Dealer vs. % formula for pin weight?

[Pathman]

So, just spent two hours at a Gander ( soon to be Camping World) and couldn’t reconcile the pin weight they gave, as opposed to the % formula you all have advocated, and that I understand at this point.

The sales manager maintains that Keystone physically weighs the fifth wheel, fully loaded, to arrive at the actual pin weight, similar to the process to weigh front/rear axles on a Catscale. He also maintains that water and waste tanks are at, or behind, the axle, So no additional weight should be factored into the pin weight when tanks are full.

Do you all know whether this is all accurate? Does Keystone actually weigh the units to get the pin weight?
The numbers are significantly different between the two methods (~500#).

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Pathman

So, just spent two hours at a Gander ( soon to be Camping World) and couldn’t reconcile the pin weight they gave, as opposed to the % formula you all have advocated, and that I understand at this point.

The sales manager maintains that Keystone physically weighs the fifth wheel, fully loaded, to arrive at the actual pin weight, similar to the process to weigh front/rear axles on a Catscale. He also maintains that water and waste tanks are at, or behind, the axle, So no additional weight should be factored into the pin weight when tanks are full.

Do you all know whether this is all accurate? Does Keystone actually weigh the units to get the pin weight?
The numbers are significantly different between the two methods (~500#).

“fully loaded” but that doesn’t include the batteries, propane ,anything YOU put inside it and that’s also empty holding tanks

[wrvond]

The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of your camper is a fixed value. When the camper is built it is weighed at the factory. This value is subtracted from the GVWR which gives you the maximum cargo carrying capacity of your camper.
The factory does not install propane, water, batteries or other dealer installed options such as slide toppers. Therefor they cannot include those items in the weight of the camper. Additionally, I'd be skeptical about the location of all the tanks. I know I've got at least one in front of the axles on my camper if not more.

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by Pathman

So, just spent two hours at a Gander ( soon to be Camping World) and couldn’t reconcile the pin weight they gave, as opposed to the % formula you all have advocated, and that I understand at this point.

The sales manager maintains that Keystone physically weighs the fifth wheel, fully loaded, to arrive at the actual pin weight, similar to the process to weigh front/rear axles on a Catscale. He also maintains that water and waste tanks are at, or behind, the axle, So no additional weight should be factored into the pin weight when tanks are full.

Do you all know whether this is all accurate? Does Keystone actually weigh the units to get the pin weight?
The numbers are significantly different between the two methods (~500#).

Where is the bathroom located on the camper you are looking at? The black tank is located directly below the toilet 99.99 percent of the time with a gray tank close by.

Here is the floorplan of my camper. The axles are below the television and microwave. The only tank behind those axles is the freshwater tank. So yes, the status of the tanks is going to affect pin weight.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Pathman

So, just spent two hours at a Gander ( soon to be Camping World) and couldn’t reconcile the pin weight they gave, as opposed to the % formula you all have advocated, and that I understand at this point.

The sales manager maintains that Keystone physically weighs the fifth wheel, fully loaded, to arrive at the actual pin weight, similar to the process to weigh front/rear axles on a Catscale. He also maintains that water and waste tanks are at, or behind, the axle, So no additional weight should be factored into the pin weight when tanks are full.

Do you all know whether this is all accurate? Does Keystone actually weigh the units to get the pin weight?
The numbers are significantly different between the two methods (~500#).

Now that’s funny, I don’t care who you are!!!

If you think for 1 minute that the factory is going take the time to load EVERY trailer to max and then weigh it, they won’t get many units done in a shift. The “shipping weight” is what the trailer weighs when it leaves the assembly line, pin weight (if they weigh it) will be at the same time.

Do yourself a favor…quit listening to people that only have a vested interest in making money. Do as many members here have advised/ use 23% of the trailer GVWR for pin weight and you can’t go wrong.

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by jasin1

“fully loaded” but that doesn’t include the batteries, propane ,anything YOU put inside it and that’s also empty holding tanks

He said they already calculate the filled tank weights. I’m just telling you what he told me.

[Texas Steve]

Were his lips moving?

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Now that’s funny, I don’t care who you are!!!

If you think for 1 minute that the factory is going take the time to load EVERY trailer to max and then weigh it, they won’t get many units done in a shift. The “shipping weight” is what the trailer weighs when it leaves the assembly line, pin weight (if they weigh it) will be at the same time.

Glad I can add to you’re entertainment today!😂

That being said, if they did weigh the pin weight, would that be accurate other then what was loaded in the unit?
Again, they maintain that the “23% is just an estimate” his words.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Pathman

Glad I can add to you’re entertainment today!😂

That being said, if they did weigh the pin weight, would that be accurate other then what was loaded in the unit?
Again, they maintain that the “23% is just an estimate” his words.

See my edited addition. There is NO WAY that sales person or anyone at Keystone can determine the EXACT pin weight of the trailer you buy because they don’t know how your going to load it. The ONLY WAY to get an EXACT pin weight is to put all your stuff in it and weigh it. Then there’s water and tank placement. I could go on all day but I only have 30 minutes left of lunch time.

No one on this forum is trying to sell you a trailer so we have no reason to spin a tale. But I have seen it first hand!!!

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Pathman

He said they already calculate the filled tank weights. I’m just telling you what he told me.

Did he have some nice mountian land in Florida for sale to? Gee, let me think, who to trust, some codgy old guys on a forum with hundreds of years experience with no "skin in the game"? The guy at the dealership that wants your money, whom likely has never been to the factory, never seen one built, never slept in one and last moth was selling used cars.

Good Luck, I'm sure he told you that your truck will "pull anything on the lot" to.

[wrvond]

OK, the salesman is right in a sense. But he's misleading you. Keystone does not figure pin weight.
Attached is the sticker from my camper. Note it shows the empty weight and the maximum loaded weight. If you subtract the empty weight from the maximum loaded weight you get 2530 pounds. So that should be my cargo carrying capacity. But wait, if you look at the bottom of the sticker, it lists a different value for my cargo carrying capacity. The explanation for the different CCC is that Keystone does, indeed, figure (estimate) the weight of the vehicle with full tanks.
But you need to realize, what they are saying is that I should not load my camper with 2530 pounds of stuff because when my tanks fill up I will suddenly be over my GVWR.
None of this has anything to do with the pin weight.
If you estimate the pin weight based on 23% of the GVWR you will have a good idea of how much weight will be bearing down on the back of your truck. The pin weight really should be less than that figure because we all know that nobody overloads their camper, let alone fill it to the maximum rating.

[jasin1]

keystone does weigh the rigs when they are empty i believe or maybe one of each model every so often..the sticker on mine is on my entry door…but that again doesn’t include tanks,batteries,your cargo etc

[Scttw]

Hey Pathman, when you have Chuck and Flybouy, or John for that matter, giving you advise. You can take it to the bank

I know you were only repeating what that dude told you .... but I'd trust the guys here 100 times more often!

[RollaMo]

Originally Posted by Pathman

So, just spent two hours at a Gander ( soon to be Camping World) and couldn’t reconcile the pin weight they gave....

1st mistake: Listening to much of anything a "salesman" at Camping World tells you.
They have a vested interest in selling you a trailer, and will tell you anything in order to make that sale.


We went to a Camping World when we first started looking at travel trailers several years ago. As soon as we walked inside, I knew we were NOT going to be buying anything from them.
The whole atmosphere reminded me of a time share selling seminar.
We kept saying we were just looking and were not quite ready to buy yet, but they kept pushing.
They also had the highest prices of any place around.
We left and looked at other mom and pop dealers, and had a much better buying experience.

[jsb5717]

The advice here is sound. If the reason you're trying to figure it out is to make sure you have enough truck then follow the 23% rule for calculations. Yes, it is a calculation. But it will get you much closer to having the right truck than the guy who's trying to make a commission. Remember, these are the same people who try to sell "half-ton-towable" 5th wheels.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Scttw

Hey Pathman, when you have Chuck and Flybouy, or John for that matter, giving you advise. You can take it to the bank

I know you were only repeating what that dude told you .... but I'd trust the guys here 100 times more often!

I wouldn't trust what any of those guys said. I would go with the salesman who probably took a class from Keystone on pin weights and is far more knowledgeable than any of the civilians on this forum. I bet that salesman has fully loaded dozens of campers and took them down to the scales and weighed them to confirm his assertations! I bet he even has an RV WEIGHT EXPERT plaque on his wall in his office. I believe whatever any RV salesman tells me. I do, I do. Haven't we already been down this road with the OP? If he can't reconcile what he is being told here on the forum with the salesman's expertise, let him go with the salesman's expertise. In fact, if the OP wants, he can ask the salesman how many campers he has personally owned or weighed and that will prove the guy knows more than the collective brain trust on this site. OUT... I won't be drawn into any more.

[travelin texans]

I think the only "fully loaded" item was the salesperson you were listening to & loaded full of BS.
As already said the 23% of the GVWR is an estimate, but if you're trying to pair an rv to an appropriate truck & don't have it at hand to haul to the scales then that "estimate" is your only option.
Did that person also mention that your truck was rated to "tow" XXXXlbs?

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

I wouldn't trust what any of those guys said. I would go with the salesman who probably took a class from Keystone on pin weights and is far more knowledgeable than any of the civilians on this forum. I bet that salesman has fully loaded dozens of campers and took them down to the scales and weighed them to confirm his assertations! I bet he even has an RV WEIGHT EXPERT plaque on his wall in his office. I believe whatever any RV salesman tells me. I do, I do. Haven't we already been down this road with the OP? If he can't reconcile what he is being told here on the forum with the salesman's expertise, let him go with the salesman's expertise. In fact, if the OP wants, he can ask the salesman how many campers he has personally owned or weighed and that will prove the guy knows more than the collective brain trust on this site. OUT... I won't be drawn into any more.

You’re a funny guy George, even though you’re a bit of an Ahole.
I didn’t say I believed him, that’s the entire reason I asked for your expert opinions on whether what he was saying was accurate or not. I’m well past all the calculations, that was last week.
This is not what this specific question was about, this was strictly about the process the salesman claimed Keystone used, and if there was any truth to it.

Hey, let’s be clear here, I don’t know any of you from Adam either, so why should I trust any of you crusty old codgers as far as I can carry you?!!!😂 for all I know, the lot of you sit in your smoky trailers all day long with a calculator weighing every ounce of stuff that goes in and out!🤦*♂️😜

Listen, I’m having a little fun with you guys because you’re way too uptight about all this, the fact that I’ve never been to a fifth dealer before puts me at a loss to counteract the typical salesman’s BS, that’s why I’m asking questions, it’s not because I believe what he’s telling me, it’s because I don’t!

[Pathman]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I think the only "fully loaded" item was the salesperson you were listening to & loaded full of BS.
As already said the 23% of the GVWR is an estimate, but if you're trying to pair an rv to an appropriate truck & don't have it at hand to haul to the scales then that "estimate" is your only option.
Did that person also mention that your truck was rated to "tow" XXXXlbs?

Yes TT, I’m solid with the 23% thing, even though I personally think you guys are way too conservative with that, but I’m not experienced enough to dispute it with factual data, so I’ll take your collective experience for what it’s worth, and I do appreciate it.
That being said, I cut him off immediately when he asked what my towing capacity of my truck was, told him it didn’t matter, just like you all advised!😁

[Gkri]

Originally Posted by Pathman

You’re a funny guy George, even though you’re a bit of an Ahole.
I didn’t say I believed him, that’s the entire reason I asked for your expert opinions on whether what he was saying was accurate or not. I’m well past all the calculations, that was last week.
This is not what this specific question was about, this was strictly about the process the salesman claimed Keystone used, and if there was any truth to it.

Hey, let’s be clear here, I don’t know any of you from Adam either, so why should I trust any of you crusty old codgers as far as I can carry you?!!!😂 for all I know, the lot of you sit in your smoky trailers all day long with a calculator weighing every ounce of stuff that goes in and out!🤦*♂️😜

Listen, I’m having a little fun with you guys because you’re way too uptight about all this, the fact that I’ve never been to a fifth dealer before puts me at a loss to counteract the typical salesman’s BS, that’s why I’m asking questions, it’s not because I believe what he’s telling me, it’s because I don’t!

All i know is that after reading this forum for the last year and taking a lot of their combined wisdom to heart, i feel a much safer RV'er out on the road. I think many are uptight because they have seen first hand and on You-Tube videos what can happen with an overloaded TV. Not only can you get injured but maybe one of the other forum members or their family members could be on the road with an unsafe TV RV combo.