Don't Bleach It, Listerine It.

[DanandDonna]

Howdy! I recently purchased a Cougar 21RB and while at the Dealership was told by the PDI fellow that I only needed to use Listerine with an antibacterial added to clean my Fresh Water Tank. Follow the same instructions as if you were going to do bleach but use the Listerine or Scope instead. I was a little skeptical at first (retired paramedic) but went online did some checking and talked with some professional cleaners and used the Listerine.

I used 2 bottles with a full tank of water and then rinsed thoroughly. You will get a little bubbling action but it does go away. There was a little after taste with the first tank but when I did another flush it was all gone. The basic reason you are using the bleach is to kill the bugs if any and anti bacterial solution will do the same.

[theeyres]

I'm no medical expert so sure can't dispute your claim. All I know is that I've never heard of a doctor or hospital using Listerine to disinfect instruments or counters. I think I would like to see more medical experts that would agree with you.

Of course, it will probably be fine because I RV'd for 30 years in every kind of trailer, camper and fiver and never knew a thing about cleaning the fresh water tank. Just filled it up and left. Nobody ever got sick that I know of so...

[curlyfungirl]

Originally Posted by theeyres

I'm no medical expert so sure can't dispute your claim. All I know is that I've never heard of a doctor or hospital using Listerine to disinfect instruments or counters. I think I would like to see more medical experts that would agree with you.

Of course, it will probably be fine because I RV'd for 30 years in every kind of trailer, camper and fiver and never knew a thing about cleaning the fresh water tank. Just filled it up and left. Nobody ever got sick that I know of so...

What do you think Mr. Lister invented Listerine for??? He would have the doctors spray the operating rooms to kill the germs which cut down post surgical mortality drastically!

[SAD]

Ok... I'm a skeptic. Listerine works in your mouth full strength.

How could it possibly still be effective diluted 1/2 cup to 60 gallons?

I'm going to stick with the FDA approved bleach disinfectant method.

[RGRTim]

makes sense. I see no reason why it wouldnt work especially if you keep everything maintained to start with. If i was buying a used unit from someone i would probably start with bleach but from that point on I wouldnt have an issue with using the listerine. Thanks for the info.

[JRTJH]

I am a retired RNFA (Registered Nurse First Assistant) with about 20 years of surgery under my belt. In all those years, I have never used Listerine (or a Lister product) to disinfect the OR, patient or implements used in surgery. Heat, antibacterial soaking solutions and plain old soapy water with bleach in it are what's used in the OR.

There's a reason that municipal water systems use chlorine gas (Clorox) to disenfect water supplies. They haven't used Listerine, there's no talk of using Listerine and to my knowledge, they haven't tested Listerine.

Mouthwash, as stated above, kills (some bacteria) when used full strength. When diluted, where is the solution that stops being effective? Is 1 cup enough for a 40 gallon FW system? Does it take 2 cups, a small bottle, or is it a quart per 40 gallons? How long does it need to sit to sanitize the FW system? What damage does it do (if any) to the essential oils in the PEX tubing and the FW tank?

To my knowledge, this method has never been tested, there are no guidelines to explain how much, how long, how often. Bleach has been used for at least the last 45 years that I've been associated with RV's. It's effective, tested and performs in a predictable way.

Anyone is certainly free to use a $5 bottle of Listerine, maybe it will kill the pathogens normally found in the mouth, but will it kill the Guardia (small bugs) found in "foul water"? Listerine doesn't make a claim on their bottle, the MSDS doesn't list it as effective against protozoa or even against the broad spectrum of bacteria. It's a "target antiseptic" designed to reduce the pathogenic flora in the mouth, not in a water supply.

The bacteria found in the oral cavity are not the pathogens found in a water supply. Using the appropriate chemical solution to reduce not only bacteria but the other "illness causing bugs" in water is the reason for disinfection of a FW tank.

Bad breath is the last of my concern when drinking water in my RV. I don't want to get the "trots" and Listerine isn't formulated to kill them, especially in very small dilutions of a few cups to multiple gallons of water.

[curlyfungirl]

[QUOTE=JRTJH;75307]I am a retired RNFA (Registered Nurse First Assistant) with about 20 years of surgery under my belt. In all those years, I have never used Listerine (or a Lister product) to disinfect the OR, patient or implements used in surgery. Heat, antibacterial soaking solutions and plain old soapy water with bleach in it are what's used in the OR.

There's a reason that municipal water systems use chlorine gas (Clorox) to disenfect water supplies. They haven't used Listerine, there's no talk of using Listerine and to my knowledge, they haven't tested Listerine.

Mouthwash, as stated above, kills (some bacteria) when used full strength. When diluted, where is the solution that stops being effective? Is 1 cup enough for a 40 gallon FW system? Does it take 2 cups, a small bottle, or is it a quart per 40 gallons? How long does it need to sit to sanitize the FW system? What damage does it do (if any) to the essential oils in the PEX tubing and the FW tank?

To my knowledge, this method has never been tested, there are no guidelines to explain how much, how long, how often. Bleach has been used for at least the last 45 years that I've been associated with RV's. It's effective, tested and performs in a predictable way.

Anyone is certainly free to use a $5 bottle of Listerine, maybe it will kill the pathogens normally found in the mouth, but will it kill the Guardia (small bugs) found in "foul water"? Listerine doesn't make a claim on their bottle, the MSDS doesn't list it as effective against protozoa or even against the broad spectrum of bacteria. It's a "target antiseptic" designed to reduce the pathogenic flora in the mouth, not in a water supply.

The bacteria found in the oral cavity are not the pathogens found in a water supply. Using the appropriate chemical solution to reduce not only bacteria but the other "illness causing bugs" in water is the reason for disinfection of a FW tank.

Bad breath is the last of my concern when drinking water in my RV. I don't want to get the "trots" and Listerine isn't formulated to kill them, especially in very small dilutions of a few cups to multiple gallons of water.[/QU


I have been an RN for over 20 years. Obviously health care has made great strides in disinfecting agents. Listerine was the first one available and opened the eyes of many that deaths could be greatly reduced with improved hygiene. RELAX, first nurse assistant.

[SteveC7010]

I did some internet searching on the topic. Interestingly, there are more than a few that are using Listerine instead of bleach, but no one seems to know what quantity of Listerine per gallon of water is truly effective. One guy said he used two full bottles of it for his fresh water tank.

I'd like to see some science on the matter and some answers to...

What mix of Listerine mouth wash to water is as effective as the common mix of Clorox to water in truly disinfecting our RV fresh water systems?

Are other anti-bacterial mouthwashes equally effective?

Wikipedia has a page on Listerine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listerine Interestingly, the Listerine that was used to disinfect surgical rooms was a much higher concentration than what is marketed as mouthwash today.

There are lots of articles about using Listerine as a disinfectant for other purposes. One recommends 1:1 dilution in water for disinfecting surfaces like a counter top. Another calls for a cup of Listerine dumped in a washing machine to clean that up (no clothing in the machine at the time, please.) But they are all colloquial with no read facts to back them up.

So I will accept that there is some substance to the use of Listerine as a disinfectant, but I'd sure like to see some better info on how much to use.

The OP also used two bottles in place of the normal Clorox mix. Small, medium, large, or super size?

[SAABDOCTOR]

WOW This could get better than which is the best truck i'll stick with what has worked for years, and keep the mouthwash in the medicine chest. bleach is cheap!!!

[SAD]

Originally Posted by curlyfungirl

I have been an RN for over 20 years. Obviously health care has made great strides in disinfecting agents. Listerine was the first one available and opened the eyes of many that deaths could be greatly reduced with improved hygiene. RELAX, first nurse assistant.

He sounded pretty relaxed.

[geo]

Wow! I think some calm is needed.

I believe that Drs. Lawrence and Lambert first formulated "Listerine" to be used as a surgical antiseptic in 1879. (It was named after Dr. Joseph Lister who promoted the use of antiseptics, sterilizing instruments, and sterile surgery in the late 1800s.) Obviously it must not have been that successful in that application since it was given to dentists for oral care in 1895 and then sold over the counter in 1914. According to the Listerine website:

This gold-hued wonder hasn't changed much since its introduction back in 1895. Sure, it's a little intense, but no other mouthwash can compete with its impressive germ-killing career.

Whoa, since 1895? But that is when Listerine was introduced for oral care! So, what was in the Listerine introduced for surgical antiseptic?

So how does Listerine work?

LISTERINE® Fights Germs with Essential OilsThe power of LISTERINE® Antiseptic comes from a formula of four essential oils that kill millions of germs on contact. Our fixed combination of eucalyptol, menthol, methyl salicylate, and thymol continues to deliver unsurpassed results. No other branded mouthwash has this formula. And that's why no other mouthwash feels or works like LISTERINE®.

But Listerine also contains alcohol in the form of ethanol at a concentration of 26.9%. Good? Not very. Ethanol is only toxic to bacteria at concentrations greater than 40% (that's 80 proof in drinking terms). The ethanol is only used as a carrier for the essential oils.

So, what are the concentrations of essential oils?

The active ingredients listed on Listerine bottles are essential oils menthol 0.042%, thymol 0.064%, methyl salicylate 0.06%, and eucalyptol 0.092%.

Hmm, pretty low percentages even for one bottle! But what is the purpose of these active ingredients, according to Listerine?

Antiplaque and antigingivitis.

And what is the recommended usage strength?

Rinse full strength for 30 seconds.

Any affect upon Giardia or Cryptosporidium? Nothing is stated that it has any affect on these protozoa or any other disease causing bacteria.

So, if one was to use "Listerine" to sanitize the fresh water system of a RV, I think the correct concentration would most likely be full strength! Just a might on the expensive side for me, let's see, 1.5 Liter bottle is US$8.39, so that makes a gallon at US$31.76. So a typical Keystone RV water system holds around 66 gallons, so to fill the fresh water system, one would have to purchase US$2096.16 worth of Listerine. Hmmm, little expensive for my tastes, but I bet the fresh water tank would smell very good! Absolutely no halitosis!

Other uses for Listerine over the years? From 1921 until the mid-1970s, it was marketed as preventing and curing colds and sore throats. Those claims were found to be misleading and ineffective. And in fact, Listerine had to spend US$10.2 million in advertising stating that

"contrary to prior advertising, Listerine will not help prevent colds or sore throats or lessen their severity."

In the 1930s, Listerine was advertised as curing dandruff. At the end of the 1920s, there were even Listerine cigarettes! And some have even used it as a mosquito repellant!

As there are posted warnings discouraging swallowing Listerine, I would say that the same procedures should be used to sanitize the fresh water system with full strength Listerine as there would be with diluted Clorox. Fill the fresh water system, let it set 4 hours or so, drain, fill with fresh water, drain, and then use.

By the way, a three quart jug of Clorox costs about US$7.49, so about $0.08 an ounce. That versus Listerine in a 1.5 liter bottle at US$0.49 an ounce.

Ron

[SteveC7010]

Originally Posted by geo

By the way, a three quart jug of Clorox costs about US$7.49, so about $0.08 an ounce. That versus Listerine in a 1.5 liter bottle at US$0.49 an ounce.

Ron

What I read on Wikipedia was almost verbatim what you posted above.

I was going to get into the cost factor in my previous post but had to run an errand. If I read the de-winterizing and disinfecting instructions correctly, it takes about 3/4 of a cup of full strength out of the jug chlorine bleach to take care of an RV with a 40 gallon FW tank. My Cougar has a 60 gallon FW tank so I'd expect to use about 1.25 cups or so. That translates to about $0.80 to do my system, plus the water, of course.

What springs to mind here is a great number of folks who don't want to spend 4 or 5 bucks per gallon for RV antifreeze and go to great lengths to avoid doing so. Somehow the two topics seem to be connected.

[flybouy]

I suggest several cases of your favorite whiskey. The aftertaste is better and its very effective at killing germs. Just kidding, that would probably stain the tub and sink

[geo]

Steve -

You are correct. The Listerine website and Wikipedia are very close in what both say. Kinda which came first ...

Ron

[f6bits]

I'm totally down for filling my fresh water tank with whiskey. I'm pretty sure that's good for winterizing, too, right?

[labs4life]

Originally Posted by f6bits

I'm totally down for filling my fresh water tank with whiskey. I'm pretty sure that's good for winterizing, too, right?

Now I think you are on to something!!!!

[davidjsimons]

So, did somebody say that it was supposed to be sunny and warm this weekend?


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[JRTJH]

David,

It was sunny and warm here today. High of 86 this afternoon and even now, it's 66 and the sun just went down behind the trees. I was able to get the fantastic fan installed and the trailer FW tank is sitting filled with clorox/water. I'll drain it tomorrow afternoon, flush it and install the second battery. Then, we're heading out for a couple of days.

Ain't the weather quite lovely this time of year? Well, excpet for those poor souls around Denver/Golden/Loveland, Colorado.

Now, I guess, it's back to the discussion. I'm hoping everyone will have "chilled a bit" by now

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

David,

I was able to get the fantastic fan installed and the trailer FW tank is sitting filled with clorox/water.

Now, I guess, it's back to the discussion. I'm hoping everyone will have "chilled a bit" by now

John-
That would be bleach as opposed to Listerine? Yes, cool for sure 86 degrees? So, how does it finally feel to be a part of the rest of civilization? Have a great couple of days.

[JRTJH]

Festus2, My DW jokingly commented today that we completely skipped spring. It went from 20's at night and 40's during the day to 60 tonight and 86 today. That is the normal temps for July/August. You won't find me complaining about the heat, after all, it's just like a February day in Louisiana LOL

Oh yes, there's still about a foot of snow on the road behind our house. It hasn't been plowed all winter and sits on the north side of a big patch of pine trees, so it hasn't had any sun. A couple of kids were out there riding snowmobiles this afternoon in 80+ weather. Short sleeve shirts on snowmobiles? Hmmmmm now that's "completely civilized"

And it's bleach in my tank. Tried, tested and effective. My days of "don't drink the water, it's not good for you" are behind me.... Well, unless there's a bit of Dickle or Beam to "color it properly" LOL Branch water, that is......