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Old 07-24-2013, 08:34 AM   #1
rhoag
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Keystone lost my business

My first travel trailer was a Keystone Cougar 29BHS and it was a very nice trailer. When we decided to go to a 5th wheel and a bigger camper we went back to keystone and ordered a brand new 2013 avalanche 341TG. Well, I have had nothing but problems with it and 99% of the problems were/are caused by poor quality control and the workers who built it. The list:
* All Cabinets poor varnish. 1 coat is not enough the end grain on every visible piece of wood is dull and dry.
* Scratch in one door another cracked
* 3/4 decking used under the bed as a base corners square and sharp and they used two pieces and they didn't even line them up, they were off by an inch.
* Left outside speaker not working ...bad wire crimp
* Hot water heater not working on gas...bad crimp and plug not pushed tight on the circuit board.
* Refrigerator not working ... bad crimp on the 12v going to the circuit board.
* 12v converter not working .... two blown 30 amp fuses...possibly caused by all the loose wires and crimps.
* Used the wrong wire to wire the contactor from the Automatic Transfer Switch to the customer hook up.
* Wire for awning motor routed wrong being pinched so awning wouldn't close all the way.
* 1 1/4 corrugated PVC tubing to fill fresh water tank sagging about 10 inches, not supported between cross members.
* Front motor for the jacks 1 bolt not tight and the other not even started.
* switch for the rear stabilizers put in crocked and broken.
* Main TV dead on first trip.
* Firing strips cracked and broken because holes were not pre-drilled
* Missing piece of trim in the outdoor kitchen.
* Rear sink drain plumbed to black tank vise gray
* Still investigating but, I think they forgot to vent the rear gray tank.

There is probably more that I have not found yet. This is only my second camper and I made mistakes. I bought late in the fall and it arrived at the dealer in the winter. I choose a crappy dealer and I didn't inspect it close enough when I picked it up. Some of the problems (fridge and converter) didn't appear until I actually trailed to our first trip. The water fill pi$$ed me off because I need my water tank first time out and I thought the tank was full and the gauge was broken. Normally when the water comes shooting back out at you it's full. Nope not when the fill line has a long sag in it and the weight of the water makes it sag more.
The first morning we woke up and the whole trailer was dead. No 12V because of the converter and no fridge even after I found the converter and the two blown 30 Amp fuses, so off to a local fleet farm for fuses.
Not a Happy Camper. Of all the things listed above I have fixed everything except the doors and cabinets. I'm just concerned about what is next. Looking at the quality of the worker that assembled my trailer makes me sick. Little things like say a group of 8 wires 3 on one side of a drain pipe and 5 on the other, wire loom 2 feet to long just left dangling. I guess the worker thought no one would ever have to take the panels in the storage off!!!! Ummm unless there are blown fuses in the converter!
Bottom line I will never purchase another keystone... the Avalanche is supposed to be a step up... i'm not seeing it.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:49 AM   #2
dankent
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Oh man ... i hope i do not run into these same issues

Maybe i will not sign anything else till i go over this thing according to the pdi checklist on the board here is satisfied.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:01 AM   #3
rhoag
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Go over every inch. make them take the 2 panels that face rear in the storage area off and look at the fill line. While in there make them move the converter to someplace that you can reach it to inspect/change fuses. Make them hook water to it while all tanks are empty then run each sink shower and toilet one at a time and see where it is going.
I just got off the phone with the dealer. I asked them to check into the stench problem with the aft bathroom and they couldn't find any problems. By running the water and putting water down the roof vents I found the sink plumbed wrong and no vent for the gray tank. So I don't have much faith in the dealer. They said they have to get authorization from Keystone. What a bunch of BS a brand new RV with these problems... fix it.
I tried a different dealer but, they said they wouldn't work on it unless I paid them and then I got keystone to reimburse me because they have been burned by Keystone not paying them.
The stench of human waste is a health hazard and we will have our 2 grandsons with us during our trip in 4 weeks. I guess we will all use the master bath til it is fixed.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:13 AM   #4
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Have you contacted Keystone customer service yet? I hope you get it solved soon! keeps us informed.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:22 AM   #5
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Sounds like they trained the 'new guy' on putting together your trailer while the others went for coffee. Or it was a 'Monday morning' trailer. Most would say "the luck of the draw". Chances are, if you went to look at the exact same trailer on another lot, it would be put together well, with very few or none of the problems you described. That's just the way it goes.

I hope you get these things resolved so you can enjoy your rig.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:50 AM   #6
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Sorry to hear you are having so many problems, but we had similar problems w/ a 2012 salem 292fk hemisphere ,we made so much stink about it on there facebook page ,company web site and salem owners forum they finally blocked us and got together w/ us and the dealer and bought the unit backAhhhhhhhhhhh the power of social media
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:36 AM   #7
rhoag
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I have filled out there review when they sent it to me and have contacted customer service via online form/e-mail and phone twice. Customer service says take it to the dealer. The dealer is clueless. Summer in Wisconsin is to short for my RV to be sitting at the dealer all summer. We have trips planned almost a year in advance and don't want to cancel our plans.
So I keep fixing what I can. This latest issue with the stench and the rear bathroom I can't fix. I looked today and I am not going to take that whole sheet off the bottom to access everything. The dealer says he has to wait for authorization from keystone.
And yes the build date was a Monday
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:43 AM   #8
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If you do a forum search about the bathroom stench issue, there have been some recent threads and posts about that very problem. There are a few suggested fixes for that smell that you can read and decide how you want to proceed.

Look at the blue bar at the top of the page and find the word "Search". Click on it and type in what you want to find. Keep it brief and specific.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:06 PM   #9
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Sorry to hear about your many problems.
We bought a 2014 Cougar High Country 321RES trailer and love it. Had to replace the door lock as they shipped the wrong keys. Just today I replaced the microwave. Otherwise we are more than happy with our Cougar. Going on three trips next month. Each a one week trip. The wife loves the floor plan and the quality of cabinets and detail work. Much better than our previous Jayco Eagle.
Happy trails,
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:13 PM   #10
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I bought one of the cheapest campers Keystone made and have been nothing but thrilled with it for 7+ years. All of the issues you list are not uncommon to all makers of RV's when you get right down to it, sad but true. When you pay workers by the piece you tend to get less than quality work regardless of what they are making. If they didn't pay by the piece most of us couldn't afford the RV to begin with. I trust you will be able to get all the issues worked out. I would keep pestering Keystone directly and ask them to arrange for a different dealer/repair facility to do the warranty work. The dealer you have sounds like they are incompetent.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:42 PM   #11
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Hey rhoag. I tried to send these through pm but couldn't figure out how. Guess I have only one in the back too. First pic is back end and second is front end.

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Old 07-24-2013, 01:25 PM   #12
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I've had my Outback for two years, and I have had my share of minor problems, but none to the extent of some of the ones expressed here. I only had to have the dealer fix one item, but I understand that not everyone has the time, tools, or expertise to correct a lot of problems, and the bottom line is, they shouldn't have to for what these things cost. Add to that the hassle of getting Keystone to approve a repair of something that should have never left the yard is unforgivable.
I can't say that I'm unhappy with my trailer because I've fixed and modded to get it the way we want it and we will likely keep this one for a while. I've tried to convince myself otherwise, but it really seems like Keystone is perfectly happy to keep the "one time buyer" share of the market. I'm a business owner and I assure you that I'm not in the business to send sales to someone else.
If there is another trailer, I'll probably do a lot more research than I did for the current trailer..
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:05 PM   #13
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I would agree rhoag, I chose my first 5er as a keystone and overall have been happy with it. But have been less than happy with the quality of the unit. Craftsmanship was def not in their vocabulary. I bought my new camper of march this year. Before I even took it for the first trip I had to return to the dealer for a cracked/leaking toilet valve and broken shear bolt on the front jack motor. All in all since march I have found 32 issues with our camper the dealer has and still has to fix. Ranging from small to large things. At the end of this season I have to return it back to the dealer for them to finish the repairs. When I was sealant foaming and taping some duct work I even found roofing scraps tuck in between the roof and ceiling. Like the attic portion. I guess the didn't have a garbage can and figured the customer wouldn't ever have vent covers off and wouldn't see it. It really is crappy work.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:06 PM   #14
rhoag
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Finally someone else that had there's built by the Monday morning shift. I just can't believe there is no QA!

Thanks justlkn that confirms that the gray and black tank in back are somehow tied together and vented out using one pipe through the roof. Maybe this is why some of us have severe odor problems when the aft bathroom gets used a lot.

I installed these extreme vents on the black tanks today. We will see if they help. They were not cheap because they are made out of aluminum and powder coated (not cheap plastic ones that break). Notice in front the black tank was the one on the right looking forward. The aft bathroom probably won't be used this week but our trip in two weeks it will. I will let you know if they help.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:33 PM   #15
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Have you guys ever had a nail or screw pop out of the Sheetrock in the sticks and bricks?? What about taking a gander in the attic there?? Ever see the scraps from the electrician or the HVAC guy?? What about looking at the way some plumbers make the hole in the roof decking for the vent stacks.....it is done with a 5lb maul and a big swing!!

Ain't just rv's that are using subpar construction. Buy what you want, but there are ALL going to have issues!!!!
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:09 PM   #16
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I will say it sounds like you have problems with the unit and will not say Keystone is bad or good. I will say that unlike many folks I have been around fleets of vehicles for my job and the state police has maybe 1000 cars, several hundred trucks, abunch of SUVs, 40 boats and all makes models have problems at times. At my office we had 90+ public owned vehicles. There were bad apples (vehicles) that were lemons. Somtimes major, mostly minor fixs. Ford, Chev, Dodge, etc. I was told once by a fleet guy that my car at that time was built on a Friday, thats why it was a continuing problem.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:12 AM   #17
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I agree, Ken. There are issues with the way some assembly line products are manufactured while the one before it and the one behind it are problem free.

As for "built on Monday" "built on Friday" The average run through the Keystone assembly line is 6 days from the time the frame enters the plant upside down (so they can install the coroplast base liner) until the time it's accepted at the other end and towed to the storage/transport yard. So, it seems every RV through the plant has a "monday/tuesday/wednesday/thursday/friday/sit the weekend/monday/tuesday syndrome........ If the chassis enters the line on Wednesday, then of course the cycle starts there, not on Monday, but the time frame remains about the same.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:02 AM   #18
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what happened to yhe pre delivery that you paid for

The dealer was happy to charge you for the PDI I would be speaking to the owner of the dealership, at least he should know about the shoddy work his service department is turning out. Our 331MKS had it's share of problems and our dealer did look after it all. The problems are not design but poor workmanship both at Keystone and your dealer.
good luck and don't forget Persistence overcomes Resistance
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:12 AM   #19
rhoag
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Yes the PDI had a check mark next to everything...all good to go IAW the tech that inspected it. I tried to talk to the manager of the dealership and he told the person to tell me to go see the manager of the department I had a problem with.

I will fix the varnish issue myself in the fall. The only thing I want the dealer to do is replace the cracked door and fix the sink that has the drain going to the wrong tank.

Well, we are off to Wisconsin Dells for a 4 day trip with friends... so we will see what else I find this time out.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:51 AM   #20
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We all feel your pain

Our current 5ver started with many problems, and we were ready to beat the dealer into submission. After 3 trips to the dealer, they fixed all the problems. I did fix a few items myself, but felt like by repairing those problems, Keystone or the dealer aren't aware of the the poor quality and our satisfaction level. And we live 100 miles away from the dealer we purchased our 5ver from, so the distance is an issue.

One interesting point you mention was a different dealer would only repair the problems if you paid them first. Several weeks ago someone pointed out in the Keystone owners manual. You can Search on "Owner's manual Dealer Responsiblities" The point of the other post was any Keystone Dealer should be happy to work on a warranty issue. When the other dealer declined, you should talk to Keystone directly - for what it's worth.
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