2022 Cougar 25RDS

[pawpaw]

Wife and I picked this up today. Great couples camper and the Expedition pulls it easily. Hitch needs to be tweaked..noticed some sway between 55-60 mph. Winds today are only in the 10 to 20 mph range and not like yesterday's 40 to 50 mph ones

[gregrc75]

Congrats, enjoy it!

[pawpaw]

Originally Posted by gregrc75

Congrats, enjoy it!

Expedition pulls it easily but the hitch needs some fine tuning. Son in law will stop by after work and look at it. Needs more weight to the front axle. Thanks Greg...wife loves the floorplan.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

Expedition pulls it easily but the hitch needs some fine tuning. Son in law will stop by after work and look at it. Needs more weight to the front axle. Thanks Greg...wife loves the floorplan.

I think the Expedition will struggle to control that size and weight trailer, especially without a wdh with intergal sway control. At 8,800 lb gvw if loaded the hitch weight @15% would be 1,320 lbs. and that doesn’t include the weight of the hitch. That likely will exceed the rating of the hitch .

The "tow rating" doesn’t equate to camper usage as you'll run out of payload and rear axle capacity first.The "empty tongue weight" will never be accurate either as that weight is calculated without a battery, lp tanks empty, and "no options" even if the trailer options are installed in every trailer. Good luck.

[pawpaw]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I think the Expedition will struggle to control that size and weight trailer, especially without a wdh with intergal sway control. At 8,800 lb gvw if loaded the hitch weight @15% would be 1,320 lbs. and that doesn’t include the weight of the hitch. That likely will exceed the rating of the hitch .

The "tow rating" doesn’t equate to camper usage as you'll run out of payload and rear axle capacity first.The "empty tongue weight" will never be accurate either as that weight is calculated without a battery, lp tanks empty, and "no options" even if the trailer options are installed in every trailer. Good luck.

Looked up the payload on the Expy and it shows 1769 lbs. Must be the aluminum body and the mighty mite Ecoboost V-6. Camper is probably around 7500 lbs as she sits. Expy probably in 6500 lb range so its right at the 14000 gross wt limit. I'm sure i'll be legal in Honduras!! Tweaked the Equalizer and added air to my 10 ply BFG's and helped level things out. Took it back out on the road up to 70 mph and its a lot more stable. No tail wagging the dog!! Still can't compare it to the dually and 5th wheel campers I've had but just to mess around on short trips its not too bad. Only cruise at 62 mph and retired so not in a big hurry anymore.

[sourdough]

I've not said anything but from my perch;

Ford Expedition - people hauler, grocery getter, soft suspension etc. etc. I couldn't and wouldn't tow an 8800 lb. trailer with anything like it.

Camper is in "probably" xxx weight range and the Expedition is " probably" in the 6500 range. Isn't the dry weight of the Expedition somewhere in the 6100 lb. weight range? People, gear, toys, hitch etc......6500 sure sounds light OR a very light weight tow vehicle.

A wdh is mandatory and then, IMO, isn't going to compensate for the TVs shortcomings. Those are my opinions and if you think it's "just fine" then you haven't had a "holy cow" moment.....yet. Good luck but I'd be getting me a real tow vehicle.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

Looked up the payload on the Expy and it shows 1769 lbs. Must be the aluminum body and the mighty mite Ecoboost V-6. Camper is probably around 7500 lbs as she sits. Expy probably in 6500 lb range so its right at the 14000 gross wt limit. I'm sure i'll be legal in Honduras!! Tweaked the Equalizer and added air to my 10 ply BFG's and helped level things out. Took it back out on the road up to 70 mph and its a lot more stable. No tail wagging the dog!! Still can't compare it to the dually and 5th wheel campers I've had but just to mess around on short trips its not too bad. Only cruise at 62 mph and retired so not in a big hurry anymore.

Not sure how you look up payload on an Expedition as each one configured a bit differently will have a different payload. Your payload placard is in your driver door frame and tells you SPECIFICLLY what payload capacity you Ford HAD when it left the factory. I would also suggest some LT tires if you haven't already done so; perhaps at least Load Range E.

[wiredgeorge]

Your actual pin weight based on the camper's gross weight will be in the 1100 lb range. The hitch you have and passengers and stuff in your SUV should then be pretty much ok unless you eat 8 slices of pizza.

Couple things with the new camper... check the tires on your camper and there is a certain brand EVERYONE advises change as quickly as possible. This brand is prone to blowing up and destroying wheel wells. Next suggestion is to buy a TPMS for your camper's tires. You can feel when your SUV's tires start to lose air a lot more readily than your campers. Buy an Electrical Management System (not a surge protector). I use a Progressive that plugs in at the pole but they and the other leading brands have one that can be installed in the camper and monitored with your phone via bluetooth. I have camped at some campground where the electricity issues would have fried the electronics in my camper. A surge protector will not help. Lots of folks who camp also use high end water pressure regulators for maintaining the correct water pressure when on city water. Last, when you camp and leave your trailer and go out of the campground, shut off city water. In a new trailer, there MAY be leaks; usually where the PEX connects and you don't want to come back to flooding.

GOOD LUCK and be safe.

[German Shepherd Guy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Your actual pin weight based on the camper's gross weight will be in the 1100 lb range. The hitch you have and passengers and stuff in your SUV should then be pretty much ok unless you eat 8 slices of pizza.

Couple things with the new camper... check the tires on your camper and there is a certain brand EVERYONE advises change as quickly as possible. This brand is prone to blowing up and destroying wheel wells. Next suggestion is to buy a TPMS for your camper's tires. You can feel when your SUV's tires start to lose air a lot more readily than your campers. Buy an Electrical Management System (not a surge protector). I use a Progressive that plugs in at the pole but they and the other leading brands have one that can be installed in the camper and monitored with your phone via bluetooth. I have camped at some campground where the electricity issues would have fried the electronics in my camper. A surge protector will not help. Lots of folks who camp also use high end water pressure regulators for maintaining the correct water pressure when on city water. Last, when you camp and leave your trailer and go out of the campground, shut off city water. In a new trailer, there MAY be leaks; usually where the PEX connects and you don't want to come back to flooding.

GOOD LUCK and be safe.

What George said !!!!

Welcome to the forum.
I do not have a "high end" water pressure regulator but I do have one.
TPMS< not worth scrimping on.
Welcome!!

[pawpaw]

Thanks!! Had a Keystone Fuzion that we bought in 2014 and traded it in for a Grand Design Solitude that was destroyed during Hurricane Ida. Downsized to a Cougar 25RDS that's plenty big enough for the wife and I. Kids are grown and have their own campers. Sold my dually not thinking we'd get another camper. So now the tow police think I need to get a Kenworth to handle around a 7800 lb. trailer!! My Expedition with the max tow package is rated for 9200 lbs and has a payload of 1769 lbs. Re-adjusted the Equalizer and shifted more weight to the trucks front axle. Like a see-saw game that we had with the toyhauler. I always leave early to get to a campground and keep speed down to the 60-62 mph range. I'm sure you'll get pointers on how to handle your GSD on here also!! Great animals and I've owned a couple over the years myself.

[pawpaw]

Took the camper out on its first trip last week. Went to a state park close to New Orleans and just stayed 2 nights to get use to the camper. Only glitches were from a leaky shower door and latches on the fold up table broke and breakfast ended up on the floor. Whoever designed it gets a zero! Rig towed fine in low winds and camper didn't feel heavy at all accelerating and braking. Weight seems to be dispersed evenly over the 4 axles and didn't notice any swaying.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

Took the camper out on its first trip last week. Went to a state park close to New Orleans and just stayed 2 nights to get use to the camper. Only glitches were from a leaky shower door and latches on the fold up table broke and breakfast ended up on the floor. Whoever designed it gets a zero! Rig towed fine in low winds and camper didn't feel heavy at all accelerating and braking. Weight seems to be dispersed evenly over the 4 axles and didn't notice any swaying.

Saw a picture of your camper in a for-sale ad. That table doesn't appear to be hinged in the U shaped dinette. What latches? Does that table collapse to make a bed (for someone you don't much care for)? How do you like that U shaped dinette? Seems it would be awkward getting around to the rear. I personally removed out standard dinette and replaced with an Ikea table and two chairs (just the two of us). Anyway, glad this camper is working out for you.

[flybouy]

This is a never ending process that folks just never seem to understand. The BS "weight ratings" by both vehichle and trailer manufacturers combined with the BS salesman all telling the unsuspecting customer what they WANT TO HEAR so they'll spend money.

It's a common occurrence on this and on other forums. When presented with reality the often "go to" response to justify their decision is becomes the "we pack light", "we don't go far", "I don't drive fast", "we travel with the tanks empty", and every other unrealistic affirmation they can think of.

In my humble opinion the major issue is controllability. Two major factors effecting control when a light, short wheel base tv pulls a long, heavy camper behing it. Pulling and stopping aren't the two factors although they do contribute to the false securitty of " control" to the driver. Modern tow vehichles have plenty of power and with 4 wheel disc brakes lots of stopping power. It's what happens in between starting and stopping that's the issue.

The 2 forces I'm talking about are leverage and wind, both related but not mutually dependent. Wind, the larger the box the greater the forces of wind are applied. The longer the box the greater the leverage (force vector) applied. Here's some common sense examples. Stick your hand out of the window of a traveling car. With your hand horizontal, then with your open palm facing forward. That's the feeling of increased wind resistance.

Leverage, do to a store and pick up an 8 lb. mual hammer. Hold it beside your body and it's no big deal right? Bet you can do that for hours right? Now take that same hammer in your hand and fully extend your arm. How long can you hold it now? It's the same weight but now the folcrum from the weight to where it's supported has been moved. That's the force multiplier, just like getting a longer handle for a socket to remove a stubborn bolt.

So here's what occures all to often. A tv is outmatched by the trailer. The vehichle pulls it just fine and stops just fine. The driver realizes it's a lot of weight so doesn't zoom around curves, most likely doesn’t drive curvy roads much as they aren't comfortable with the width behind them. These experiences bolster the false confidence that all is well, just like the salesman that bought me a soda and gave my kid a ballon said it would be.

Then one day you find yourself in an unexpected bad situation. You find yourself suddenly exposed to high cross winds. Or you find yourself driving 65 mph and something happens that requires a radical evasive manuver. That force of a weight that's easy to pull and stop now becomes a far greater force at the end of a long lever. It then becomes a far greater force to manage. It's basic physics and common sense.

It's a long explination but I hope it helps someone reading visualize what's happening.

[pawpaw]

What scares me are toyhaulers with super heavy hitch weights being towed by jacked up 3/4 ton diesels pickups that have very little payload. These guys run 75 mph in the rain rolling coal. The exotic ones may even pull a small utility trailer with an extra atv or two with no brakes. Even towing the large and heavy 5th wheels we had with a diesel dually you would get sidewinds that would get your attention. I'd much rather pull a camper with some length and weight on 2 axles then some little teardrop single axle ones. If anyone is scared about the negative aspects of what may happen on the road they should stay home and watch TV!!

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

What scares me are toyhaulers with super heavy hitch weights being towed by jacked up 3/4 ton diesels pickups that have very little payload. These guys run 75 mph in the rain rolling coal. The exotic ones may even pull a small utility trailer with an extra atv or two with no brakes. Even towing the large and heavy 5th wheels we had with a diesel dually you would get sidewinds that would get your attention. I'd much rather pull a camper with some length and weight on 2 axles then some little teardrop single axle ones. If anyone is scared about the negative aspects of what may happen on the road they should stay home and watch TV!!

Well I think there's a definite difference between "being scared of negative aspects" and being aware of reckless stupidity. Mitigating controllable risks are common sense IMO.

[wrvond]

You guys can twist it any way you want. You can list all the aberrant conditions that will lead to whatever conclusion you want to support. You can even continue to misinterpret or change the meaning of my post. It doesn't make my statement any less true.
Of course there is no single item that is the "only thing to worry about" that's why they are called systems. To think otherwise is just plain stupid. And to accuse me of thinking that way is just plain insulting.

"Being able to get up to 70mph is one thing. What happens when you have to try to stop that much weight with your Expedition. Pretty sure the brakes aren’t rated to handle that much weight pushing against the Expy. You’re back to the tail wagging the dog.
__________________
Rick"

This is the statement to which I responded. And the answer remains, a properly set up system will not push the towing vehicle while stopping.

"You can have the controller set as high as possible, but if the brakes themselves aren't properly adjusted that trailer WILL push you through an intersection if you're traveling a bit too fast, BTDT!"
So, driving with improperly adjusted brakes. Did you become an expert on braking systems before, or after you nearly killed someone?

Those who are willing to hear, hear.
I'll not be coming back to this thread because I can see there is no positive outcome possible. The good news is that whether a camper and truck combination with a properly adjusted/set braking system does or does not push or pull on the towing vehicle is simply a point of argument and not a matter of life or death.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by wrvond

You guys can twist it any way you want. You can list all the aberrant conditions that will lead to whatever conclusion you want to support. You can even continue to misinterpret or change the meaning of my post. It doesn't make my statement any less true.
Of course there is no single item that is the "only thing to worry about" that's why they are called systems. To think otherwise is just plain stupid. And to accuse me of thinking that way is just plain insulting.

"Being able to get up to 70mph is one thing. What happens when you have to try to stop that much weight with your Expedition. Pretty sure the brakes aren’t rated to handle that much weight pushing against the Expy. You’re back to the tail wagging the dog.
__________________
Rick"

This is the statement to which I responded. And the answer remains, a properly set up system will not push the towing vehicle while stopping.

"You can have the controller set as high as possible, but if the brakes themselves aren't properly adjusted that trailer WILL push you through an intersection if you're traveling a bit too fast, BTDT!"
So, driving with improperly adjusted brakes. Did you become an expert on braking systems before, or after you nearly killed someone?

Those who are willing to hear, hear.
I'll not be coming back to this thread because I can see there is no positive outcome possible. The good news is that whether a camper and truck combination with a properly adjusted/set braking system does or does not push or pull on the towing vehicle is simply a point of argument and not a matter of life or death.

I have to agree with you on one point, the "Expy" is not enough for the chosen rv, great people mover, grocery getter, it wasn't designed tow heavy trailers with the aero dynamics of a cinder block. Will also agree with pawpaw about being driver error, towing with the "Expy" is probably a very good example!
But do disagree about it only argumentative, check those few videos, I'm sure those drivers had serious thoughts about it being "life or death" & aren't willing to argue about it.

[JRTJH]

The point I was (and AM) making is that way too many people jump behind the wheel of a tow vehicle, hook up a trailer and head out to have fun with NO knowledge other than "the salesman said"....

To say, "A trailer will stop itself if the brake controller is properly adjusted" infers something that just isn't true. It DOES NOT mean that the trailer will stop based on any of hundreds of other reasons that would/could enter into the sequence of events. Hanging a new owner's hat on "the brake controller is the key" (whether it's stated or implied) is not going to help in an emergency.

There is a "system" as stated. That system includes not only the tow vehicle "and all its systems" and the trailer "with all its systems" but also includes the driver and all his systems (from being alert and anticipating problems before they happen to knowing the limitations of his tow vehicle and trailer "systems" as well as the experience to know the difference.....

Many people get in a new vehicle, hitch up the trailer and head off with nothing terrible ever happening. Some of them are alive today because of luck, some because of situations, some just because they didn't encounter anything that destroyed their rig. THEY AREN'T THE ISSUE....

It's those few (one is too many) who injure or kill their family or heaven forbid, someone else's kid or family through thinking "my brake controller is set right, the rest is OK too.....

[flybouy]

I understand where Wrvond is coming from and totally agree when the unit (TV & trailer) are in a straight line. That's not how most accidents happen. In nearly every video John posted it was sway that caused the problem. The rig on the snow/ice covered road appeared to me to be a case of sever understeer. The front tires lost traction and the weight of the truck and trailer pushed the rig forward.

Here's the issue as I see it when an "overloaded or "outclassed" vehichle tows a heavy load. First stopping in a straight line. While there aren't and vector mechanics (in a perfect theoretical world) the tv will be carrying considerably more weight and therefore require a longer stopping distance. If that greater weight is primarily supported by the rear axle then it can create a reduction in the traction of the steer axle reducing control.

Now move to a trailer traveling behind a tow vehichle swaying the force applied by the trailer's momentum will be at an angle in relation to the tow vehicle's line of movement. So even with both vehichles slowing at the exact same rate (good luck with that fine tuning) they will still be traveling in different trajectories. The trailer can push the tow vehichle sufficiently to change it's trajectory and yes size dose matter. The lighter the tv, the shorter the wheel base, the softer the suspension, the greater the sidewall flex of the tires, etc. will all effect the the amount of deflection.

To say ALL the accidents are driver error is true if there is no mechanical failure or unforeseen "act of God". The very first driver error is often being arrogant in operating a setup when the tow vehichle is outmatched with the load it's towing and the driver thinks they can "handle it". Would more driver training stop that? Obviously not for there are many, many professional truck drivers that wreck every day.

[army1rob]

Sorry it was on the first page about the truck stopping the trailer. The reality is these trailers have brakes to stop themselves and these newer vehicles have controllers with instantaneous response times. I was reading down the thread and that one didn’t make any sense to me. Your trailer brakes should help stop the vehicle without dragging rubber. If they don’t you don’t have your gain set right.