corporate parent, and I have not hit others as of yet. Got to start somewhere.
Disclaimers are useless. Anyone can lie online and many do.
Class action suits do have a purpose. If they can stop defective or dangerous manufacturing, they have achieved their goal.
IS your current camper going to be your last? What if we stop the manufacturer's from using this product in the future? That is a future benefit to you. Possibly forcing a change in products to one that lasts the entire life expectancy of our units, instead of only its infancy?
However from replies I have seen from JRTJH, nothing is to anyone's benefit. He is definitely shilling for the industry instead of supporting others who are experiencing issues.
As for silence, I am not retired. I have a full time job as well as consulting work. I am not able to be online nonstop to belittle any and all posters with an issue. That also means that if I spend $20k $30k or $100k+ on a unit that I don't have time to reseal every caulked point 30-60 days, which is unreasonable.
So forgive me for wanting to look into an action that might benefit people.
I forgot most want to blame others or criticize instead of being proactive.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by FlaTraveler

Actually, I listed Keystone as they are the subsequent and current owner of Dutchmen (or manager as I know some like to parse sentences).
Thor is listed as the corporate parent, and I have not hit others as of yet. Got to start somewhere.
Disclaimers are useless. Anyone can lie online and many do.
Class action suits do have a purpose. If they can stop defective or dangerous manufacturing, they have achieved their goal.
IS your current camper going to be your last? What if we stop the manufacturer's from using this product in the future? That is a future benefit to you. Possibly forcing a change in products to one that lasts the entire life expectancy of our units, instead of only its infancy?
However from replies I have seen from JRTJH, nothing is to anyone's benefit. He is definitely shilling for the industry instead of supporting others who are experiencing issues.
As for silence, I am not retired. I have a full time job as well as consulting work. I am not able to be online nonstop to belittle any and all posters with an issue. That also means that if I spend $20k $30k or $100k+ on a unit that I don't have time to reseal every caulked point 30-60 days, which is unreasonable.
So forgive me for wanting to look into an action that might benefit people.
I forgot most want to blame others or criticize instead of being proactive.

Please drive far and please drive often.

[hankpage]

Okay .... Now I have to get my 2¢ in here.

If I had an out of warranty problem with my '04 Dodge/Cummins should I recruit Ford owners on a Ford forum to sue Ford because at the time I bought it Ford held 10% of Cummins stock??????

One of the best parts of this forum is to point out to new owners the fine print of their warranty and their obligation to keep it from being voided by lack of proper maintenance. ALL rv warranties are basically the same and most use the same components.

To my knowledge ... At the time you purchased your Dutchman trailer and while the warranty was valid, Keystone had no connection to Dutchman other than being controlled by the same parent company. When Thor saw the problems Dutchman was having they recruited Keystone management to correct the problems instead of closing the doors and leaving your trailer an orphan as many other models have become. That to me shows good faith to honor valid warranty issues. As useless as they may be, owners manuals clearly state the responsibilities of owners for maintenance of seams and caulking and frequent inspections to prevent extensive damage. I am sure that your dealer would have been more than glad to perform these inspections as frequently as you liked for a fee. That unfortunately would be the only way to limit your liability under the warranty but would not extend the warranty past the 12mo. contract. Just like in your car where you are responsible to put air in tires and change engine oil etc. you are responsible for maintaining caulking on a RV.

Climbing down now and again JM2¢, Hank

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by FlaTraveler

Actually, I listed Keystone as they are the subsequent and current owner of Dutchmen (or manager as I know some like to parse sentences).
Thor is listed as the corporate parent, and I have not hit others as of yet. Got to start somewhere.
Disclaimers are useless. Anyone can lie online and many do.
Class action suits do have a purpose. If they can stop defective or dangerous manufacturing, they have achieved their goal.
IS your current camper going to be your last? What if we stop the manufacturer's from using this product in the future? That is a future benefit to you. Possibly forcing a change in products to one that lasts the entire life expectancy of our units, instead of only its infancy?
However from replies I have seen from JRTJH, nothing is to anyone's benefit. He is definitely shilling for the industry instead of supporting others who are experiencing issues.
As for silence, I am not retired. I have a full time job as well as consulting work. I am not able to be online nonstop to belittle any and all posters with an issue. That also means that if I spend $20k $30k or $100k+ on a unit that I don't have time to reseal every caulked point 30-60 days, which is unreasonable.
So forgive me for wanting to look into an action that might benefit people.
I forgot most want to blame others or criticize instead of being proactive.

This thread has gone far enough. If you open the FAQ tab in the top blue bar and read rule #2, you will see that it prohibits repeated negative comments, trashing, or "attacks" on products, manufacturers, or organizations. Posts concerning problems or issues with products, manufacturers or organizations are acceptable and appropriate. (This does not include seeking legal action as a group).
Now to "debunk" some of your negative allegations:

1. Keystone does not own/manage Dutchman. It appears from easily obtained internet data that the General Manager (GM) of Dutchman "has moved on to other things" (direct quote). In the corporate world, this usually means he did something the board of directors didn't like and he was fired. THOR reorganized their corporate structure created a new position and appointed the GM of Keystone to oversee both companies. They moved the Keystone VP to GM of Dutchman and are seeking a new GM for Keystone. If you read the multiple comments from THOR located with a simple internet search, you'll see that they repeatedly reassure the public and their dealer network that Dutchman will remain SEPARATE from and INDEPENDANT of Keystone. http://www.rvbusiness.com/2013/09/du...-amid-changes/

You can also go to this website to get a little "insight" into Dutchman RV management changes. They all indicate that Dutchman is and will remain separate from Keystone. http://www.rvbusiness.com/tag/dutchm...facturing-inc/

2. You say "I have not hit others yet, got to start somewhere". Buddy, start at home with your own camper forum.

3. You say, "Disclaimers are useless, anyone can lie" What about you? Is there any validity to your comments?

4. The primary purpose of a class action suit is not to stop a dangerous manufacturing process; it's to get money for the people bringing the suit. To add to #3, what's to say you're not an attorney at a legal firm seeking to "drum up business" ?

5. Your "attack" on my (JRTJH) as a "shill for the industry" is inappropriate and a "damned lie". It's your opinion, and we'll deal with that independently from this post. I am a realist; I seek to help as many people as I can with issues concerning their RV. I don't, however, try to put "pie in the sky" thoughts in their head about fighting a major corporation like Keystone (or THOR) to get pennies on the dollar in "retribution" because the owner failed to notice a little blurb in the "useless" owner's manual. Let's face it, some of us buy a $40K RV from a dealer by "talking him down" to $28K, use it for 2-3 years, well past the warranty, with little or no preventative maintenance, not following the advice in the owner's manual, and expect the company to "buy into" ownership of all problems that might come up. Maybe if we all, collectively as a group, paid the entire MSRP for our RV's, Keystone would extend the warranty to a "lifetime of the original owner" type of warranty, but as it is, they are in the business to make money, not repair "improperly maintained RV's" well after they warranty. The bottom line is that any owner of an RV that's 3+ years old and has water damage is responsible for his RV and its repairs (except for unusual and individual circumstances). I don't "Shill for the industry" and I resent your remark.

6. The fact that you're not retired, don't have time to reseal every caulked point every 30-60 days does not absolve you of the requirement to maintain your RV. It's still your responsibility. To use the excuse that "you're too busy working" to have time to maintain your RV just won't keep the boat afloat. Hire your dealer, an independent RV repair service or a competent friend to do the work if you don't have time.

7. You end with these comments: "So forgive me for wanting to look into an action that might benefit people.
I forgot most want to blame others or criticize instead of being proactive." I'd have to say that rather than looking into action that might benefit people, you're seeking to get your RV repaired and get a little bit of green on the side. As for your last allegation, it seems that you're blaming Keystone for an issue you say is a result of Dutchman's manufacturing and you're criticizing anyone/anything that's in your way as you "try to be proactive" against Keystone. I'd urge you to join the Dutchman Owner's Forum at http://www.dutchmenowners.org/forums/. It's a great place for Dutchman owners to get information about their RV and find "common ground" with others who own the same brand. Try it, you might just like it.