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Old 03-29-2021, 02:33 PM   #1
OSS
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Carbon 358 or Raptor 39TS

Hello all, first post. Possibly going to be purchasing a Carbon 358, 38’11 length. Anyone have any experience with the Carbon toyhaulers? It’ll be the 2021 model, but noticed it is a tandem axle. I crunched the math with some numbers and I’ll have about 1,600 lbs left from the (2) 14k axles.

The Raptor on the other hand has 3 axles, but 42ish ft long. Raptor 398TS specifically.

I’ll be towing with a Ford F350 SRW 6.7 diesel. Of course a dually would be great, but couldn’t do it for daily driving. I’ve got the fifth wheel hitch prep and will be getting airbags to stabilize the rear.

Thoughts on if the Raptor would be too much of an upgrade or leave those longer lengths/weight to the dullys. The Carbon seems like it would work well doing the math with my truck. Though I’ve been told I’ll overload the Carbon quick with only tandem axles.

Thanks all, looking forward to learn and be educated on this. Be safe.
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Old 03-29-2021, 02:57 PM   #2
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Axle weight isn't the "first problem to solve"...

That trailer has a GVWR of 17,300 pounds. Pin weight at 20% would be around 3400-3500, add 200 pounds of hitch and you're approaching a pin/hitch weight of roughly 3600-3700 pounds. That won't leave much "passenger/cargo capacity" to any SRW 1 ton truck that I've seen....

You might not want to drive a DRW truck to commute, but you're equally going to have issues attempting to tow a 17,000 pound fifth wheel when you're not commuting to work in a SRW truck.....

If the choice is between this toyhauler and a heavier one, you're going to be in over your head before you tow it off the lot.
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:02 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Axle weight isn't the "first problem to solve"...

That trailer has a GVWR of 17,300 pounds. Pin weight at 20% would be around 3400-3500, add 200 pounds of hitch and you're approaching a pin/hitch weight of roughly 3600-3700 pounds. That won't leave much "passenger/cargo capacity" to any SRW 1 ton truck that I've seen....

You might not want to drive a DRW truck to commute, but you're equally going to have issues attempting to tow a 17,000 pound fifth wheel when you're not commuting to work in a SRW truck.....

If the choice is between this toyhauler and a heavier one, you're going to be in over your head before you tow it off the lot.
Thank you for the reply. Trust me, if I could I would have both. But for my purposes, I got the SRW and that’s what I have. So you’re saying even the Carbon 358 will not work. Which will completely eliminate the Raptor then.

I’ll probably look at a different manufacturer company then. Maybe a lighter entry level model. Prob won’t have a garage attached.
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OSS View Post
Hello all, first post. Possibly going to be purchasing a Carbon 358, 38’11 length. Anyone have any experience with the Carbon toyhaulers? It’ll be the 2021 model, but noticed it is a tandem axle. I crunched the math with some numbers and I’ll have about 1,600 lbs left from the (2) 14k axles.

The Raptor on the other hand has 3 axles, but 42ish ft long. Raptor 398TS specifically.

I’ll be towing with a Ford F350 SRW 6.7 diesel. Of course a dually would be great, but couldn’t do it for daily driving. I’ve got the fifth wheel hitch prep and will be getting airbags to stabilize the rear.

Thoughts on if the Raptor would be too much of an upgrade or leave those longer lengths/weight to the dullys. The Carbon seems like it would work well doing the math with my truck. Though I’ve been told I’ll overload the Carbon quick with only tandem axles.

Thanks all, looking forward to learn and be educated on this. Be safe.
Welcome to the Forum! ..what’s the gvwr of your srw?..looks like John already has it figured out
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:10 PM   #5
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Welcome to the Forum! ..what’s the gvwr of your srw?..looks like John already has it figured out
It is 11,500 if I’m not mistaken
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:16 PM   #6
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It is 11,500 if I’m not mistaken
Well there are quite a few guys on here that are really really knowledgeable on towing and being overloaded..you already met one above ..listen to them and they will steer you straight ..they have no interest other then making sure you and your family are safe..I think with that gvwr your going to be really upside down on the numbers but you can find other trailers. You may want to consider a TT toy hauler or just a regular fifth wheel..post the payload sticker from inside your door jam on the truck..they can let you know how much you could safety tow
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Old 03-29-2021, 03:24 PM   #7
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Well there are quite a few guys on here that are really really knowledgeable on towing and being overloaded..you already met one above ..listen to them and they will steer you straight ..they have no interest other then making sure you and your family are safe..I think with that gvwr your going to be really upside down on the numbers but you can find other trailers. You may want to consider a TT toy hauler or just a regular fifth wheel..post the payload sticker from inside your door jam on the truck..they can let you know how much you could safety tow

Much appreciated and understandable! I’m sure a wealth of knowledge across this forum.
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Old 03-29-2021, 07:38 PM   #8
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It’s not about how much you can drag down the road, it’s about how much weight you can put IN the truck. Look at your tag for the truck GVWR, go to the local scale with everything you would have in the truck for a camping trip. Use sand bags if you need to simulate people or equipment.

Take the scale weight and subtract that from the GVWR and that will tell you how much tongue/pin weight you can legally carry. I’m not going to get into a “the manufacturer’s built in a safety margin, so you can go over by XX%” discussion.

I see lots of trucks towing way more trailer than they are rated for, and I think to myself, I hope they don’t get into an accident and more importantly nobody is injured or worse. In the end it’s your choice, but there are lots of people on the roads these days and they have no respect for a person towing a trailer, big or small when they decide they need to cut you off to make an exit or merge into traffic.

No such thing as too much truck IMO...rant over.
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Old 03-30-2021, 04:27 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by OSS View Post
Hello all, first post. Possibly going to be purchasing a Carbon 358, 38’11 length. Anyone have any experience with the Carbon toyhaulers? It’ll be the 2021 model, but noticed it is a tandem axle. I crunched the math with some numbers and I’ll have about 1,600 lbs left from the (2) 14k axles.

The Raptor on the other hand has 3 axles, but 42ish ft long. Raptor 398TS specifically.

I’ll be towing with a Ford F350 SRW 6.7 diesel. Of course a dually would be great, but couldn’t do it for daily driving. I’ve got the fifth wheel hitch prep and will be getting airbags to stabilize the rear.

Thoughts on if the Raptor would be too much of an upgrade or leave those longer lengths/weight to the dullys. The Carbon seems like it would work well doing the math with my truck. Though I’ve been told I’ll overload the Carbon quick with only tandem axles.

Thanks all, looking forward to learn and be educated on this. Be safe.
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It is 11,500 if I’m not mistaken
Well it would be helpful if you would share the year of you TV and the listed payload on the Yellow and white Payload sticker on the drivers door post.
I will assume older than 2020 as I believe that was the year that Ford made frame improvements and up the GVWR. With a 11,500# GVWR depending on trim you could have maybe a payload of 3,600#. just check the specs on the two you have chosen.

Carbon 358TS
Shipping weight 12,742#
Payload 4,258#
Dry Hitch 3,175# (18.6% of dry weight)

Raptor 398TS
Shipping weight 15,293#
Payload 3,707#
Dry hitch 3,690# (24% of dry weight)

If you want a big toy, you need something big to carry it. If you add a in bed fuel tank hitch, passengers in the TV, anything else, you will likely pushing even the weight capacity of the tires.
Your statement "Of course a dually would be great, but couldn’t do it for daily driving.", what is the issue? Do you have to park in a parking garage? DRW is just a bit wider, it is the same length, and might be not as tall as a SRW. DW and I daily drive a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Crew Cab. Sure would be nice to know what you carry in the TV as part of travel.
Load up your truck with the family, and full fuel tanks and head to the scales, and get the current weight of your truck, you might be supprised how little payload you have left of what is on the Yellow sticker.
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Old 03-30-2021, 04:41 AM   #10
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You have been given good advice above. One more thing, keep the triple axle idea that it carries more weight out of your mind. Not true. Our DRV is 20k and has two 9k axles and 17.5 rubber. Many, many larger RV’s have 2 axles.
Man, step on out, get a dually and just relax.
You’ll be glad you did.
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Old 03-30-2021, 05:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by OSS View Post
Hello all, first post. Possibly going to be purchasing a Carbon 358, 38’11 length. Anyone have any experience with the Carbon toyhaulers? It’ll be the 2021 model, but noticed it is a tandem axle. I crunched the math with some numbers and I’ll have about 1,600 lbs left from the (2) 14k axles.

The Raptor on the other hand has 3 axles, but 42ish ft long. Raptor 398TS specifically.

I’ll be towing with a Ford F350 SRW 6.7 diesel. Of course a dually would be great, but couldn’t do it for daily driving. I’ve got the fifth wheel hitch prep and will be getting airbags to stabilize the rear.

Thoughts on if the Raptor would be too much of an upgrade or leave those longer lengths/weight to the dullys. The Carbon seems like it would work well doing the math with my truck. Though I’ve been told I’ll overload the Carbon quick with only tandem axles.

Thanks all, looking forward to learn and be educated on this. Be safe.
What is the year on your Ford? I’m 300 pounds lighter on the tongue weight with my impact and 16,500 for the camper. I have been grossly overloaded and 700 pounds over 11,500 gross vehicle weight my truck. That was the only number I was over People claim it’s for tax purposes. I believe it’s a sales pitch not saying DOT will not enforce this or a lawyer for accident. Well with in my tire specs and axles GVWR . There again I’m the guy that pulled the same rig with up graded rims and tires on my 2500 13 Duramax for a couple years. I felt The 2500 was as safe as the newer 3500.
Newer 3500 I have now.
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Old 03-30-2021, 11:42 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Well it would be helpful if you would share the year of you TV and the listed payload on the Yellow and white Payload sticker on the drivers door post.
I will assume older than 2020 as I believe that was the year that Ford made frame improvements and up the GVWR. With a 11,500# GVWR depending on trim you could have maybe a payload of 3,600#. just check the specs on the two you have chosen.

Carbon 358TS
Shipping weight 12,742#
Payload 4,258#
Dry Hitch 3,175# (18.6% of dry weight)

Raptor 398TS
Shipping weight 15,293#
Payload 3,707#
Dry hitch 3,690# (24% of dry weight)

If you want a big toy, you need something big to carry it. If you add a in bed fuel tank hitch, passengers in the TV, anything else, you will likely pushing even the weight capacity of the tires.
Your statement "Of course a dually would be great, but couldn’t do it for daily driving.", what is the issue? Do you have to park in a parking garage? DRW is just a bit wider, it is the same length, and might be not as tall as a SRW. DW and I daily drive a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW Crew Cab. Sure would be nice to know what you carry in the TV as part of travel.
Load up your truck with the family, and full fuel tanks and head to the scales, and get the current weight of your truck, you might be supprised how little payload you have left of what is on the Yellow sticker.
I upgraded to a dually for much the reasons everyone is mentioning when hauling a toyhauler. I had a SRW 3500 Diesel and yes, it towed the trailer and all seemed fine. But too close to the max's just left me uneasy. I have friends who started out in spec but quickly bought one of these and one of those and then busted an axle. I asked what's your fully loaded weight. They didn't know anymore as they only weighed it once. I went to the dually and drive it every day and everywhere. Took me a week or two to get used to the extra "Plump" fenders in back and moderate increase in length but I have to say with the surround camera systems and parking sensors I can put this truck "almost " anywhere first attempt. But to each there own.
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Old 03-30-2021, 01:36 PM   #13
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OSS
I too had a SRW Ford F-350 with a payload of 11,500# I also had a Carbon 347 similar to the one you are inquiring on.

First the Carbon: Great built toy hauler. We really enjoyed ours. Everything had worked well after our purchase. It may not have all the "bling" of a Raptor, but you can add those items at a later date if desired. We did a lot of upgrades to ours.

Second the Truck: I was within 100# of my max payload on the Ford depending how I loaded the Carbon. The truck would definitely pull the Carbon. I soon purchased a Ford F-350 and never looked back. Towing experience was great. I now don't have to worry about where to place weight on the RV. Most 5th wheel toy haulers have a huge pin weight, and why most people tow them with a DRW. Just adding to the answers!
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Old 03-30-2021, 02:18 PM   #14
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OSS
I too had a SRW Ford F-350 with a payload of 11,500# I also had a Carbon 347 similar to the one you are inquiring on.

First the Carbon: Great built toy hauler. We really enjoyed ours. Everything had worked well after our purchase. It may not have all the "bling" of a Raptor, but you can add those items at a later date if desired. We did a lot of upgrades to ours.

Second the Truck: I was within 100# of my max payload on the Ford depending how I loaded the Carbon. The truck would definitely pull the Carbon. I soon purchased a Ford F-350 and never looked back. Towing experience was great. I now don't have to worry about where to place weight on the RV. Most 5th wheel toy haulers have a huge pin weight, and why most people tow them with a DRW. Just adding to the answers!
I don't think your payload would've been 11500lbs, the GVWR of the truck maybe, there is a difference in the 2 numbers. The payload from the yellow/white drivers door sticker wouldn't be that much, closer to 4500-5500lbs.
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Old 03-30-2021, 02:46 PM   #15
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Old 03-30-2021, 03:21 PM   #16
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I don't think your payload would've been 11500lbs, the GVWR of the truck maybe, there is a difference in the 2 numbers. The payload from the yellow/white drivers door sticker wouldn't PO be that much, closer to 4500-5500lbs.
Danny, if you are going to correct someone correct them correctly. MickLittle stated he had a SRW 3500 with a payload of 11,500#, simple error, I saw it as GVWR.
My point is that then you stated that his payload was likely closer to 4,500 to 5,500#, that isn’t the case with an 11,500# GVWR, closer to 3,300# to 3,800#. The newer one ton SRW with 12,300# to 12,400# GVWR can get to about 4,400# if a 4x2.
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Old 03-30-2021, 04:53 PM   #17
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Danny, if you are going to correct someone correct them correctly. MickLittle stated he had a SRW 3500 with a payload of 11,500#, simple error, I saw it as GVWR.
My point is that then you stated that his payload was likely closer to 4,500 to 5,500#, that isn’t the case with an 11,500# GVWR, closer to 3,300# to 3,800#. The newer one ton SRW with 12,300# to 12,400# GVWR can get to about 4,400# if a 4x2.
SORRY! I'll quit butting in!!!
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