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Old 09-12-2021, 05:09 PM   #1
CChambers
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32BHS Maiden Tow

Finally picked the new rig up this weekend. The printed sheet off here helped tremendously and so did my months of research of different models and the last 30 days or so deep digging into this exact model. The 'tech' was ok, very nice but not a ton of knowledge. Explained 2 or 3 things to him that they changed on this model due to recalls and changes.

Found one cracked side of the half bath door frame, a pretty good nick/chunk taken out of the wardrobe slide fascia and apparently they don't caulk the top of the shower stalls anymore . Overall, we are very happy with it.

We also added slide toppers and the 2nd AC unit.

One question- I am using the Andersen Ultimate and I used their measurement guide to determine which position to set the adapter. It pulls well and I have 2 1/2 to 3' between bumper and front wall of the camper. In the photos I took, it looks as if the nose of the fifth wheel is pretty far back. It does have a pretty long pin box so maybe that is throwing me off. Do any of you have knowledge with the half tons and the Andersen Hitch? With the longer pin box, should I go with a standard fifth wheel receiver? Will it change anything? Thanks.

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Old 09-12-2021, 05:37 PM   #2
sourdough
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I'll just jump in because those long view photos don't tell me a lot. That is a short bed F 250 per signature. The pic seems to show the nose of the trailer/pin box way back.

You can adjust the Andersen at the ball in the bed and with the adapter on the pin. It looks to me like you have everything set to the back which doesn't do you much good.

Your trailer is 11,500lb. gvw equating to approx. 2415lb. pin weight at 21%. What does the payload sticker inside the driver door say on the 3/4 diesel?

The Andersen is an excellent hitch IMO and has done me right for many thousands of miles with zero issues. I would surely look into how you have yours set up - it should work fine for you from what I can see/know.
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Old 09-12-2021, 05:51 PM   #3
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I'll just jump in because those long view photos don't tell me a lot. That is a short bed F 250 per signature. The pic seems to show the nose of the trailer/pin box way back.

You can adjust the Andersen at the ball in the bed and with the adapter on the pin. It looks to me like you have everything set to the back which doesn't do you much good.

Your trailer is 11,500lb. gvw equating to approx. 2415lb. pin weight at 21%. What does the payload sticker inside the driver door say on the 3/4 diesel?

The Andersen is an excellent hitch IMO and has done me right for many thousands of miles with zero issues. I would surely look into how you have yours set up - it should work fine for you from what I can see/know.

Payload is 2171 lbs. Advertised pin weight is 1570 lbs., which is what I ran all my numbers off of. How does your math add another 900ish lbs. of pin weight when fully loaded? Does the longer pin box adjust the math to a smaller percentage? Their 1570 pin weight is closer to 17% of dry weight which would mean loaded pin weight of 1955.

I understand they are trying to sell a camper and they will do anything to accomplish that. I could see a few lbs. difference but 400 lbs.?

I think I will try to reverse the coupler to position 2 and see what it does to my turning radius and my clearances.
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Old 09-12-2021, 06:12 PM   #4
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That looks way back in the bed. Does the pinbox clear the tailgate as your turn? Reversing the red adapter can give you more clearance. I expect you will be amazed at the pin weight once you run it over the scales.
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Old 09-12-2021, 06:23 PM   #5
CChambers
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That looks way back in the bed. Does the pinbox clear the tailgate as your turn? Reversing the red adapter can give you more clearance. I expect you will be amazed at the pin weight once you run it over the scales.
I was fighting daylight to get it home. I did make one decent U-turn and it turned just fine. However, I need to test out my 90* turns and all. Tomorrow or Tuesday I am taking it to a large parking area up the road and practice some maneuvers to see what the deal is. I will test out both coupler positions and report back.
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Old 09-12-2021, 07:03 PM   #6
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Payload is 2171 lbs. Advertised pin weight is 1570 lbs., which is what I ran all my numbers off of. How does your math add another 900ish lbs. of pin weight when fully loaded? Does the longer pin box adjust the math to a smaller percentage? Their 1570 pin weight is closer to 17% of dry weight which would mean loaded pin weight of 1955.

I understand they are trying to sell a camper and they will do anything to accomplish that. I could see a few lbs. difference but 400 lbs.?

I think I will try to reverse the coupler to position 2 and see what it does to my turning radius and my clearances.

You have been deceived by sales marketing. "Dry weights" and "dry pin weights" do not exist. When you add propane or a battery those numbers vanished not to mention what you are going to add (have to add) to the trailer to make it useable. Established numbers for pin weight estimation are 20-25% of gvw. I run 21% of my scaled weight. Position of the pin in your bed will not do a thing for the weight it drops in there but will surely affect what's happening with the truck including handling and ride. Your hitch appears to be set up wrong.
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Old 09-12-2021, 07:53 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by CChambers View Post
Payload is 2171 lbs. Advertised pin weight is 1570 lbs., which is what I ran all my numbers off of. How does your math add another 900ish lbs. of pin weight when fully loaded? Does the longer pin box adjust the math to a smaller percentage? Their 1570 pin weight is closer to 17% of dry weight which would mean loaded pin weight of 1955.

I understand they are trying to sell a camper and they will do anything to accomplish that. I could see a few lbs. difference but 400 lbs.?

I think I will try to reverse the coupler to position 2 and see what it does to my turning radius and my clearances.
Just FYI!
Al the advertised published weights are always extremely lightweight compared to real world numbers.
I'd bet $$ the numbers mentioned from other members are much closer to accurate than any you may have calculated from any advertised numbers.
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Old 09-12-2021, 08:10 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by CChambers View Post
Payload is 2171 lbs. Advertised pin weight is 1570 lbs., which is what I ran all my numbers off of. How does your math add another 900ish lbs. of pin weight when fully loaded? Does the longer pin box adjust the math to a smaller percentage? Their 1570 pin weight is closer to 17% of dry weight which would mean loaded pin weight of 1955.

I understand they are trying to sell a camper and they will do anything to accomplish that. I could see a few lbs. difference but 400 lbs.?

I think I will try to reverse the coupler to position 2 and see what it does to my turning radius and my clearances.
Have you run your combination across the scales yet? You might be surprised how much your pin weighs.
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Old 09-13-2021, 03:01 AM   #9
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Caleb, right in line with what has been said so far, I also agree that you should FIRST load that baby up like you're going camping. Fill the truck as usual, plus a full tank of fuel, add all your passengers and head out to the nearest CAT scale. There is one not far from where you live, for example exit 71, I-95, and make it a little adventure for the family. You weigh your rig and the family heads inside and puts the big warp on the ol' Mastercard!
You are going to be over your gross payload, probably in the 600 to 900 pounds, if not right now then you will be after a few trips. The excepted number to use when figuring pin weight for 5th wheel RV's is 23% of gross weight. Usually this number will be in the 19% until you've owned it for a year or two.
The posters above have given you good information, and not one of them came in the morning mail or fell off a cantaloupe truck. Take what we've said to heart and then get back to this thread after that pass across the CAT. How you deal with it is your business, but having that knowledge is important.
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Old 09-13-2021, 03:12 AM   #10
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Congratulations on the new rig…definitely need to weigh the rig…I had to move up to a 1 ton truck for the same reason…if you look back through the forum you’ll see a bunch more that had to do the same.

Your picture is with the trailer completely empty and the truck empty as well…how many people will be traveling with you?
If you load up the truck and trailer like your going camping your gonna be surprised how much weight that adds.
Air bags won’t change anything …I tried that

The weight of the second ac and slide toppers increases the weight of the fifth wheel just to start

I believe Ford does not include any weight for driver and passengers in payload spec…all that weight comes off the available payload
Your gonna be overweight no matter how you look at it
Your truck is better suited for a bumper tow Tavel trailer

I’d start looking for another truck…good news is you will get top dollar for your present truck
When I realized I was overweight I got mad….argued….ignored….then finally gave in and bought a new truck…..best thing I ever did

Load everything up and the whole family and just go to a CAT scale…you can get the app ….drive through with the trailer attached first… It’s really easy….disconnect the trailer and go back over with just the truck and you will know your true weights

Once you get your new truck you can concentrate on making memories and enjoying the experience…when I realized I was overloaded I spent all my time worrying about the the weight of every little thing I wanted to take camping…it no fun doing it that way

I wish you the best of luck and hope you and your family have many wonderful years of camping
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Old 09-13-2021, 03:24 AM   #11
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Just to pop in with something on the Andersen Ultimate... My Andersen Ultimate has ball on top that catches your Andersen supplied receiver on the pin box at an offset where it can be set toward the rear of the bed or front depending on how the unit is oriented. The part on the receiver can be oriented as well. The part on the receiver will also loosen over time and needs to be re-torqued once in awhile.



The guys giving you payload tips are right on the money. The Keystone sales gimick "half ton towable" is a bald face lie and the advertised pin weights are not part of the real world. Your payload is definitely going to be overloaded when you pull your new trailer... I know this is tough to hear but it is a regular theme for new folks who buy the marketing line Keystone puts forward. Good luck and be safe.
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Old 09-13-2021, 03:27 AM   #12
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O.p for me i have a 327res with an advertised pin weight of 1825. After loaded up and hitting the scale she is at 2350lbs thats 525 more then advertised.
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Old 09-13-2021, 04:16 AM   #13
CChambers
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Well hell.

I appreciate all the info. Guess my research fell short. I intentionally stayed under a certain number for pin weight as to be safe. I had a salesman trying to sell me a rig with 2100 advertised pin weight which I now can only assume was closer to 2800-3000 or more.

Apparently Iím truck shopping now. I open a site in 2 weeks that has a CAT scale, I will utilize that one and see what my weights are.

So for my future knowledge, is the 1570 lbs. advertised pin weight ever a valid number?
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Old 09-13-2021, 04:43 AM   #14
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Well hell.

I appreciate all the info. Guess my research fell short. I intentionally stayed under a certain number for pin weight as to be safe. I had a salesman trying to sell me a rig with 2100 advertised pin weight which I now can only assume was closer to 2800-3000 or more.

Apparently Iím truck shopping now. I open a site in 2 weeks that has a CAT scale, I will utilize that one and see what my weights are.

So for my future knowledge, is the 1570 lbs. advertised pin weight ever a valid number?


No....except when it is completely empty. The brochure 'dry' weight does not include batterie(s), propane, water, any add-on options and of course any gear you load in the trailer. That's why using 21%-22% of your 5th wheel's GVWR is typically the rule of thumb for 'guesstimation' purposes.
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Old 09-13-2021, 04:43 AM   #15
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Well hell.

I appreciate all the info. Guess my research fell short. I intentionally stayed under a certain number for pin weight as to be safe. I had a salesman trying to sell me a rig with 2100 advertised pin weight which I now can only assume was closer to 2800-3000 or more.

Apparently Iím truck shopping now. I open a site in 2 weeks that has a CAT scale, I will utilize that one and see what my weights are.

So for my future knowledge, is the 1570 lbs. advertised pin weight ever a valid number?

It may be when the camper rolled off the line but once it is fitted with battery, propane tanks and the things we all take with us when camping, the trailer will be closer to its gross weight than the unloaded weight. A fifth wheel, when actually weighed, will be 21-25 percent of the gross weight in the real world. Your truck will also have some sort of magical "towing capability" that wasn't determined towing a 5th wheel, bumper pull or any camper/horse trailer. It was determined by using a flat trailer with weight situated directly over the wheels (blocks I think) and not a big wind sail like a camper. The advertised towing capacity in the brochure will have caveats like specially equipped and few, if any trucks will be equipped in the manner that the truck used for testing was equipped. The short pole in the tent is almost invariably payload and that is specific to each truck rolling off the line and stated on the yellow/white payload placard in the driver door frame. Safety is a the big concern but in an accident an insurance or police investigator will know all about payload issues as many many trucks out there with 5th wheels are seriously over payload. Towing capacity comes into play with the largest of fifth wheels which are well over 15000 lbs.
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Old 09-13-2021, 04:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by CChambers View Post
Well hell.

I appreciate all the info. Guess my research fell short. I intentionally stayed under a certain number for pin weight as to be safe. I had a salesman trying to sell me a rig with 2100 advertised pin weight which I now can only assume was closer to 2800-3000 or more.

Apparently Iím truck shopping now. I open a site in 2 weeks that has a CAT scale, I will utilize that one and see what my weights are.

So for my future knowledge, is the 1570 lbs. advertised pin weight ever a valid number?
The advertised pin weight is a moment in time that will never be seen again..itís the weight of the fifth wheel without propane tanks or batteries and completely empty tanks..nothing in trailer at all as far as camping supplies and things in the refrigerator or cabinets..and then itís just one trailer at some point in historyÖ.with all the substitutions to building materials and appliances since covid there is no telling what yours actually isÖI believe there is a weight posted on your entrance door jam that has the weight of your particular trailer

It may seem like everyone enjoys telling you about being lopsided on your tow vehicle but I can promise you itís not the case.
.
No different then if you and your family were getting ready to go ice skating on a lake with thin ice.. itís all out of concern for your safety.

I ended up going with a 1 ton dually because I wanted the cushion should I decide to go with a bigger fifth wheel one day.
Itís a very stable platform to tow with

Good luck and kudos for having an open mind! I argued for 3 months before I admitted to myself that I was wrong
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Old 09-13-2021, 05:45 AM   #17
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I own the same camper and I can assure you that your pin weight will be much heavier than the advertised empty pin weight.

I towed it for a year with an 2020 F-250 with the 6.7PSD and the HCTT package and had a payload rating of 2906lbs because my truck came with a 10,800 GVWR. I had a much heavier Curt manual sliding hitch.

Sounds like your truck does not have the HCTT package and likely has a 10,000 GVWR.

That being said, my truck was likely technically over the payload rating when towing with people and loaded for camping. That being said, my truck had the exact same rear suspension and axle/brakes as an SRW F-350 so I was not too worried about it but in your case, you don't have the same rear suspension or axle as a SRW F-350.

I agree with the others, your pin is too far to the rear of the axle of the truck and this can take away from the benefits of towing a 5er vs a bumper towed travel trailer. You will likely end up hitting your bed rails or tailgate at some point with your pinbox as the truck and trailer articulate. You will be more prone to have squat issues, bottoming out the rear end, porpoising, and more prone to sway issues.

Be advised that when you get your pin weight centered over the axle, you will have to be careful with tight turns to not blow out the rear glass or dent your cab with the nose of the 5th wheel.

Hate to say it but you need more truck to be legal and to improve your towing experience. Even with the truck I had, dips in the road would bottom out the suspension and cause porpoising.

I now own a 22 F-450 which is major overkill for the 32BHS but we plan to upgrade to a heavier rig someday and it makes towing the existing rig a sheer pleasure!
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