Tongue Weight

[chuckster57]

I would suspect the odds are SLIM to nil, that would be a 5-7 year old trailer and I have found people rarely keep them that long. good luck!!

[notanlines]

Quad, I realize that your feelings have been, if not hurt, at least bruised a little. Only Tacoma owners view their pickups as full sized. They simply are a mini-truck, just like a Ranger, Colorado, Canyon, Dakota, the 700 and the Ridgeline, Frontier, and of course the new Maverick. You knew that when you settled for it over a full size truck.
I feel the same way when we talk about a new Freightliner hauler M-2. When I talk to drivers with an M-2 I pretend it doesn’t matter.. I think a famous actor once said “Man’s gotta know his limitations.”

[flybouy]

"[I just want someone to provide me with an ACCURATE (100%) Trailer Weight and Tongue Weight of a 2014 - 2016 Passport 199ML. The weights must be with no batteries and no propane tanks or with two full propane tanks (what size used), Batteries (what size, how many). State if weights are with Manual or Electric Tongue Jack.]

Good luck finding an answer to such a specific request.

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=BCBorn;473954]Thanks for the feedback. I thought I posted this, but not showing up.

For me it's determining an ACCURATE UVW of a 2014 - 2016 Passport 199ML with full tanks (preferably 30lb tanks), Power Tongue Jack and Dual 6 Volt Batteries. As you said I can shed some weight and move to Lithium and will do if need be. If I have to stay with 20 lb tanks, not an issue, just have to fill more often.

A 2014 - 2016 Passport 199ML is said to have a a UVW of 3571 (No Battery, Two Empty 20lb Propane, Manual Jack). If this weight is accurate, (many say it is not) factory reports the tongue weight to be 335 lbs (9 - 10%). In my case 1000 - 319 - 335 = 346 lbs for additional tongue weight over the factory reported tongue weight. I might end up being over 100 - 200 lbs Payload, most Tacoma owners probably are, but if hooked properly their will be no showing red flags.

My truck full of gas, myself, wife, dog and canopy take up 319 lbs of payload. If the numbers above are correct, that leaves me with 681 lbs for tongue weight (batteries, propane, cargo, actual tongue weight UVW (that impacts tongue weight).

With my old Kodiak I had to put heavy items at rear of trailer to offset tongue weight (generator, BBQ, Camp Fire, Tote of Propane Hoses, bikes on rear trailer hitch. To also keep tongue weight low additional gear that had weight was placed over trailer axle. The lighter stuff went into the pass-thru some in the truck in-front of the rear axles.

Pulling up the equalizer bars a notch transferred some of the weight from the rear axle to reduce it slightly and it increased front axle weight near unloaded reading. I was never over on the GVWR or GAWR for either axle.

It is my understanding tongue weight should never be less than 10%. Heavier tongue weights increase rear GAWR and lessen front GAWR. To reduce rear GAWR and Increase front GAWR one can increase the tension on the equalizer bars. You would never want to exceed the rated GAWR on either front or rear axles, nor would you want to reduce the GAWR on either front or rear axles below the unloaded readings. Would bet every unit going down the road with the headlights pointing to the sky and the rear bumper touching the ground is not in compliance.



I just want someone to provide me with an ACCURATE (100%) Trailer Weight and Tongue Weight of a 2014 - 2016 Passport 199ML. The weights must be with no batteries and no propane tanks or with two full propane tanks (what size used), Batteries (what size, how many). State if weights are with Manual or Electric Tongue Jack.



I have seen many owners of Toyota Tacoma pickups towing Passports, where are you in the crowd. It is fiscally responsible to know your weights, not buy the biggest truck you can find and take the trailer GVW of 5200 x 13% = 676 lbs tongue weight and assume your good to go.[/QUOTE]



It seems you're looking for that beautiful winged unicorn that lays golden eggs. You are also confused on some things it seems.

Since you are trying to cut his thing to within a pound or two (impossible, ill advised and dangerous) you might note the bolded section above. Then note my edit statement in post 6 - per your scaled weight you have 981 lbs. of payload. You just lost 19 lbs. As was also mentioned, you have never considered, or at least mentioned in this discussion, the 100-120lbs. for a good weight distribution hitch. If you are planning on doing this without one to stay under your weight limit.....don't.

Another thing I'm wondering if you might be thinking is that the wdh is going to give you MORE payload because it redistributes weight....it DOES NOT. The tongue weight is the tongue weight and comes directly off the payload. From etrailer (or any other source you want to look into):

"Weight distribution works to distribute the tongue weight of a trailer up to the front axle of the tow vehicle so that it will sit more level and handle/brake better. That being said the systems do not "reduce" tongue weight or allow you to tow beyond the capacities of the vehicle."

You want the proper weight distribution from the bars but it doesn't do anything to "relieve/remove" the load placed by the tongue.

As far as most towing with Tacomas being overweight, I would agree. Others towing overweight? Lord knows there are too many. But the question is why a person would knowingly buy into a combination that is ill paired? Trying to move things around so no one sees red flags is a waste of time IMO. Moving things around, as it sounds like you do, to achieve good weight distribution is a sound practice. Now, if you intend to strap your generator, bbq, campfire, totes and bikes on the back of that Passport.....well, add another 500lbs. for welding in new frame and bumper supports.

The last bolded section isn't correct. No one advocates buying the "biggest truck you can find".....unless you need it. What is being said is that you need to have a tow vehicle capable of handling (carrying) the load of any prospective trailer and then controlling it. Trying to cut corners and max out all weight limitations is just asking for trouble.

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by sourdough

You ever sat in the driver's seat of a Taco then say a Ram CC? Taco feels "mini" to me.

fair nuff, but sit in the seat of a dodge 'rampage' then climb in a taco. or sit in a ram cc and climb into a mack CH500 elite...its all relative.

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by BCBorn

Thanks for the feedback. I thought I posted this, but not showing up.

For me it's determining an ACCURATE UVW of a 2014 - 2016 Passport 199ML with full tanks (preferably 30lb tanks), Power Tongue Jack and Dual 6 Volt Batteries. As you said I can shed some weight and move to Lithium and will do if need be. If I have to stay with 20 lb tanks, not an issue, just have to fill more often.

A 2014 - 2016 Passport 199ML is said to have a a UVW of 3571 (No Battery, Two Empty 20lb Propane, Manual Jack). If this weight is accurate, (many say it is not) factory reports the tongue weight to be 335 lbs (9 - 10%). In my case 1000 - 319 - 335 = 346 lbs for additional tongue weight over the factory reported tongue weight. I might end up being over 100 - 200 lbs Payload, most Tacoma owners probably are, but if hooked properly their will be no showing red flags.

My truck full of gas, myself, wife, dog and canopy take up 319 lbs of payload. If the numbers above are correct, that leaves me with 681 lbs for tongue weight (batteries, propane, cargo, actual tongue weight UVW (that impacts tongue weight).

With my old Kodiak I had to put heavy items at rear of trailer to offset tongue weight (generator, BBQ, Camp Fire, Tote of Propane Hoses, bikes on rear trailer hitch. To also keep tongue weight low additional gear that had weight was placed over trailer axle. The lighter stuff went into the pass-thru some in the truck in-front of the rear axles.

Pulling up the equalizer bars a notch transferred some of the weight from the rear axle to reduce it slightly and it increased front axle weight near unloaded reading. I was never over on the GVWR or GAWR for either axle.

It is my understanding tongue weight should never be less than 10%. Heavier tongue weights increase rear GAWR and lessen front GAWR. To reduce rear GAWR and Increase front GAWR one can increase the tension on the equalizer bars. You would never want to exceed the rated GAWR on either front or rear axles, nor would you want to reduce the GAWR on either front or rear axles below the unloaded readings. Would bet every unit going down the road with the headlights pointing to the sky and the rear bumper touching the ground is not in compliance.



I just want someone to provide me with an ACCURATE (100%) Trailer Weight and Tongue Weight of a 2014 - 2016 Passport 199ML. The weights must be with no batteries and no propane tanks or with two full propane tanks (what size used), Batteries (what size, how many). State if weights are with Manual or Electric Tongue Jack.



I have seen many owners of Toyota Tacoma pickups towing Passports, where are you in the crowd. It is fiscally responsible to know your weights, not buy the biggest truck you can find and take the trailer GVW of 5200 x 13% = 676 lbs tongue weight and assume your good to go.

\
but, the part never considered is that TW of a trailer on a scale is *different* than TX of it hooked up with WD done right.


we call it the 1/3 rule...1/3 of the 'sitting there all by itself' is moved back to the axles. 2/3 remain on the truck, but up to 1/3 goes to the front axle. Hence the name 'weight distributing'


If your example, IIRC you put about 20lbs on the front axle with the WD hitch hooked up. I betcha you didnt put ANY backwards. what kind of WD hitch do you have in order to give you the correct procedure

[quaddriver]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Quad, I realize that your feelings have been, if not hurt, at least bruised a little. Only Tacoma owners view their pickups as full sized. They simply are a mini-truck, just like a Ranger, Colorado, Canyon, Dakota, the 700 and the Ridgeline, Frontier, and of course the new Maverick. You knew that when you settled for it over a full size truck.
I feel the same way when we talk about a new Freightliner hauler M-2. When I talk to drivers with an M-2 I pretend it doesn’t matter.. I think a famous actor once said “Man’s gotta know his limitations.”

I dont know what your first sentence is on about, but there is nothing 'mini' about a 6800lb capable taco. No one else on the planet would think of saying that. The VW rabbit pickup? mini. dodge ramapge? mini


Old nissan hardbody? mini. chevy luv? mini. ford courier? mini.


The taco this person is owning is just as capable if not exceeding, tow values for certain packages of *every* full size truck made previously.


Im gonna coin a new term 'Tow Karens'


Bottom line, if the loaded weight is below the listed tow max by toyota, then it can be made to work by at most moving a few things. AND, toyota will warrant it.

[travelin texans]

Not sure why you are so adamant to find the UVW without propane, batteries or power tongue jack that tell you nothing about towing this particular rv that means ABSOLUTELY nothing.
The advertised tongue weight, the advertised tow rating or most any number you'll find on websites, not to mention any of those weights that ANYONE else may have, are ABSOLUTELY useless to YOU!
You have been given excellent advice by several on here for calculating real world rv weights, most all of which have proven beyond a doubt that your Taco truck is NOT up to the task you're trying to place on it.
If you chose to use all of these useless numbers & hitch up this particular rv to that mini truck, that WILL be severely overloaded, then know that YOU & your insurance company can/will be financial responsibile in the event of accident as the 1st numbers that will be confirmed are your weights by law enforcement & lawyers.
From what you've posted you've made your mind up that the Taco truck is capable of handling this rv if you skew the numbers enough, so I'll just wish you GOOD LUCK SAFE TRAVELS!

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by quaddriver

\
but, the part never considered is that TW of a trailer on a scale is *different* than TX of it hooked up with WD done right.
we call it the 1/3 rule...1/3 of the 'sitting there all by itself' is moved back to the axles. 2/3 remain on the truck, but up to 1/3 goes to the front axle. Hence the name 'weight distributing'

Most people who come here with a TV mismatch problem are just flat-out over payload for their TV. It doesn't matter how you "distribute" "over payload" -- you'll still be over payload.

It's possible to have a combo that is within payload but exceeds the rear axle spec, and that's the only situation where WD makes a difference (besides steering driveability and other non-weight issues). But it's a second-order effect, and we see it here much more rarely.

[BCBorn]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Not sure why you are so adamant to find the UVW without propane, batteries or power tongue jack that tell you nothing about towing this particular rv that means ABSOLUTELY nothing.
The advertised tongue weight, the advertised tow rating or most any number you'll find on websites, not to mention any of those weights that ANYONE else may have, are ABSOLUTELY useless to YOU!
You have been given excellent advice by several on here for calculating real world rv weights, most all of which have proven beyond a doubt that your Taco truck is NOT up to the task you're trying to place on it.
If you chose to use all of these useless numbers & hitch up this particular rv to that mini truck, that WILL be severely overloaded, then know that YOU & your insurance company can/will be financial responsibile in the event of accident as the 1st numbers that will be confirmed are your weights by law enforcement & lawyers.
From what you've posted you've made your mind up that the Taco truck is capable of handling this rv if you skew the numbers enough, so I'll just wish you GOOD LUCK SAFE TRAVELS!

Reason for the unloaded weights is I know exactly what each of the new additions weigh. Matter of fact I know the exact weight of every piece of cargo loaded into the trailer as I weighed each and every thing. If the factory reported weights are total bull, then lets find out what the real UVW is.

Yes, I won't find someone with the exact loaded weight but the UVW for everyone with a 2014 - 2016 Passport should be relatively the same. This will give me an idea how much the factory UVW is inaccurate. Options will be the only thing that alters readings. From this I will get a baseline average of an gear empty trailer. Why does everyone not know this before pulling there trailer off the lot.

My Truck Specs are as follows (decal inside driver door)

GVWR 5611 lbs
Front Axle GAWR 2910 Lbs
Rear Axle GAWR 3285
Payload 1000 lbs
GCWR 11,270

Trailer GVWR 4700 lbs (sticker on trailer)

Here are my numbers again with my Dutchman 20 - 5" Tandum Axle hooked up no water, no cargo. Dual 6 volt batteries, Full Dual 30 lb Propane Tanks, Electric Tongue Jack.

What does the following CAT Scale weights tell you, I'm not over payload or GAWR would be over the allowable (above)? Matter of fact I'm under in every area and still have room for gear. How I place that gear and adjust the E2 Equalizer bars will effect all those numbers again.

Axle 1 2579 lbs
Axle 2 3042 lbs
Axle 3 4145 lbs

3 Axle Total 9766 lbs GCWR

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by BCBorn

Reason for the unloaded weights is I know exactly what each of the new additions weigh. Matter of fact I know the exact weight of every piece of cargo loaded into the trailer as I weighed each and every thing. If the factory reported weights are total bull, then lets find out what the real UVW is.

Yes, I won't find someone with the exact loaded weight but the UVW for everyone with a 2014 - 2016 Passport should be relatively the same. This will give me an idea how much the factory UVW is inaccurate. Options will be the only thing that alters readings. From this I will get a baseline average of an gear empty trailer. Why does everyone not know this before pulling there trailer off the lot.

My Truck Specs are as follows (decal inside driver door)

GVWR 5611 lbs
Front Axle GAWR 2910 Lbs
Rear Axle GAWR 3285
Payload 1000 lbs
GCWR 11,270

Trailer GVWR 4700 lbs (sticker on trailer)

Here are my numbers again with my Dutchman 20 - 5" Tandum Axle hooked up no water, no cargo. Dual 6 volt batteries, Full Dual 30 lb Propane Tanks, Electric Tongue Jack.

What does the following CAT Scale weights tell you, I'm not over payload or GAWR would be over the allowable (above)? Matter of fact I'm under in every area and still have room for gear. How I place that gear and adjust the E2 Equalizer bars will effect all those numbers again.

Axle 1 2579 lbs
Axle 2 3042 lbs
Axle 3 4145 lbs

3 Axle Total 9766 lbs GCWR

The GVWR of your Taco is 5611 as you posted, the scaled weight of axles 1 & 2 you posted is 5621 meaning as scaled you're already 10lbs over the trucks GVWR. Was the rv loaded to head out with everyone/everything in the truck when it was weighed, if not that 10lbs will only be a start. Also a weight of the rv alone would be beneficial.
Also on most RVs there's not available space to shuffle any significant amount of weight inside to make any appreciable difference.
Not really sure how your WDH was able to lighten the front & rear axles by a couple hundred pounds.
Hopefully others will double check my math.

[JDDilly]

These discussions always amaze me. People ask about their weights, don't get confirmation that what they have is a good combination, so they try and justify they are okay.

I do not see how this TV has the limits for this trailer, no matter how you skew the numbers or move gear around.

[BCBorn]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

The GVWR of your Taco is 5611 as you posted, the scaled weight of axles 1 & 2 you posted is 5621 meaning as scaled you're already 10lbs over the trucks GVWR. Was the rv loaded to head out with everyone/everything in the truck when it was weighed, if not that 10lbs will only be a start. Also a weight of the rv alone would be beneficial.
Also on most RVs there's not available space to shuffle any significant amount of weight inside to make any appreciable difference.
Not really sure how your WDH was able to lighten the front & rear axles by a couple hundred pounds.
Hopefully others will double check my math.

I have a document from the the scale staff and it says Front and Rear GAWR's added together will always be greater than the GVWR. but you cannot exceed any of the three ratings (Axle 1, 2, 3) which I'm not.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by BCBorn

I have a document from the the scale staff and it says Front and Rear GAWR's added together will always be greater than the GVWR. but you cannot exceed any of the three ratings (Axle 1, 2, 3) which I'm not.

So are you saying it's ok then to exceed the GVWR? I think this is an exercise in futility. Your mind was made up before your first post.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by BCBorn

I have a document from the the scale staff and it says Front and Rear GAWR's added together will always be greater than the GVWR. but you cannot exceed any of the three ratings (Axle 1, 2, 3) which I'm not.

I don't think you have any understanding of towing weights. Your posted, scaled weights show you are over gvw; gvwr of truck = 5611; scaled weight of your truck (per your post) = 5621lbs. Not loaded, not traveling and 10lbs. OVER gvw before you start.

GAWRs are rated higher than the sum total of the gvwr.....to keep a person from dropping the underside of their vehicle on the highway at 70mph because they ignored all other weight limitations - safety. What you have completely ignored is the max payload for the vehicle. The payload is THE number when you subtract the weight of the truck - 5621lbs. from the gvwr of the truck = (-10lbs = overloaded). You AREN'T under your numbers - only confused ... or the provided data is inaccurate.

[BCBorn]

Originally Posted by markcee

So are you saying it's ok then to exceed the GVWR? I think this is an exercise in futility. Your mind was made up before your first post.

NO you can not exceed any of the three numbers for the vehicle.

GVWR
Front GAWR
Rear GAWR

The manual given to me by the Government Scale operator says you are not supposed to add the two axle weights together and compare then against the GVWR rating.

My understanding is, the GVWR comes into play when you take unloaded vehicle Axle1 and Axle 2, add them together and subtract that from GVWR to get the Payload.

No decal states the payload allowed. Your numbers make sense but why they say not to add the two together boggles my mind.

[jasin1]

What year Tacoma? The posted specs on your truck was for when it was new..maybe yours is a newer model..Toyota was replacing the entire frame under a recall on a thousands of Tacoma’s because they were rusting in half….and the book your quoting probably says you can’t add the two gawr ratings together to give you a higher gvwr ..if your gvwr is 5000 lbs for example and your axle gawr for front is 2500 and rear is 3500 ..that means your gvwr is still 5000 ..you can’t add the 2500 and 3500 and get 6000…. If you add what you posted weight of your front gawr and your rear gawr you already exceeded your gvwr…That is what matters.. your reading the provided literature wrong..like Danny posted the axle ratings are higher for a safety margin

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by BCBorn

NO you can not exceed any of the three numbers for the vehicle.

GVWR
Front GAWR
Rear GAWR

The manual given to me by the Government Scale operator says you are not supposed to add the two axle weights together and compare then against the GVWR rating.

My understanding is, the GVWR comes into play when the complete vehicle is weighed (all 4 wheels on scale) and the reported weight is compared to Max GVWR

You did exceed one of the three by 10 lbs already

[BCBorn]

Originally Posted by jasin1

You did exceed one of the three by 10 lbs already

Where do you see that?

Truck Sticker

GVWR 5611 lbs
Axle 1 GAWR 2910 Lbs
Axle 2 GAWR 3285
Payload 1000 lbs
GCWR 11,270

Trailer GVWR 4700 lbs (sticker on trailer)

Cat Scale

Axle 1 2579 lbs 2910 Allowed
Axle 2 3042 lbs 3285 Allowed

Axle 3 4145 lbs

4700lbs Trailer GVW Allowed

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by BCBorn

Where do you see that?

Truck Sticker

GVWR 5611 lbs
Axle 1 GAWR 2910 Lbs
Axle 2 GAWR 3285
Payload 1000 lbs
GCWR 11,270

Trailer GVWR 4700 lbs (sticker on trailer)

Cat Scale

Axle 1 2579 lbs 2910 Allowed
Axle 2 3042 lbs 3285 Allowed

Axle 3 4145 lbs

4700lbs Trailer GVW Allowed

2579 +3042 = 5621

You stated your trucks gvwr is 5611…. You do add the ACTUAL weights of axle 1 and 2

What you can’t do is add the two axle RATINGS to get a higher gvwr