HELP!! No Heat/Propane Not Working

Tom and Kelley Crawford · 04-01-2011, 03:13 PM

We are camping in 35 degree weather and can't get our propane to work. Everytime we try to start the stove or turn on the propane heat, the tanks go from green to red. We thought they were both empty so we had them both filled this morning and they said one was 1/3 full. Still not working so everyone at the campground said it was our regulator. Drove 20 miles and bought a new regulator and the same thing is happening. Sometimes the gas tanks show green and then when we try to light the stove, they turn to red. Sometimes both tanks are showing red (empty). Any ideas what the problem could be ??????sp

Handysam · 04-01-2011, 03:33 PM

Tom did they work before? Did you try just one tank at a a time? Seems like there might be a kink in the main line. Or because its late I think I would find a Wally World and get a electric heater for the night. Sam

CRUZIN 2 · 04-01-2011, 03:46 PM

Does the cook stove work? If not, turn off both tank's and wait about 30 min. and turn one on (very slowly). That is what I would try, if the cook stove don't work.

chuck&gail · 04-01-2011, 04:28 PM

As said above, turn tanks off, wait at least 10 minutes (or 30 if you choose), make sure stove, water heater, and furnace are off, and turn on tanks very very very slowly. In an effort to protect us, so they claim, our government made everyone get new tanks with a "safety" feature which automatically turns OFF the propane if you turn it on too fast. Once tanks are on, try JUST lighting stove. Let burn for a minute or two, then try furnace. If it starts, then you are ok and can use everything normally.

Hope it works!

laidback · 04-01-2011, 04:30 PM

Tom, I had the same problem awhile back and I had to replace the hose from the regulator to the tank. It was colapsing on the inside and restricting the gas flow.

Tom and Kelley Crawford · 04-01-2011, 04:30 PM

It was working fine when we left Florida Wednesday morning but when we stopped that night the food in the freezer was starting to thaw. Hooked to elec that night and left Thursday am. Tried to turn the stove on Thursday evening and it would not light. Tried the heat and it would not work either. Too dark tonight Larry but will try your idea early tomorrow am. Both tanks are turned to off for the night. We do have a small heater so we won't freeze but it doesn't generate near enough heat to heat this big camper. Keep the ideas coming. We will be in this weather for 3 more nights!

Tom and Kelley Crawford · 04-02-2011, 04:06 AM

Well, we tried turning off both tanks, waited 30 minutes and then turned one tank on VERY slowly and still nothing. When you try to light the stove, you get a small amount of gas for a short time and it lights for a split second and then goes out immediately. Do we need to replace the hoses from the regulator to the tanks???? Any other ideas of what the problem could be??? We will try anything, bring on the suggestions!

laidback · 04-02-2011, 02:29 PM

Tom like I said in an earlier post that is exactly what was happening to me when I replaced the hoses from the tank to the regulator no more problem. CW replaced the reg which didn't work the hoses did it. When there is little demand the gas will pass thru when a demand is put on it the inside of the hose gets suck down and restricts the gas flow. Also knew some one else same problem same cure. Good luck and Happy trails.

Tom and Kelley Crawford · 04-03-2011, 04:23 AM

Laidback, that is our next step but don't have a CW near us so will have to wait until we get back to Florida to get new hoses. We haven't camped more than 15 days in this camper since we bought it new so it is hard for us to believe the hoses have gone bad already but stranger things have happended. It has warmed up here in N GA mountains so we have gotten by with a small elec heater, but still miss the stove. Will let you know if the hoses do the trick, sure hope so. Thanks for the help!

Bob Landry · 04-03-2011, 05:19 AM

Your problem description with the flag going to red on a full tank tells me you have a defective regulator. It's very unlikely to impossible that you have two tanks with bad OPD valves and two bad pigtails connectiong the regulator to the tanks. The common element is the regulator and the hose going from the regulator to the black pipe manifold(unlikely since that is a low pressure hose. The pigtail contains a check valve. That's what allows you to remove an empty tank for refilling while running on the other one.

I carry a spare regulator, pigtail an a roll of yellow thread tape in my parts box. Even if you only want to buy a single input two stage regulator, that would allow you to run off of one propane tank in an emergency and would save a camping trip. All you have to do is move the regulator output hose to the new regulator and attach the pigtail to the tank. Relative to the cost of fuel for the TV and CG fees, it's pretty cheap insurance.

**JRTJH** · 04-09-2011, 07:19 PM

The regulator would be my best guess also, just because you replaced it once doesn't mean you replaced it with a functional one. Another thought would be that possibly you have a tank with water in it. If you are in a very high humidity area and let your tank run completely out, then leave the valve open. there's a possibility that it might get moisture in it. Or your tanks may not have been purged properly when they were put in service.

If you're in freezing weather and there's some moisture in the tank, it'll freeze the regulator and shut off gas flow.

As for waiting until you get back to FL to get replacement hoses. They're much cheaper at any propane dealer than at an RV store. just take one off your regulator and show it to the dealer, he'll have a replacement in hand by the time you get your credit card out.

GOOD LUCK, being cold is not "happy camping"

hankaye · 04-20-2011, 04:33 PM

Tom and Kelley Crawford, Howdy;

Hopefully you are back home and warm now.

If you look at the pigtail hoses you will see that the manufacture date is imprinted into the rubber. The shelf-life of them is not that long in the "Grande Sceam of life in general. About 5 years I think (brain looking more like Swiss cheese ever'day).... Dosen't matter what year you bought the trailer, or the hoses. After the date of Manufacture the clock is ticking even on the spool in the back of the parts room...Just something else to remember to check on a somewhat regular scheduel......Dang list just keeps growing ...anyone got a chainsaw???

hankaye

Jim W · 04-21-2011, 04:17 AM

Tom and Kelly C.
Has your system been restored and working correctly now?
Please post an up-date and what was found to be the issue.

Last weekend my DW and I went camping in Northern IL., the week before we had 70F and 80F days. This last weekend we had snow/rain and 30's during the night with highs in the 40F's. Needless to say we ran the heat to keep warm.
We camped from Thursday to Sunday and on Saturday afternoon the heater stop. I thought we were out of propane. I knew that one bottle was empty from last season and we had a full bottle left over from last season. I thought one bottle would get us through the weekend and I would fill both bottles when we return home. Well that did not work out. I found out that you need both bottles full to work the propane system correctly. With one bottle empty and when the other gets to 1/2 or 1/3 full the propane system will shut down.
This is do to the safety system that is installed with a split propane tanks on 5ers. This senses an imbalance in the propane delivery pressure and the excess flow device is activated. This will allow a lower delivery pressure and flow to one appliance only such as the stove but the the furnace will not work. Since the furnace needs the exact pressure and flow rate to function correctly.
I do not know if this was your issue, but this is what shut my furnace down. Once I had full propane bottles and I activated the system per Keystone instructions the furnace worked correctly.
Just a thought.
Jim W.

Bob Landry · 04-21-2011, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim W

Tom and Kelly C.
Has your system been restored and working correctly now?
Please post an up-date and what was found to be the issue.

Last weekend my DW and I went camping in Northern IL., the week before we had 70F and 80F days. This last weekend we had snow/rain and 30's during the night with highs in the 40F's. Needless to say we ran the heat to keep warm.
We camped from Thursday to Sunday and on Saturday afternoon the heater stop. I thought we were out of propane. I knew that one bottle was empty from last season and we had a full bottle left over from last season. I thought one bottle would get us through the weekend and I would fill both bottles when we return home. Well that did not work out. I found out that you need both bottles full to work the propane system correctly. With one bottle empty and when the other gets to 1/2 or 1/3 full the propane system will shut down.
This is do to the safety system that is installed with a split propane tanks on 5ers. This senses an imbalance in the propane delivery pressure and the excess flow device is activated. This will allow a lower delivery pressure and flow to one appliance only such as the stove but the the furnace will not work. Since the furnace needs the exact pressure and flow rate to function correctly.
I do not know if this was your issue, but this is what shut my furnace down. Once I had full propane bottles and I activated the system per Keystone instructions the furnace worked correctly.
Just a thought.
Jim W.

I would be curious as to the exact difference between the propane system on a fiver compared to a TT. Why would there be a different system? It's a dual bottle setup connected to a changeover regulator with pigtails. I really think keystone is blowing smoke on this one and that some further component isolation is warranted. I still suspect a pigtail. There is a check valve in them that may be partially sticking and may need a full bottle to overcome it. If the furnace operates OK on one bottle, the regulator is OK, that's a common item. That leaves the pigtails and the bottles. It's possible, although improbable that a bottle is bad. Also, the low pressure out of the regulator is going to be the same regardless of which bottle it's fed by. There is no "balance". Once the gas leaves the regulator. it's fed to a black pipe maifold which in turn feeds each of the propane appliances. At that point, everything gets the same pressure. You are still down to the pigtails. That's all that's left that's not common to everything. I would suspect a problem with one input on the regulator if it had not been changed. but the OP said it has been replaced.
The OP needs to connect the pigtail from the empty bottle that was working with the furnace and connect it to the 1/3 full bottle. and see if the furnace works on that. He'll have to remove the cover and maybe move the tanks around, but from what I'm reading here so far, everything hasn't been eliminated. If the furnace still doesn't work, then there is likely a furnace problem, since every other component is working and all of the other appliances work on the same pressure, 11" WC. If they work on the propane system, then I would really start looking seriously at the gas input for the furnace.

dea3851 · 04-21-2011, 05:57 AM

Tom I worked for a propane company back in the 70s, when it got cold here in Michigan, some regulators would freeze up try pouring warm water over the reg and see if you get gas flow to stove, if that works turn gas off and take reg off turn upside down and pour denatured alcohol in reg to dry up any moisture in the reg just a thought it worked for us in Michigan, DON

Jim W · 04-22-2011, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Landry

I would be curious as to the exact difference between the propane system on a fiver compared to a TT. Why would there be a different system? It's a dual bottle setup connected to a changeover regulator with pigtails. I really think keystone is blowing smoke on this one and that some further component isolation is warranted. I still suspect a pigtail. There is a check valve in them that may be partially sticking and may need a full bottle to overcome it. If the furnace operates OK on one bottle, the regulator is OK, that's a common item. That leaves the pigtails and the bottles. It's possible, although improbable that a bottle is bad. Also, the low pressure out of the regulator is going to be the same regardless of which bottle it's fed by. There is no "balance". Once the gas leaves the regulator. it's fed to a black pipe maifold which in turn feeds each of the propane appliances. At that point, everything gets the same pressure. You are still down to the pigtails. That's all that's left that's not common to everything. I would suspect a problem with one input on the regulator if it had not been changed. but the OP said it has been replaced.
The OP needs to connect the pigtail from the empty bottle that was working with the furnace and connect it to the 1/3 full bottle. and see if the furnace works on that. He'll have to remove the cover and maybe move the tanks around, but from what I'm reading here so far, everything hasn't been eliminated. If the furnace still doesn't work, then there is likely a furnace problem, since every other component is working and all of the other appliances work on the same pressure, 11" WC. If they work on the propane system, then I would really start looking seriously at the gas input for the furnace.

On 5er's that have split bottle system there is the potential for the jumper hose, from one bottle to the regulator to fail. If this hose fails and there is a loss of propane, an I quote. "The “excess flow device” is a safety feature that is designed to detect a large leak in the propane system such as a broken gas line and reduce the flow of propane from the bottle." This is from the Keystone O&M guide on page 43, that you all read right?
Jim W.

Bob Landry · 04-22-2011, 05:03 AM

Every trailer that has two propane bottles is a "split bottle system" It's a regulator connected to each bottle by a pigtail to each one. While they claim the excess flow device is a safety feature, it does protect against a breakage and a rapid escape of gas, but I doubt it has any effect on a slow leak, or even opening tank valve too fast like many people like to jump on. I open my tanks quickly all the time and have never experienced an issue like many claim can happen. There is a distinct difference between a break and a leak. The pigtail is a rubber hose that can collapse internally and the check valve is a mechanical device that can fail. The OP has not narrowed down that he doesn't have a problem with one of the pigtails, only that the furnace works on a full tank. Again, if the furnace works at all, there are several items that are common and can be immediately eliminated. The only way to isolate the proble is to start switching the components that are not common, and he hasn't indicated that he has done that. He's only gone by what a salesman told him. He replaced the regulator and has the same problem. That doesn't leave much. A wrench and some yellow thread tape will tell him what he needs to know.

Tom and Kelley Crawford · 04-22-2011, 07:31 PM

Thanks to all who posted responses. We are back in warm (make that hot) Florida. Sent my wife to CW to get hoses and she came back with 2 but couldn't find the third one and I have a feeling that will be the one with the issue. I plan on bringing the 5er home tomorrow and working on the propane issue. Wife said clerk at CW told her rigs with tanks on opposite sides can have problems with pressure coming from the tank furthest from the regulator if the closer one is empty. I hope to get to the bottom of the problem tomorrow, otherwise I guess the rig goes into service. Will post again tomorrow night and let everyone know if we get this resolved.

Handysam · 04-22-2011, 07:55 PM

Hopefully you will get it right with these two hoses and a trip to the dealer is not necessary. Thanks for sharing your progress. All too often people post problems and we never here a word about the solutions, and never here from them again. I like to know what worked or didn't work so everyone can benefit or get the heads up on something. Happy camping, Sam

Bob Landry · 04-23-2011, 05:09 AM

You have to get a good chuckle out of what some of these retail clerks and salesmen come up with.

I think one lesson that can be learned from this thread and others like it is to carry an extra pigtail and at least a double stage regulator in your parts box. stuff like that is cheap enough and can really save a camping trip.

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