Getting Keystone to lower the GVWR when ordering

[Timon]

I'm wondering if one can get Keystone to lower the GVWR on a Montana when ordering it? We're looking at one that has the following ratings.

Shipping Weight 11,400
Carrying Capacity 4,600
Hitch 2,545

So it has a GVWR of 16,000 which requires a Class A noncommercial license in California. Since I really don't need a carrying capacity of 4,600 pounds I'd like to have the rating on the plates marked at 15,000 so the carrying capacity would only be 3,600 and thus removing the class A noncommercial requirement.

Ford, RAM and the other truck manufactures do this all the time when you're ordering for much the same reason. It would be great if Keystone would do the same when the weights are that close.

[KanTC]

Timon,

As far as we know none of our members work for/at Keystone, but... generally speaking, the majority of {mass production} manufacturers don't do *special orders* outside of the options offered for each line/brand. Your best bet would be to contact Keystone directly - and, if possible, speak to someone associated with the Montana line to ask if they would agree to your request. Can't hurt to ask!

Terri, the Chevy co-pilot

[Ken / Claudia]

My opinion is that if you need that size of trailer at a lower or custom GVWR you need to go to a company who builds trailers one at a time on a custom order routine. I would think this comes under company liability issues if they down grade the GVWR for you on your trailer. A phone call or email to Keystone might get the correct answer.

[Bob Landry]

Has anyone actually ever been pulled over and made to run their rig up on a scale?

[GaryWT]

I can see the post 2 years down the road when they sell the trailer; I just bought a Montana and mine only can carry 3,600 pounds when all the others of this model can carry 4,600, what's up, lol.

[Timon]

You would tell then that they won't have to get a Class A noncommercial license. What would be even better is to have it rated "California GVWR 15,000, other states 16,000"

There is a Montana High Country that has the same basic floor plan just not quite as nice of an interior. At least they are both 4 season extended stay rated.

The only reason for not going with a rig that requires Class A noncommercial license is that my DW will not drive anything that needs a special license.

So that's the bottom line.

[rbev2308]

Not sure about Ford changing GVWR all the time on orders. Yes, you can order a truck with different gear and several other factors which can change the GVWR from 10000 to 11500 and the dually is standard at 14,000 but having just read the CA law, it seems confusing as hell. Basically, everyone in CA would need this special license to tow a toy hauler as just about all of them have higher than 16,000 GVWR especially the triple axle ones.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/det...dl648/dl648pt2

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Bob Landry

Has anyone actually ever been pulled over and made to run their rig up on a scale?

Had a customer get pulled over, asked for his endorsement. When he couldn't produce it, was ordered to unhook. Wasn't allowed to get it back without proof of endorsement.

I have a family member that camps at a popular beach for quads and such. He watched CHP weigh a rear axle, and then look at the door sticker... yup it was confiscated on the spot. Owner had to pay impound fees, and couldn't get it out until a truck rated to tow it showed up.


It does happen. Maybe its just cash cramped California, but I wouldn't bet it isn't going to happen in other states.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Timon

You would tell then that they won't have to get a Class A noncommercial license. What would be even better is to have it rated "California GVWR 15,000, other states 16,000"

There is a Montana High Country that has the same basic floor plan just not quite as nice of an interior. At least they are both 4 season extended stay rated.

The only reason for not going with a rig that requires Class A noncommercial license is that my DW will not drive anything that needs a special license.

So that's the bottom line.

If you tow fiver with a gvwr over 10,000 pounds but under 15,000 pounds, you still need the "Travel Trailer Endorsement"

[GaryWT]

So this is so your wife will tow. My wife refuses to drive the truck, she would never tow but that is fine with me as I love to drive and tow.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Had a customer get pulled over, asked for his endorsement. When he couldn't produce it, was ordered to unhook. Wasn't allowed to get it back without proof of endorsement.

I have a family member that camps at a popular beach for quads and such. He watched CHP weigh a rear axle, and then look at the door sticker... yup it was confiscated on the spot. Owner had to pay impound fees, and couldn't get it out until a truck rated to tow it showed up.


It does happen. Maybe its just cash cramped California, but I wouldn't bet it isn't going to happen in other states.

Thanks for the reminder that my life is so much simpler since escaping Kalifornia in 1992.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by GaryWT

So this is so your wife will tow. My wife refuses to drive the truck, she would never tow but that is fine with me as I love to drive and tow.

She'll only drive when needed and mainly on the open highway with me doing all of the in town driving and parking.

I was looking at a used New Horizon but it would take at least a Ram 5500 or a Ford F550, maybe a F450, to haul it safely. Even used by the time you get the truck converted to haul a 26,000lb rig you're into a lot more than a 3500 or F350.

I'd go for a Super C MH and tow our Dodge Journey but she is not willing to spend anywhere close to what those cost even preowned.

So we compromise and get the truck plus a smaller 5er.

Bottom line, happy wife, happy life

[vampress_me]

Can you get the GVWR changed at the DMV for just the registration/ license plate? In minnesota, I just went through this with our F350 truck since we switched it from company owned to personal vehicle and had to get it re-registered (and taxed, of course - stinkin' state!). We could have chosen a 10,000 lb weight rating even though door sticker says 11500. And I *think* when we licensed our various trailers it was the same sort of choice. Of course, the downside is if you are ever caught over weight for the registration/plate itself even if the truck/trailer can legally carry it.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by vampress_me

Can you get the GVWR changed at the DMV for just the registration/ license plate? In minnesota, I just went through this with our F350 truck since we switched it from company owned to personal vehicle and had to get it re-registered (and taxed, of course - stinkin' state!). We could have chosen a 10,000 lb weight rating even though door sticker says 11500. And I *think* when we licensed our various trailers it was the same sort of choice. Of course, the downside is if you are ever caught over weight for the registration/plate itself even if the truck/trailer can legally carry it.

You can for the truck but I don't know for the trailer. The problem for the truck is when pulling the trailer but from my research on the CVRA it may be OK when pulling an RV but not anything else.

I'll research that plus call the DMV commercial division. This could take a few days...........

[vampress_me]

Originally Posted by Timon

You can for the truck but I don't know for the trailer. The problem for the truck is when pulling the trailer but from my research on the CVRA it may be OK when pulling an RV but not anything else.

I'll research that plus call the DMV commercial division. This could take a few days...........

Just to clarify, I did mean for the trailer, not the truck. I would never under register the truck, too much hassle if you ever want/need the full GVWR. But I would consider for the trailer if they allow.

[Ken / Claudia]

Weight police checking in, (retired wt. police). Regarding post 4, Yes that is a troopers job, not done every day but, when needed and at times with portable scales carried in the police car.
When we talk about pulling Rvs with pickups or trucks US DOT does not care. Further US DOT does not care unless in is a comm. vehicle (For Hire or driver being paid to move the RV). I am talking about driver's license, vehicle licenses or permits or endorsements. Each state has made their own laws for that stuff. Make sure your legal in your home state to drive/pull what you have and travel where you want. So, what ever California says their residents need regarding special licensing is not enforceable to travelers from another state.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by vampress_me

Just to clarify, I did mean for the trailer, not the truck. I would never under register the truck, too much hassle if you ever want/need the full GVWR. But I would consider for the trailer if they allow.

You might in CA when it comes to the CVRA. This is not confirmed but a sr tech at the DMV says to set your CVRA weight to what you'll normally need EXCEPT when pulling your RV.

So when I get the Ram 3500 it's rated at 14,400 plus a GCWR around 30K. Take a Montana High Country at 15,000 plus the truck your pushing about 22K to 25K combined. You don't want to rate your CVRA at the 25K level but you might rate it at the base of 10K or maybe 15K as needed for nonRV use.

CVRA fees:
Under 10,001 $0.00
10,001 to 15,000 $332
15,001 to 20,000 $447
20,001 to 26,000 $546
26,001 to 30,000 $586

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

I am talking about driver's license, vehicle licenses or permits or endorsements. Each state has made their own laws for that stuff. Make sure your legal in your home state to drive/pull what you have and travel where you want. So, what ever California says their residents need regarding special licensing is not enforceable to travelers from another state.

Including California regulations about weights, permits, licenses, stickers, fees, etc., while applicable to residents of that state, don't appear to apply in any other state. So what works for a member living in California (Timon), won't necessarily work for someone residing in Minnesota (vampress me).

As Ken pointed out in his post, make sure you are legal in your home state and don't worry about what the regulations are elsewhere. I know there are some exceptions to this, double towing for example, but I don't think the rest of us need to be worried about whatever special licensing and other requirements that exist in California - unless you live there.

[Pull Toy]

"I have a family member that camps at a popular beach for quads and such. He watched CHP weigh a rear axle, and then look at the door sticker... yup it was confiscated on the spot. Owner had to pay impound fees, and couldn't get it out until a truck rated to tow it showed up."

Are we talking GVRW or driver qual's? Some of us are pulling with vehicles that are not up to the job, but that shouldn't affect qualification to tow non-commercial rigs. Here in Connecticut, if you are legal weights on Tow and Trailer there is no issue. No CDL, No Endorsement, No Problem. I have towed all up and down the east coast (Florida to Nova Scotia), and as far west as Oklahoma. I always "SCALE" rather than get sent back, and 99.5% of the time get a green light, before I role onto the pad. I got the Red Light once in Prince "George County, MD, but that is a known B*ll Buster scale. The local State Police Academy mans it 24 by 7. Call it a stationary "Speed Trap" for tourists, and truckers!

If your state legislature allows for GCWR endorsements on drivers licenses for non-CLD drivers, Shame on them! Imagine what that will do to their "Tourist $$$". I believe the federal standard is 26,001# for a CDL. So what gives?

Fivers and Tags" are some of the most conscientious, and safe drivers out there! Here's to us!

[chuckster57]

From what I was told, over gross impound are a regular thing there. As to not having the correct license, I don't have any information about that camping area.