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Old 09-22-2019, 07:13 PM   #21
chuckster57
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That does have the laminated rear wall. I think we have sold a few and they have come in with very few issues.
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Old 09-22-2019, 07:46 PM   #22
Hitsman3
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Is the laminated wall better than the hung or they pretty equal? Few other questions, I see the Grand Design floor is made of marine grade osb or plywood, I don’t think the Cougar is? Does that matter? Also the Grand Design has a 12 year roof warranty and the Cougar has a 3 year, should that make a difference in our decision?
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Old 09-22-2019, 07:59 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Hitsman3 View Post
Is the laminated wall better than the hung or they pretty equal? Few other questions, I see the Grand Design floor is made of marine grade osb or plywood, I don’t think the Cougar is? Does that matter? Also the Grand Design has a 12 year roof warranty and the Cougar has a 3 year, should that make a difference in our decision?

Floor? I personally don’t think that should be a deciding factor

Rear wall? Again I wouldn’t base my decision on it

Roof warranty- I bet the 12 yrs is on the membrane, and the cougar roof is likely 10 or 12 years on the membrane. Both will probably require routine maintenance after 90 days to prevent leaks. In the end your decision should be based on what YOU think of the overall quality and floor plan. You should if possible, sit in both and imagine watching TV in rainy weather. Cooking and cleaning dishes. We spent 3 years and sat in hundreds of different trailers before we bought.

Would I buy another Keystone product? Yes but since I work at a dealership that sells Grand Designs and I can get an employees discount...
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Old 09-26-2019, 08:18 AM   #24
philiprmcgovern
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OK, I gotta weigh in here. I’m no expert but, we’ve spent the last four winters in warm places in our Keystone Montana High Country and have had muchas problemas with it. Almost every trip, it was something new breaking or falling off. For a lot of it, I was able to do a redneck repair with duct tape and bailing wire, but twice we had to use “remote” repair techs to do major repairs on two of our three slide outs in two different states. Since they were very experienced with all brands and are not affiliated with a dealer, I asked them both which brand offers the best quality and the fewest problems and both of them, without hesitating. said “Grand Design”. Several GD owners told us they had few, if any, problems with theirs and that the factory was always super helpful in making things right. We toured the GD factory a couple of weeks ago and were very impressed with their build quality and post-sale customer support. Based on all this, we ordered a new GD and, fortunately for us, the dealer gave us a trade-in allowance without even looking at the old Montana. We have also spent a lot of time on the owners forums for both brands reviewing what the owners have to say and the GD owners are a LOT happier than their Keystone counterparts. Keep up your research and make your own decision, but I’m sure you would be much better off by going with Grand Design. Regardless, good luck and happy trails!
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Old 09-26-2019, 01:58 PM   #25
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Floor plan, floor plan, floor plan should be the top priority for anyone seeking their first RV. Determine the floor plan then search on competing models.

Secondly, customer service isn't necessarily driven by the manufacturer; it's "dealer-centric". A dealer will have more influence on the success of your purchase "post-sale" than just buying a coach based purely on "reputation". The selling dealership can be an owners advocate when 'sh$t' hits the fan during the warranty period. Even after the warranty has ended, a good dealer can makes amends to problems that may arise, to continue a positive future relationship.

Finally, when it comes to first time trailer owners, perceptions and wants change after taking delivery for many reasons. It may be that the owners have imagined sometime completely different about RVing prior to their purchase. OR, it may be that life events don't allow for enough RV vacation days. OR, it may simply be the owners have found a more suitable coach for their liking. Whatever the case, IMO, going "all-in" with a top dollar unit from a top dollar manufacturer on one's first RV purchase is not best practice as there is a good change that in 1, 2, or 3 years, change will happen. As little as most people use their trailers and as fast as they depreciate after leaving the dealer lots, I think it's a good decision to minimize RV expenses until one find's their RV groove. That's what we did with our Bullet as we didn't know what to expect 4 years ago. In a few years, we may upgrade to something else as we now know what we like out of a vacation coach. But to be all honest, I'm happy to have started with a budget-valued Bullet.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitsman3 View Post
The wife & i are looking at getting our first Travel Trailer. At the moment we have it narrowed down to a 2020 Cougar Half Ton 22RBSWE & a 2020 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE. What are people's thoughts on these as far as quality, is one better that the other? Who has better customer service in your opinion?
I traded my 2017 30RLI Cougar for a Grand Design product, a Solitude, and I have friends with Imagine TT along with Reflection. We have been with our Solitude for 6 months and about 5000 miles.
When we were considering which RV to buy we toured the Montana High Country (similar to the Reflection), Jayco, and gave the benefit of the doubt to Cougar.
After a lot of comparison shopping we opted for the Solitude.
Our friends with the Imagines are very happy with their RVs.
It would be difficult to compare quality and features between my former Cougar, a mid-range TT to the Solitude.
However, keep in mind that most of the towable manufacturers use the same processes to assemble these rigs.
That said, now that I own a Grand Design product there is no going back to a Keystone product (sorry Keystone owners). I have found the need to contact Grand Design customer assistance and they are very, very good to work with.
I'm not bashing the Keystone line, but, as a former owner I found many faults in the design of my Cougar and noticed the same poor design in the (gasp) Montana line.
My advice? Go with the Imagine.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by philiprmcgovern View Post
OK, I gotta weigh in here. I’m no expert but, we’ve spent the last four winters in warm places in our Keystone Montana High Country and have had muchas problemas with it. Almost every trip, it was something new breaking or falling off. For a lot of it, I was able to do a redneck repair with duct tape and bailing wire, but twice we had to use “remote” repair techs to do major repairs on two of our three slide outs in two different states. Since they were very experienced with all brands and are not affiliated with a dealer, I asked them both which brand offers the best quality and the fewest problems and both of them, without hesitating. said “Grand Design”. Several GD owners told us they had few, if any, problems with theirs and that the factory was always super helpful in making things right. We toured the GD factory a couple of weeks ago and were very impressed with their build quality and post-sale customer support. Based on all this, we ordered a new GD and, fortunately for us, the dealer gave us a trade-in allowance without even looking at the old Montana. We have also spent a lot of time on the owners forums for both brands reviewing what the owners have to say and the GD owners are a LOT happier than their Keystone counterparts. Keep up your research and make your own decision, but I’m sure you would be much better off by going with Grand Design. Regardless, good luck and happy trails!
GDs service after the sale is very good. I have contacted them a couple of times over issues that I can fix.
Lastly, GD has owner rallies around the nation, and one will be in Canada next summer in which GD technicians will keep the owners happy with minor repairs and adjustments.
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:45 PM   #28
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What a fallacy to think GD doesn't have quality control issues too...

https://youtu.be/mEUmZ4-z1Bg
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Old 09-26-2019, 05:31 PM   #29
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We owned a 2015 21rbswe and a 2017 21rbswe, exact same RV, they just changed the model number in 2018. We absolutely have loved our's, the storage is over the top, King bed is what made us go from 15 to 17. There are virtually none that have king beds and they are not a real king, so from a Queen to King is so nice. Plus, we really like that they put the closets up high, so you can open without knocking off everything and makes sleeping area seem bigger. This model is almost impossible to find new as people seem to keep them! Plus the water storage is awesome, 76 gray, 60 water and 38 black... we can go out for a long time!
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Old 09-26-2019, 07:21 PM   #30
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Great advise from the forum. All I want to say is I love my 2018 21RBSWE. It is essentially the same trailer. The big four for my wife and I were: big fridge, big shower, big dinette, and big bed. Been on long and short pulls and am always happy.Good luck choosing what is best for you.

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Old 09-26-2019, 07:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by tanglemoose View Post
We owned a 2015 21rbswe and a 2017 21rbswe, exact same RV, they just changed the model number in 2018. We absolutely have loved our's, the storage is over the top, King bed is what made us go from 15 to 17. There are virtually none that have king beds and they are not a real king, so from a Queen to King is so nice. Plus, we really like that they put the closets up high, so you can open without knocking off everything and makes sleeping area seem bigger. This model is almost impossible to find new as people seem to keep them! Plus the water storage is awesome, 76 gray, 60 water and 38 black... we can go out for a long time!
Amen to that. Add big capacities. You can be out for long periods. Makes dry camping more pleasant. always can add more water before hitting the dump station.
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Old 09-27-2019, 05:19 AM   #32
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I'd recommend you look at a used trailer for your first trailer....and make sure your pull vehicle will work for you.
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:29 AM   #33
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I agree with what folks have been telling you, especially the floor-plan bit.

When we decided to get back into camping the DW and I made a list of things we thought were important for our new trailer to have and after that I googled some of the list.

We ended up with a Bullet Premier 22RBPR which seems to have most of the features of the 21rbswe and then some.

I like the fact that there are pocket doors between the bedroom and living area and the DW had outdoor kitchen on the top of her list.

It has turned out to be perfect for the 2 of us and our 14 month old Lab.

We have put over 13,000 miles on it so far and the only issues have been minor, that I corrected myself, it has never been back for any warranty work.

Good luck with whatever you choose, I am sure you will find mods others have done on here that you will like, keep us posted.

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Old 09-28-2019, 02:59 PM   #34
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Here is my 2 cents worth. Having down sized from 2 Big Rig diesel motorhomes for the past 14 yrs and travelled 147,000 miles. We purchased a 2019 Cougar Half Ton 22RBS in May. It has furnishings that our Moho had. King bed, theater seating recliners, well appointed kitchen and bath room, and a 50" TV. This model also has electric front and rear stabilizers and a Cougar emblem large window in the front cap. We traveled 6200 miles this summer without a problem.

Whatever brand you choose be sure to buy a quality sway control. We bought a Husky.

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Old 09-28-2019, 03:43 PM   #35
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Here is my 2 cents worth. Having down sized from 2 Big Rig diesel motorhomes for the past 14 yrs and travelled 147,000 miles. We purchased a 2019 Cougar Half Ton 22RBS in May. It has furnishings that our Moho had. King bed, theater seating recliners, well appointed kitchen and bath room, and a 50" TV. This model also has electric front and rear stabilizers and a Cougar emblem large window in the front cap. We traveled 6200 miles this summer without a problem.

Whatever brand you choose be sure to buy a quality sway control. We bought a Husky.

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We parked our 39'4" 5th Wheel in the NW as a summer home and bought a Laredo 225MK with a similar floor plan. Our 2019 has a queen and the 2020s have a king bed, but much small wardrobes. We use the outdoor kitchen refer for beer, pop and white wine. Like the theater seats, and hate booths. Like size of shower, however not the quality of that item. 8K GVWR trailer that came with solid surface counters, electric stabilizers and tongue jack, 4400 lb axles, wet bolts, Road Armor equalizers, 15" tires and wheels, lots of storage and 50amp service.

We are currently commuting to Arizona in it for the winter. It goes in storage and we have a park model with Arizona room.
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Old 09-28-2019, 05:23 PM   #36
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What a fallacy to think GD doesn't have quality control issues too...

https://youtu.be/mEUmZ4-z1Bg

ALL makers have issues, but as a tech that works at a dealership that sells the Grand Designs line of trailers, I can personally attest to the LOW Percentage of issues. I’m not here to “defend” GD or trash any other brand, but I can say with complete confidence that the video you linked to is the exception to the rule. I could post videos of $450,000.00 motorhomes with major flaws, but again ONE bad apple doesn’t ruin the whole basket.

I originally posted that floor plan is probably the most important factor along with build quality. A $10,000 trailer is going to have the same stuff as a $45,000 trailer, it just won’t have as many brads, and screws. And the brad holes may not be putty filled. Buyers have to decide what they are willing to accept and pay accordingly. Kind of like buying a pinto and expecting it to be as nice as a Lincoln town car...Ain’t happening!!

Rant off...
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Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

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