Thinking on new tow vehicle

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RickV

The 2003 Duramax Dually I updated to my current vehicle from had a EFI tune and I ran it on the heavy tow setting when pulling. Going up up any grade the lower front section of the 5ver would be covered in soot had to use magic erasers to get the soot off. It also struggled on grades and I would have to slow down to 30mph on some grades and the 5ver we had was 3000lbs lighter then what I am dragging around now. The new truck pulling the same grades with the new 5ver never skipped a beat going up the same grades. "Yeah I want a old non DEF Truck that lacks power"

With my 93 NA diesel and the 99 "pre DEF diesel" it was IMPOSSIBLE to sit in the garage with the door closed, roll down the driver's window and start the truck. Doing so was "literally painful to the ears" from the rattle of the cold diesel engine and the amount of exhaust produced by the cold engine "smoking through the exhaust" would fill the garage with diesel soot. So, it was either open the garage door and roll up the truck windows or "suffer the consequences"... If you had the truck windows down and the garage door closed, you had to put on ear muffs and you'd have to go back inside to shower, change clothes and take two Tylenol for the headache before you could go to work.....

Would I want an "old non-DEF truck" ??? Yeah, and I enjoy headaches and love dealing with the aches and pains of old age and "long for an overdrawn checking account" so I can relive the "good old days"

Some things may not be as good as they used to be, but a diesel with DEF ain't one of them !!!!!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

...

I've never met anyone who has actually owned or owns a DEF diesel who would say such things as, "Never buy a truck that uses DEF"....

Originally Posted by JBM3M

Well during my research, I spoke to certified mechanics/technicians. All complained how much trouble these new diesels are. (they did not mention DEF) Gonna stick with my 7.3 with the high altitude tow package....no smoke even at Eisenhower tunnel and I was passing diesel BMW's.

But, you've never actually owned or currently own a diesel with DEF ????? All your "information about how bad they are" is based on somebody else's opinion.... I see your point .....

[pawpaw]

May I suggest a '84 1/2 ton Silverado with the 350 cubic inch diesel. No DEF required. Great towing machine but most spent their life being towed! Major improvement a few years later with the 6.9 Ford diesel...no problem if you had hearing loss or just need to haul styrofoam pillows! The Cummins 5.9 had a distinctive sound like its grandpa the 270 Cummins. Pretty good coal roller too sorta like a '62 Mack engine with bad injectors! Point is the new diesels are quiet..have great acceleration and the DEF systems are pretty dependable. 3 diesel pickups in my family and none have had any DEF related problems.

[RickV]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

But, you've never actually owned or currently own a diesel with DEF ????? All your "information about how bad they are" is based on somebody else's opinion.... I see your point .....

I have a good buddy who has a small auto repair shop he is around 75 years old and has been a mechanic most of his life. His whole opinion on DEF is that the only problem he has ever had with DEF vehicles is when someone puts in old DEF in their vehicle. He says it basically sours. So based on that I always buy the freshest DEF I can find and usually get it when at a truck stop from their pumps. I figure that it is gotta be pretty fresh especially at busy ones. As for off the shelf you need a Ovaltine Secret Decoder Ring to decipher the manufactured date codes except for the the Walmart Super Tech stuff it just has a date so that's what I buy when I need DEF.

[Essvar]

My 2 cents on the DEF discussion... Higher mileage you will have extra expenses, and try to avoid the first model year of any rig with DEF (2012)


I had a 2012 Duramax with DEF and at 220k it started with a whole host of issues, tank heater, injector, particulate filter clogged ect... and the worst part of the duramax is that when you get a DEF error code it will countdown mileage and de-rate your speed until you clear the code. Its serious, I pushed the countdown and it literally would not let me go over 45mph


Moving forward 2018 Cummins 200k on the clock and no issues with the DEF system yet.



I agree with the statement about old fluid, don't use it. DEF is urea which will 'gel' over time and cause you a headache.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I owned a 1993 Ford 7.3L NA diesel. Towing through New Mexico, pulling the hills around Albuqurque, we filled the Holiday Rambler FULL of black soot because we left the roof vents open creating a vacuum in the trailer.

I owned a 1999 Ford 7.3L turbo diesel. Towing through New Mexico, pulling the hills around Alburqurque, we covered the front of the Holiday Rambler FULL of black soot, but only a slight diesel smell inside the trailer.

I own a 2015 Ford 6.7L turbo diesel with DEF. Towing through New Mexico, pulling the hills around Alburqurque, there's no soot on the trailer, no smell of diesel in the trailer. At home, the garage smells more "musty from water tracked in on the tires" than it does from "diesel soot from starting the truck to back it out"...

There is a DISTINCT difference in diesel's these days. They no longer are the sooty, smelly, STINKING engines of the "pre DEF era"...

Anybody who says "Don't buy a diesel with DEF" is obviously "drinkin' the KoolAid" and doesn't know a damn thing about modern diesels from any of the major manufacturers.....

Talk to someone, anyone who owns a 2013 or newer diesel with DEF (not a coal rolling enthusiast) and you'll hace all your "prejudices" dispelled with actual "facts"...

I've never met anyone who has actually owned or owns a DEF diesel who would say such things as, "Never buy a truck that uses DEF"....

My old 2006 6.0L is pre DEF and it doesn't smoke or stink. I have no black soot coming out the exhaust. This is an actual fact.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RickV

I have a good buddy who has a small auto repair shop he is around 75 years old and has been a mechanic most of his life. His whole opinion on DEF is that the only problem he has ever had with DEF vehicles is when someone puts in old DEF in their vehicle. He says it basically sours. So based on that I always buy the freshest DEF I can find and usually get it when at a truck stop from their pumps. I figure that it is gotta be pretty fresh especially at busy ones. As for off the shelf you need a Ovaltine Secret Decoder Ring to decipher the manufactured date codes except for the the Walmart Super Tech stuff it just has a date so that's what I buy when I need DEF.

Same with me, and I'm certainly no automotive expert, just a "long time user of the product". I always have my oil changed at the dealership so there's no question if a warranty issue comes up. When I bought this diesel, there was a 55 gallon barrel of DEF with a hand crank pump sitting beside the oil change pit. That barrel had white crystals all around it and on the nozzle of the pump. I "surmised" (fancy word for SWAG) that was not something that would be a benefit to my truck, so after the first oil change, I always told them that I didn't want them to add any DEF. I've never had any problems with my DEF system and I "surmise" (SWAG) that the reason is because I've never put "crystalized, old DEF" in the truck. I'd feel the same if I saw a barrel of oil with water floating on top sitting beside the pit... DON'T PUT THAT CRAP IN MY TRUCK !!!!!

I buy my DEF at WalMart and have been known to empty the entire shelf to get to the new stuff in the back of the pile. (I do put all the old stuff back on the shelf, so I'm a "conscientious shopper" I suppose).... LOL

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by JBM3M

Well during my research, I spoke to certified mechanics/technicians. All complained how much trouble these new diesels are. (they did not mention DEF) Gonna stick with my 7.3 with the high altitude tow package....no smoke even at Eisenhower tunnel and I was passing diesel BMW's.

I've owned 2 GMC Duramax 1 ton duallies, an '05 non DEF & a '13 w/ DEF. The difference in power between the 2 trucks was night/day, I thought the '05 was phenomenal but the '13 was more so & the DEF was a non issue.
With 300k+ between the 2 trucks those mechanics/technicians you talked with would've starved waiting to work on either of them.
Now my son had an Excursion w/ the 6.0 POS that those mechanics/technicians could've retired on if he could have afforded to keep it & keep it running. That was the biggest waste of iron they ever placed under a hood even after the 4th so called "bullet proofing".

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I buy my DEF at WalMart and have been known to empty the entire shelf to get to the new stuff in the back of the pile. (I do put all the old stuff back on the shelf, so I'm a "conscientious shopper" I suppose).... LOL

Back when I bought it at Walmart I was lucky if they even HAD any left on the shelf!

Yeah, coming from a 97 F-350 with the tried and true 7.3 Powerstroke, I was leery of the new varieties of diesel powerplants offered in the Fords (or even GM's as my brother and I both had these) especially after the 6.0 issues that showed up in my Dad's 2004 F-250. The techs that I worked with at the Ford dealer held onto their 7.3's until the 2011 6.7's proved it's mettle and then once they started buying them I did too.

Even then I had decided when the first issue with the DEF system reared it's ugly head, the system would get deleted and replaced with a tune and I'd get even more power out of it. Well, it has 197K miles on it now with only a reductant tank heater failure and that was covered under special warranty two or three years ago and with the Banks Power program it's making 510 hp and 1065 ft/lbs of torque and for an 8000 pound truck it takes off like a cat launch on an aircraft carrier so, I'm a believer.

The techs I worked with dubbed the 6.0's and the later 6.4's "the gifts that keep on giving" so steer clear from them if you can!

[jfk69]

I have no issues running an engine with DEF. I LOVE the fact that I DON’T look like a 1890’s locomotive from a mile away. My truck is quiet and runs clean. Yes, I have a subtle diesel “rattle” that occurs when I’m in a higher gear under load from the pilot injectors, but it’s nothing like the 90’s/early 2000 diesels.

Anyone living on the old diesels thinking they’d never run a DEF diesel is, quite frankly a dinosaur that is missing out on an incredible driving experience. My truck literally does not drop gears on inclines. Now I admit I haven’t pulled the Ike in it, but it’s crazy to set the cruise and never see it downshift on a grade. The only way you know you’re climbing is the increase in turbo boost pressure on the gauge. I’ll ask a simple question..how many of those stock 7.3 turbo diesels can get up to 30 or 40 mph, hammer the skinny pedal, and bust the rear end loose on dry pavement? Exactly none. 440HP and 850 ft lbs of torque is a truly wonderful thing.

[German Shepherd Guy]

Originally Posted by sourdough

As far as what truck, Marshall is right. I like Rams because little things that I prefer. My son loves GM. I used to love Fords. Others love what they love for who knows what kinds of reasons. Bottom line is that all of the big 3 now make very capable HD trucks with not a lot of difference between them - except those little things that make each of us prefer one over another.

I think Danny and Marshal are both right.
In all but 3 states now the four top selling vehicles are trucks. Ford, then Chevy, then GMC, then Ram. The order switches around in some states but there it is, For some reason the count is separate for GMC and Chevy.


I think what should be the buy factor is who can deliver the most truck for the least amount, knowing in advance that there are only a few nickles difference between the least amount and the most if the truck is equipped the way you want it regardless of who makes it.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JBM3M

Well nothing serious wrong with our 2000 F350, but it does have little this and thats that need fixed and it has none of the electronic goodies we now rely on.



BUT it is a 7.3L diesel with manual, altitude package, tow package etc. Tows our 5th just fine.



So what would be a good choice in today's world? No offroad towing is planned.



The worst part is I would probably have to pay someone to put in a new hitch. Getting too old to do it myself.

Originally Posted by JBM3M

Well during my research, I spoke to certified mechanics/technicians. All complained how much trouble these new diesels are. (they did not mention DEF) Gonna stick with my 7.3 with the high altitude tow package....no smoke even at Eisenhower tunnel and I was passing diesel BMW's.

Well if you don't plan on stepping up in 5er size you could go with the 7.3 Godzilla gas engine, and have about the same performance as you do now with a bit of a hit in fuel mileage.

If you replace with a new or newer diesel, you will be checking your mirrors to make sure your current 5er is still back there! The power difference between your 2000's power and tow capacity, and the new breed of diesels is night and day!!

Our first pull with our new to us 2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW, CTD HO/Aisin, and 3.73, compared to the OLD 2001 Ram Laramie 2500 CTD with small chip, and RV275 injectors and 3.55's behind a NV4500 5 speed manual, had me checking the mirrors to be sure our about 13,000# 5er was still back there!!

We bought our 2016 Ram on 12/31/2018 with 27,000 miles, we are currently at 71,000 miles with only normal maintenance.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by jfk69

I’ll ask a simple question..how many of those stock 7.3 turbo diesels can get up to 30 or 40 mph, hammer the skinny pedal, and bust the rear end loose on dry pavement? Exactly none. 440HP and 850 ft lbs of torque is a truly wonderful thing.

A guy I used to work with was telling me how his 2013 Chevy Silverado had beat down his son's Ram 6.7 3/4 ton from a red light one day when they were goofing around. I don't remember what year the son's Ram was but I knew it was all stock. I told him that not all diesels are that slow, that mine would be quicker than that Ram. He got a bit arrogant and asked if I would care to race title for title. He was quite impressed with his 5.3 Silverado I could tell. I politely declined but about three weeks later his truck was at a shop getting a bed cover installed and he needed a ride to pick it up that afternoon and I took him across town. At one red light I put the 6 speed transmission in manual and shifted to third gear, My truck has a Banks Power programmer and has instant throttle response along with the 510 hp and 1065 ft/lbs of torque, and when the light turned green we left sideways and slammed the next two gears. The look on his face told it all.

The next day at work he said, "Damn, I would have lost my title"! I just grinned.

[flybouy]

I've said it before but I'll predicate this with the same statement. For me a new truck isn't in my future, especially in this market. It's a personal choice based on trailer, usefulness and condition of current truck, etc. That doesn’t mean the deisre isn't there, but then again I'm the type that desires an 80' yacht with a helicopter and a private jet at the airport. Now that that's out of the way,

Anyone that makes a statement like "I'd never own a truck that requires DEF" likely falls into one of 2 categories. First - sour grapes. If I can't get one it's because they are no good. Second - ignorance. They just don't understand or haven't done any honest evaluation of the newest diesel trucks and their statistics including failure rates.

Oh, I guess there is a third catagory. The "Everything older is better" crowd. If you are in that crowd then ignore this post, turn on your vacuum tube 19" RCA TV and pop in a Betamax tape of Mad Max.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Anyone that makes a statement like "I'd never own a truck that requires DEF" likely falls into one of 2 categories. First - sour grapes. If I can't get one it's because they are no good. Second - ignorance. They just don't understand or haven't done any honest evaluation of the newest diesel trucks and their statistics including failure rates.

Oh, I guess there is a third catagory. The "Everything older is better" crowd. If you are in that crowd then ignore this post, turn on your vacuum tube 19" RCA TV and pop in a Betamax tape of Mad Max.

I'm sure I fit in there somewhere back in the day, but my eyes have been opened and I'm glad! Honestly, when the 7.3 Powerstroke came out I didn't think there was much improvement to be made. And just test driving one of the newer (2011 and up) trucks really shows you nothing. Until you strap a load on, and I mean a LOAD! You just won't get the seat of the pants feel for what these trucks are all about.

My last gasser truck was a 1989 Chevy 3/4 ton with a 350 and a 5 speed and it had a whopping 185 hp and maybe as much torque and it sounded like I was gonna blow it up towing a Massey Ferguson 240 and various farm equipment. Somebody talked me into a 98 Chevy 3/4 ton with the lowly 6.5 TD and behold, I came to understand what low end torque was all about. Then onward to Ford's use of the Navistar 7.3 TD and I was all in. Haven't looked back.....Still have that old 98 6.5 TD down on my brother's farm. It's got over 300K miles on it now and still pulls horse trailers. A friend talked me out of the 7.3 and since I got the 6.7 I didn't drive it very much. It was probably the most trouble free vehicle I had owned, up until what I have now anyway. I think the new Ford gassers with the 7.3 make about the same hp and torque as the old 7.3 TD did with a chip maybe.

[wiredgeorge]

Well... been called a dinosaur, heard about super-fast pickup trucks and now know everybody's favorite brand of truck. My clunker is PAID FOR and does what I bought it for. It doesn't smoke or stink of make a lot of noise. I have never had the urge to race it against some other vehicle but it does pull my little 5ver just fine and did I mention, IT IS PAID FOR and I have not once had the urge to compare it to someone other member's truck. These threads can get downright annoying.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

I have never had the urge to race it against some other vehicle but it does pull my little 5ver just fine and did I mention, IT IS PAID FOR and I have not once had the urge to compare it to someone other member's truck. These threads can get downright annoying.

Nobody's knocking anyone's truck here George. It's just nice that technology has made it possible for these engines to make a lot more power in the last 10 or so years. I do love performance though and I guess it's an affliction that runs in the family. Here's a couple of trucks one of my cousins built. Why? I don't know. Just because.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gastk7-eJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh1by2mS1yo

[jfk69]

Lol. No one bagged on your truck George. I can certainly appreciate the paid for aspect. Owing no one is a great feeling. I’m also a guy that keeps vehicles for a minimum of ten years. My commuter vehicle is a 2011 Mariner with 243,000 and change on the odometer.