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Old 04-18-2022, 05:35 PM   #1
tacotacotaco
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Question about changing batteries

New RV owner here. Eventual plan is to upgrade the solar so I can boondock a bit more robustly but want to get out on the road first, make sure it's an RV I'm going to stick with for a long time, maybe wait a year as I am told by the dealer that drilling into the roof voids the warranty on it.

I know that for the solar I will need an inverter and myriad other equipment for the infrastructure, and I plan on hiring somebody to do all that. My question is: for now can I get a little extra time living on DC power off shore charge by putting in some LiFePO4 batteries? Is there anything else that needs to be done regarding wiring, controller, etc? Or is it just as simple as switching out the batteries? Is this something worth doing or better to wait?
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Old 04-18-2022, 05:38 PM   #2
Javi
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Originally Posted by tacotacotaco View Post
New RV owner here. Eventual plan is to upgrade the solar so I can boondock a bit more robustly but want to get out on the road first, make sure it's an RV I'm going to stick with for a long time, maybe wait a year as I am told by the dealer that drilling into the roof voids the warranty on it.

I know that for the solar I will need an inverter and myriad other equipment for the infrastructure, and I plan on hiring somebody to do all that. My question is: for now can I get a little extra time living on DC power off shore charge by putting in some LiFePO4 batteries? Is there anything else that needs to be done regarding wiring, controller, etc? Or is it just as simple as switching out the batteries? Is this something worth doing or better to wait?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAEaDTTuqrUY5UeII6x7i4A
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Old 04-18-2022, 05:51 PM   #3
TimC
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Originally Posted by tacotacotaco View Post
New RV owner here. Eventual plan is to upgrade the solar so I can boondock a bit more robustly but want to get out on the road first, make sure it's an RV I'm going to stick with for a long time, maybe wait a year as I am told by the dealer that drilling into the roof voids the warranty on it.

I know that for the solar I will need an inverter and myriad other equipment for the infrastructure, and I plan on hiring somebody to do all that. My question is: for now can I get a little extra time living on DC power off shore charge by putting in some LiFePO4 batteries? Is there anything else that needs to be done regarding wiring, controller, etc? Or is it just as simple as switching out the batteries? Is this something worth doing or better to wait?
There are lots of benefits to lithium over lead acid. One of them being you can use more of the capacity of the battery without damaging them. For example, it is recommended to use only 50% of a lead acid battery’s capacity. For lithium you can use 90%. So if you get a 100ah battery you really shouldn’t use more than 50ah for lead acid where you could easily use 90ah on lithium.

Another benefit is they charge much faster provided you have a proper charger.

Downside is the upfront cost and you will likely need to swap out the converter in your rv with a lithium compatible charger.

In my opinion there are many reasons to go lithium over lead acid. But, if you’re planning some bigger upgrades in the future it might be better to wait until you have a better idea of what you want to do. Lithium is expensive up front, so it would suck to get a year down the road and realize that those expensive batteries no longer fit with your plans.
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Old 04-18-2022, 05:53 PM   #4
tacotacotaco
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAEaDTTuqrUY5UeII6x7i4A
Thanks this is a great resource.
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Old 04-18-2022, 05:57 PM   #5
tacotacotaco
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There are lots of benefits to lithium over lead acid. One of them being you can use more of the capacity of the battery without damaging them. For example, it is recommended to use only 50% of a lead acid battery’s capacity. For lithium you can use 90%. So if you get a 100ah battery you really shouldn’t use more than 50ah for lead acid where you could easily use 90ah on lithium.

Another benefit is they charge much faster provided you have a proper charger.

Downside is the upfront cost and you will likely need to swap out the converter in your rv with a lithium compatible charger.

In my opinion there are many reasons to go lithium over lead acid. But, if you’re planning some bigger upgrades in the future it might be better to wait until you have a better idea of what you want to do. Lithium is expensive up front, so it would suck to get a year down the road and realize that those expensive batteries no longer fit with your plans.
I see what you're saying. I'm fairly certain I will want lithium batteries but it sounds like I'd also be investing in the charger when I may be springing for an inverter/charger for the solar in a year anyway. Maybe best to wait then until I'm sure.
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Old 04-18-2022, 06:13 PM   #6
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You can go with a couple golf cart batteries for now
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Old 04-18-2022, 06:17 PM   #7
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I immediately installed solar on our roof. That was 5 years ago, absolutely no problems with the roof and the addition of the solar was our best modification. I suggest you don’t wait.
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Old 04-18-2022, 06:46 PM   #8
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I see what you're saying. I'm fairly certain I will want lithium batteries but it sounds like I'd also be investing in the charger when I may be springing for an inverter/charger for the solar in a year anyway. Maybe best to wait then until I'm sure.
Think through your energy consumption as well. What do you want to power? How long will you need to power it? Etc. That way you can start to get an idea of how much battery capacity you’ll want, how much solar you’ll want to recharge that, and how big of an inverter you’ll want.

It’s good to think through this a little. Even if you stick with lithium, will the form factor work for where you ultimately want the batteries stored? Are you going to want 200ah vs 100ah? Low temp protection vs no low temp protection (usually cheaper)?

It’d maybe be a waste of money to buy a converter now and replace with an inverter charger next year. But would be worse to decide in a year that you should’ve got a different lithium battery and either have to start over or not get the system you want.

I love my system with my lithium, but I had a few years of lead acid just figuring out what I wanted to power before I built my first system. Also, using the lead acid for a while makes you really appreciate the lithium when you have it. Sooooo much better!
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Old 04-18-2022, 06:51 PM   #9
tacotacotaco
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I immediately installed solar on our roof. That was 5 years ago, absolutely no problems with the roof and the addition of the solar was our best modification. I suggest you don’t wait.
I'm certain I'll get impatient and pull the trigger sooner rather than later.
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Old 04-18-2022, 07:29 PM   #10
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Think through your energy consumption as well. What do you want to power? How long will you need to power it? Etc. That way you can start to get an idea of how much battery capacity you’ll want, how much solar you’ll want to recharge that, and how big of an inverter you’ll want.
I've purchased one of those power watchdogs with EPS since I needed a surge protector anyway and this can show me my energy consumption over a 24 hour period.
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Old 04-19-2022, 12:44 AM   #11
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I've purchased one of those power watchdogs with EPS since I needed a surge protector anyway and this can show me my energy consumption over a 24 hour period.
I also have a PowerWatchdog and it does track energy consumption. But it tracks AC, not DC. While the AC does get converted to DC to keep the batteries charged and to power the DC loads, you still have no idea how much DC you’re using. For that, you need a different set of monitoring devices so you can see what your DC consumption really is.
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Old 04-19-2022, 03:06 AM   #12
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I've purchased one of those power watchdogs with EPS since I needed a surge protector anyway and this can show me my energy consumption over a 24 hour period.
Tracking power consumption is a good idea. As Joe said you’ll want to track the DC side. You can do that with something like a Victron smartshunt.

I think it will be more important though to understand what it is you’ll want to run when you’re off grid and for how long. You then do some testing using the shunt to see how much power that uses. Add up the consumption of everything and use that information to start estimating the size of the system.

It might also be worth taking a step back and discussing at a high level what you hope to get out of this system before starting. For example, sounds like you might be thinking you’ll ultimately end up with a system that makes it feel as if you’re plugged into shore power even when off grid (based on comments of using watchdog to track power). But, once you get into it you will likely find that you will have to significantly compromise on your power consumption even with lithium and solar. So, what are your expectations? What would you like your future system to be able to do?
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Old 04-19-2022, 06:40 AM   #13
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TimC brings up a valid point. You simply can't rely on "inverted battery power" to operate any RV with the same level of power use that you enjoy while connected to shore power. I suppose you "can" if your wallet is so thick you need a separate trailer to drag that cash behind your trailer, but for most people, that's not only impractical, it's foolish....

Battleborn addressed one aspect of "battery power vs shore power" this way"

For example, a 100 Ah lithium battery will power a typical 15,000 BTU RV AC unit for about 30 minutes. If you’re RVing in hot weather, running your AC for 30 minutes likely won’t do much to increase your comfort. However, if you had a bank of eight 100 Ah batteries, it would run for about four hours.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/run-...20four%20hours.

When you consider that a single battery costs around $1000, then the cost of battery power to run an RV air conditioner for 4 hours would be around $8000. To run it for 8 hours, $16,000. And that doesn't include the cost of the solar system to recharge those batteries....

So, attempting to run a trailer on battery power, for almost everyone, will require some significant "soul searching" to determine exactly what is required, what can be turned off when on battery power and just how hot it can get before we break out the generator to run the air conditioner because we can't justify $30K for a "DC power system and solar system to operate it full time"...

Most people "compromise on resources" when dry camping. Fewer showers (limited water and limited gray tank space), fewer lights, more cooked meals rather than microwaved meals, less TV, no A/C and no fireplace/electric heaters"....

So, take stock on what you "can't live without" and what you "don't need to be comfortable" and make a list of the amount of power you'll use, the amount of money you can spend and then "mesh the two to reach your desired system"... If you can justify that expense, great, but for most, there's a significant cost that can't be justified to even attempt to "dry camp on the weekends with all the electrical equipment we have at home."
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Old 04-19-2022, 08:51 AM   #14
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All good advice.

I use my smart shunt to make sure I have enough power to run the heater occasionally, or whatever, overnight. I can start the generator up or wait until the next day after solar has contributed to the recharging.
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Old 04-28-2022, 07:13 AM   #15
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I bought two 100AH LifePo4 batteries. You can get them for under $500 each. These are the ones I bought. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

All I had to buy with them was a new charger, get a high output one.

We can go about 6 or 7 days with very limited electric use (no AC, no microwave) and if we want to Boondock for longer I pull out my generator and recharge them. (dual power generator, so it can run off propane.)

Get a battery monitor for sure, you'll learn quickly what to do and what not to do.
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Old 05-29-2022, 09:11 PM   #16
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Another thing to consider is that not all 120-volt devices are even connected to the inverter. I can only speak for my trailer with the solar package as factory installed. But the inverter only supplies 120-volt power to receptacles in the bedroom on either side of the bed, two (of three) in the kitchen, TV and exterior. I believe those receptacles are all on the same circuit. The microwave, fireplace heater, A/C, bathroom receptacle, recliner functions (heat, massage, and light), and two other receptacles in the kitchen/living area are not connected to or powered by the inverter. The 12-volt systems work the same as units without solar, they draw power from the batteries not the inverter. So, adding a boat load of battery capacity may not accomplish what you are wanting to do or thinking would happen. More/bigger batteries will certainly add life to your 12-volt systems but not necessarily to all of the 120-volt devices. So before you jump in and add costly batteries, I would recommend taking some time understanding how your particular system operates and go from there. Good luck with your new TT!
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Old 05-30-2022, 08:39 AM   #17
GHen
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Question about changing batteries

Just takes a upgraded transfer switch to have all outlets powered by the inverter. (You still can’t use the AIr conditioner very long without a massive system)

FYI, in my system, 2 bowls of oatmeal in the microwave for 100 seconds each and 2 cups of coffee in Single cup Keurig only consumed 11.7 amps in my draw down tests. Not sure why some people say they can’t use the microwave with the inverter. Just need a 2000+ inverter and a sufficient battery bank. I use about 50 amps per day, easy to handle with 200amphour battery bank. Lithium or lead acid, doesn’t matter.
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Old 05-30-2022, 04:15 PM   #18
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I was interested in the lithium batteries which cost a lot and have many benefits. I instead went with two six volt batteries from Costco with the plan of replacing them later. Well three years later I found that I don’t have a need for my camping to upgrade to lithium or solar. It all depends on how you camp and how much you want to spend.
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Old 06-01-2022, 03:48 AM   #19
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Another thing to consider is that not all 120-volt devices are even connected to the inverter. I can only speak for my trailer with the solar package as factory installed. But the inverter only supplies 120-volt power to receptacles in the bedroom on either side of the bed, two (of three) in the kitchen, TV and exterior. I believe those receptacles are all on the same circuit. The microwave, fireplace heater, A/C, bathroom receptacle, recliner functions (heat, massage, and light), and two other receptacles in the kitchen/living area are not connected to or powered by the inverter. The 12-volt systems work the same as units without solar, they draw power from the batteries not the inverter. So, adding a boat load of battery capacity may not accomplish what you are wanting to do or thinking would happen. More/bigger batteries will certainly add life to your 12-volt systems but not necessarily to all of the 120-volt devices. So before you jump in and add costly batteries, I would recommend taking some time understanding how your particular system operates and go from there. Good luck with your new TT!
In my case I've figured this out a bit later in the process. But will probably look at rewiring some of my trailer in the future. I'm in the final stretch of the never ending solar/inverter install...tested the inverter yesterday and 2 outlets that I 'thought' were on the circuit are not. It will suffice for now but the next mod will be to figure out a better "solar circuit" as I don't think it was well thought out.

Now waiting for a new zamp 60A solar controller (upgraded for the bluetooth...and they think it is defective as the bluetooth won't connect). Then i torqued down too much on my resettable 250A fuse...broke it so can't connect the inverter to the battery.

My other word for people upgrading their batteries for a "future inverter install" - figure out the inverter size and the battery cables needed. The reason being the 2AWG jumper/connecting cables need to be sized to the inverter and you might as well purchase/make them to that gauge.
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Old 06-01-2022, 06:46 AM   #20
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I really like the idea of solar boondocking we mostly boondock maybe 1 trip a year to a real RV park. Bang for the buck my onan burns about 10 gallons a day which at this point in my area is about 50 bucks a day . I personally cant justify spending what it is required to do what the onan does on a solar setup
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