Truck dually dilemma

[chunker]

I posted this on a more general forum also so for internet wanderers it may look familiar.

Current tow vehicle is the 2017 RAM 3500 with the normal output diesel and 68RFE 6 speed transmission. 4WD, LB, CC. I pull either a 39 foot Crusader bunkhouse 5th wheel GVWR around 14K or a 38' Toyhauler with GVWR of 17K but loaded to 15,8K for travel. Scales weight. For the Raptor TH I'm at what I describe at the ragged edge of cargo capacity and RAWR. Careful loading and I'm under tire rating and if not careful man much as 200 over RAWR. Scale weights, not guessing. To achieve that I have everything heavy and as much as possible in the garage and minimal fresh water and about 1/2 load fuel in the aux tank of 51g capacity. Loaded the truck squats where either I need to adjust headlights or put air springs of to correct squat. OR get truck 2 or 3

Since I have chased the golden goose, ( ideal tow vehicle) before, this exercise isn't anything particularly new. So looking for a dually again. Ideally a newer model RAM CC LB, big tank, 4WD and Laramie trim. In 2019 RAM did an overhaul and significant update to their HD trucks. Requirements are low miles, lighter color in and out, no sun roof, puck system. Debating on the "normal 6.7l diesel with the 68RFE 6 speed or the HD versions with the AISIN transmission. Both are very capable and obviously the HD versions have more HP and torque, actual number vary with year but for 2020 it's 375/800 vs 400/1000. Previous years a bit lower example 2017 370/800 vs 385/900.

The 68RFE gets good reviews for towing and strength as does the AISIN. This last trip from south AL up to ND I averaged 9+mpg except in SD with 20g30 head winds, then 7.

For the participators, looking for how people feel about a lightly used 19 standard engine, overpriced, or search for a suitable 20 with the HD diesel and AISIN. I can continue to operate on the raged edge but within limits, or say screw it, get the dually and load what I want up to a point. I currently have a 51g aux tank which gives me a lot of fueling flexibility and choices. The one used 19 has a 100g tank the will barely allow the 5th wheel hitch to fit. That's a lot of fuel on board.
______

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by chunker

I posted this on a more general forum also so for internet wanderers it may look familiar.

Current tow vehicle is the 2017 RAM 3500 with the normal output diesel and 68RFE 6 speed transmission. 4WD, LB, CC. I pull either a 39 foot Crusader bunkhouse 5th wheel GVWR around 14K or a 38' Toyhauler with GVWR of 17K but loaded to 15,8K for travel. Scales weight. For the Raptor TH I'm at what I describe at the ragged edge of cargo capacity and RAWR. Careful loading and I'm under tire rating and if not careful man much as 200 over RAWR. Scale weights, not guessing. To achieve that I have everything heavy and as much as possible in the garage and minimal fresh water and about 1/2 load fuel in the aux tank of 51g capacity. Loaded the truck squats where either I need to adjust headlights or put air springs of to correct squat. OR get truck 2 or 3

Since I have chased the golden goose, ( ideal tow vehicle) before, this exercise isn't anything particularly new. So looking for a dually again. Ideally a newer model RAM CC LB, big tank, 4WD and Laramie trim. In 2019 RAM did an overhaul and significant update to their HD trucks. Requirements are low miles, lighter color in and out, no sun roof, puck system. Debating on the "normal 6.7l diesel with the 68RFE 6 speed or the HD versions with the AISIN transmission. Both are very capable and obviously the HD versions have more HP and torque, actual number vary with year but for 2020 it's 375/800 vs 400/1000. Previous years a bit lower example 2017 370/800 vs 385/900.

The 68RFE gets good reviews for towing and strength as does the AISIN. This last trip from south AL up to ND I averaged 9+mpg except in SD with 20g30 head winds, then 7.

For the participators, looking for how people feel about a lightly used 19 standard engine, overpriced, or search for a suitable 20 with the HD diesel and AISIN. I can continue to operate on the raged edge but within limits, or say screw it, get the dually and load what I want up to a point. I currently have a 51g aux tank which gives me a lot of fueling flexibility and choices. The one used 19 has a 100g tank the will barely allow the 5th wheel hitch to fit. That's a lot of fuel on board.
______

The 2019+ RAMs have the CP4-2 Bosch injection pump. Personally the newest RAM I would want is a 2018, and if towing heavy, then a:

Dually
Aisin
4.10 gears
rear air suspension
Pucks can be added, I did it on my 2015 myself
Laramie, Limited or Longhorn
Titan replacement fuel tank

[chunker]

Originally Posted by Snoking

The 2019+ RAMs have the CP4-2 Bosch injection pump. Personally the newest RAM I would want is a 2018, and if towing heavy, then a:

Dually
Aisin
4.10 gears
rear air suspension
Pucks can be added, I did it on my 2015 myself
Laramie, Limited or Longhorn
Titan replacement fuel tank

Have the Bosch fuel pumps been problematic in the 19 and later? I haven't researched recalls or TBs yet.

EDIT did some reading on it and I'll look into your advice. Getting an 18 or earlier will also save a ton of $$ and since the truck isn't a daily driver, careful shopping will get a good one. Thanks.

[JRTJH]

There's a "similar thread" currently discussing the same issue, but in the half ton segment... There, it's the V-6 1500 vs the V-8 1500... General consensus is that "upgrading the powerplant" doesn't gain much in overall towing capacity, when there's only a "modest" payload increase, even though the GCWR goes up several thousand pounds....

Seems like what you're contemplating is a similar "TV upgrade" in the 1 ton SRW category.... Will gaining a couple/few hundred pounds of payload and possibly the same in RAWR provide "enough additional capacity to offset the investment in dollars" ????

Much the same question, with, IMHO, very similar suggestions forthcoming: Buying in the same truck segment will produce similar results, just with upgraded truck features....

So, if I were investing "thousands in a truck upgrade" I'd want that money to do as much as possible for me. That, to me, means a truck upgrade not a segment upgrade... Cut to the chase and upgrade to a dually. Your choice of years (Bosch issues) and option levels may dictate the actual vintage and cost, but capacity wise, upgrading to a dually will resolve the "careful monitoring of weight capacity".....

[Roscommon48]

just buy whatever, they are all good. I don't like duallies but do what you feel comfortable.
I love the new 2020-21 GMCs.

[Bolo4u]

While there have been instances of issues with the CP4-2 pump, but it hasn't reached the level of a NHTSA recall or FCA TSB that I've seen, yet

That said, the Ram 3500 dually are all rated to 14000 GVWR, and they all have set payloads. Once you start adding options and different transmissions, you can add to or lose payload.

As an example, I have a 2019 Ram 3500, CC, Aisin, 4:10, 4x4, airbags, Limited, with leather, moon roof, retractable running boards... essentially everything. My payload is 5121. Conversely, a similarly equipped 3500 with the 68RFE will have a payload a couple hundred pounds more then my truck, because eat Aisin weigh more than the other transmission. Keep in mind too, the gearing you select will affect the towing weight vs. the payload.

You said your TH is 17000 GVWR. Even if you did load the TH to its max, 22% would put your pin weight in the 3740 range, which for my truck, would leave a comfortable 1400 pounds payload still available.

It all comes down to what features and comforts we want on our trucks, while at the same time sacrificing payload... Not counting you, the family, pet/s, cargo, fuel etc...

Once everything is bolted to the truck and it rolls off the assembly line, it gets weighed and whatever it weighs is subtracted from the magic 14000 number.

Just food for thought.

[chunker]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There's a "similar thread" currently discussing the same issue, but in the half ton segment... There, it's the V-6 1500 vs the V-8 1500... General consensus is that "upgrading the powerplant" doesn't gain much in overall towing capacity, when there's only a "modest" payload increase, even though the GCWR goes up several thousand pounds....

Seems like what you're contemplating is a similar "TV upgrade" in the 1 ton SRW category.... Will gaining a couple/few hundred pounds of payload and possibly the same in RAWR provide "enough additional capacity to offset the investment in dollars" ????

Much the same question, with, IMHO, very similar suggestions forthcoming: Buying in the same truck segment will produce similar results, just with upgraded truck features....

So, if I were investing "thousands in a truck upgrade" I'd want that money to do as much as possible for me. That, to me, means a truck upgrade not a segment upgrade... Cut to the chase and upgrade to a dually. Your choice of years (Bosch issues) and option levels may dictate the actual vintage and cost, but capacity wise, upgrading to a dually will resolve the "careful monitoring of weight capacity".....

John in my original post I said I was contemplating going back to a dually, it's just the equipment that that I need to decide on. For my creature comforts I prefer the Laramie which puts it in the mid/upper amenity range. I really don't want some of the stuff on the Limited or things like sunroof, power side steps and such. Nor do I want to "rough" it in a Tradesman and that level. My SRW 3500 Laramie has the lower hp and torque motor with the 68RFE transmission and it handles the trailer very nicely. That 19 Laramie I looked at yesterday had the same power train and the door sticker was 5800+# with is a 1600# gain over my SRW. At my stage in life I seriously doubt that I'll be buying a trailer that would need the full capabilities of the high hp engine and AISIN tranny. I'm not concerned about hp bragging rights either. The RAWR on that dually was 9750 which is a 2750# gain from my SRW. I'm certainly not looking at segment upgrade and that additional capacity would mean not having to download to stay within limits. I frankly expected, and hoped, for more of a weight transfer off the pin when I loaded the garage.

Reference the Bosch fuel pump in the 19 and later, I read some more and it seems to be after 100K miles and related to potential lax fuel maintenance as in not changing filters. The other issue stated was pump lubrication since it was developed in Europe which has different diesel supposedly. But I have a hard time accepting that Cummins would deliberately use a substandard pump for the USA market. At any rate if I get a low mileage, I'm unlikely to put over that 100K since it's not a daily driver and I'm not a full-timer. And I do maintenance.

[wiredgeorge]

I looked at the Ram towing chart and some of the payload and overall tow numbers are off the charts:
https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html


The reason I checked was the article in Camper Report which claimed to detail the BEST tow vehicles for 2021. Found the article an inane rehash of marketing spiel. They touted the new F150 without any facts, some truck I have never heard of and of course the Ram and Chevy offerings. The reason I went to the Ram site was the 1500 TRX with 705 hp. I am just guessing this may not be the ideal tow vehicle of the future or any of the half tons (or the new Ford Ranger). The Ram towing chart was an eye opener though for the 3/4 and 1 tons. Of course in the 3/4 ton listings the range of payloads was insane.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by chunker

John in my original post I said I was contemplating going back to a dually, it's just the equipment that that I need to decide on. For my creature comforts I prefer the Laramie which puts it in the mid/upper amenity range. I really don't want some of the stuff on the Limited or things like sunroof, power side steps and such. Nor do I want to "rough" it in a Tradesman and that level. My SRW 3500 Laramie has the lower hp and torque motor with the 68RFE transmission and it handles the trailer very nicely. That 19 Laramie I looked at yesterday had the same power train and the door sticker was 5800+# with is a 1600# gain over my SRW. At my stage in life I seriously doubt that I'll be buying a trailer that would need the full capabilities of the high hp engine and AISIN tranny. I'm not concerned about hp bragging rights either. The RAWR on that dually was 9750 which is a 2750# gain from my SRW. I'm certainly not looking at segment upgrade and that additional capacity would mean not having to download to stay within limits. I frankly expected, and hoped, for more of a weight transfer off the pin when I loaded the garage.

Reference the Bosch fuel pump in the 19 and later, I read some more and it seems to be after 100K miles and related to potential lax fuel maintenance as in not changing filters. The other issue stated was pump lubrication since it was developed in Europe which has different diesel supposedly. But I have a hard time accepting that Cummins would deliberately use a substandard pump for the USA market. At any rate if I get a low mileage, I'm unlikely to put over that 100K since it's not a daily driver and I'm not a full-timer. And I do maintenance.

All three of the major players have had problems with the Bosch pump and lube, one reason I run Diesel Kleen in every tank.

[tech740]

Originally Posted by chunker

John in my original post I said I was contemplating going back to a dually, it's just the equipment that that I need to decide on. For my creature comforts I prefer the Laramie which puts it in the mid/upper amenity range. I really don't want some of the stuff on the Limited or things like sunroof, power side steps and such. Nor do I want to "rough" it in a Tradesman and that level. My SRW 3500 Laramie has the lower hp and torque motor with the 68RFE transmission and it handles the trailer very nicely. That 19 Laramie I looked at yesterday had the same power train and the door sticker was 5800+# with is a 1600# gain over my SRW. At my stage in life I seriously doubt that I'll be buying a trailer that would need the full capabilities of the high hp engine and AISIN tranny. I'm not concerned about hp bragging rights either. The RAWR on that dually was 9750 which is a 2750# gain from my SRW. I'm certainly not looking at segment upgrade and that additional capacity would mean not having to download to stay within limits. I frankly expected, and hoped, for more of a weight transfer off the pin when I loaded the garage.

Reference the Bosch fuel pump in the 19 and later, I read some more and it seems to be after 100K miles and related to potential lax fuel maintenance as in not changing filters. The other issue stated was pump lubrication since it was developed in Europe which has different diesel supposedly. But I have a hard time accepting that Cummins would deliberately use a substandard pump for the USA market. At any rate if I get a low mileage, I'm unlikely to put over that 100K since it's not a daily driver and I'm not a full-timer. And I do maintenance.

When I bought my 2019 HO I searched for it. Will a 68RFE do the job? Most likely. I can tell you I blew a 68RFE in 2019 on a previous truck. They have prolly made some upgrades since 2010 but if I was sticking with Cummins then I was not having that tans again. You may not need the extra power the Aisin will take but from reputation you may enjoy the add dependability it brings.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

I looked at the Ram towing chart and some of the payload and overall tow numbers are off the charts:
https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html


The reason I checked was the article in Camper Report which claimed to detail the BEST tow vehicles for 2021. Found the article an inane rehash of marketing spiel. They touted the new F150 without any facts, some truck I have never heard of and of course the Ram and Chevy offerings. The reason I went to the Ram site was the 1500 TRX with 705 hp. I am just guessing this may not be the ideal tow vehicle of the future or any of the half tons (or the new Ford Ranger). The Ram towing chart was an eye opener though for the 3/4 and 1 tons. Of course in the 3/4 ton listings the range of payloads was insane.

Your link is great! I had run my VIN on a previous version and it was off by a couple hundred pounds on payload. Well this time it is very accurate.

My door sticker list payload as 5,411#
This is what I got from the WEB site;
MAX PAYLOAD 5,410.58LBS
MAX TOWING 25,210.58LBS

[Snoking]

That site is spot on for my 2015 RAM also. Chris

[chunker]

I have off and on looked at truck upgrades and for the time being I'm going to put serious looking on the back burner. I will put air springs on to get my headlights out of the sky. On IRV2 there is a thread about lack of availability of the 1 ton segment. Covid is a major player since the factories were shut down for a significant time and probably not ramped up to full production. Additionally the 1T segment is a smaller niche and manufacturers are going to make more of the more popular cars/trucks rather than the niche section. Pricing is rather high due to above. That 19 RAM I referenced above had an original window sticker of $75K and they want $69.7K now. I strongly suspect that's more the the original owner paid for it with incentives/rebates that were available last year.

I don't need a new truck, I have a good and capable truck that will do the job but as stated above, I have to be careful in loading. Next year if I feel the fine line I'm walking/driving is too much trouble, I'll upgrade then. Additionally I'll still be looking because stuff comes on the market all the time. Another major item influencing pricing, this November if the country screws up and elects the wrong way, the economy will start tanking and there will be a ton of very lightly used 350/3500s available as unemployment goes through the roof.

NOTE that is not a POLITICAL assessment, that's an ECONOMIC assessment.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by chunker

I have off and on looked at truck upgrades and for the time being I'm going to put serious looking on the back burner. I will put air springs on to get my headlights out of the sky. On IRV2 there is a thread about lack of availability of the 1 ton segment. Covid is a major player since the factories were shut down for a significant time and probably not ramped up to full production. Additionally the 1T segment is a smaller niche and manufacturers are going to make more of the more popular cars/trucks rather than the niche section. Pricing is rather high due to above. That 19 RAM I referenced above had an original window sticker of $75K and they want $69.7K now. I strongly suspect that's more the the original owner paid for it with incentives/rebates that were available last year.

I don't need a new truck, I have a good and capable truck that will do the job but as stated above, I have to be careful in loading. Next year if I feel the fine line I'm walking/driving is too much trouble, I'll upgrade then. Additionally I'll still be looking because stuff comes on the market all the time. Another major item influencing pricing, this November if the country screws up and elects the wrong way, the economy will start tanking and there will be a ton of very lightly used 350/3500s available as unemployment goes through the roof.

NOTE that is not a POLITICAL assessment, that's an ECONOMIC assessment.

Some in your position put 19.5" rims and tires on the SRW trucks and motor on. It is not a bad route for someone that tows with the truck most of the time. Wheel availability is a bit of an issue, and requires a lot of digging. Tires are not an issue. Another issue is the lowest allowed pressure is pretty high on these wheel/tire combos, so as a daily driver you have a brick truck.

Something to check out, then you do not worry so much about loading. Chris

[chunker]

Originally Posted by Snoking

Some in your position put 19.5" rims and tires on the SRW trucks and motor on. It is not a bad route for someone that tows with the truck most of the time. Wheel availability is a bit of an issue, and requires a lot of digging. Tires are not an issue. Another issue is the lowest allowed pressure is pretty high on these wheel/tire combos, so as a daily driver you have a brick truck.

Something to check out, then you do not worry so much about loading. Chris

In my truck the "weak link" so to speak is the rear axle rating of 7K. That's easy to exceed with my trailer and easy to keep under with proper careful loading. I'm OK with tires and every other weight rating. The truck has 18" tires not the trendy 20" so that helps especially when it comes time for new tires with might be soon. OEM probably won't make 20K. I haven't yet but will soon research replacement with a higher load range. I figure someone here has already done that research so I'll tap into that knowledge rather than reinvent the wheel.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by chunker

In my truck the "weak link" so to speak is the rear axle rating of 7K. That's easy to exceed with my trailer and easy to keep under with proper careful loading. I'm OK with tires and every other weight rating. The truck has 18" tires not the trendy 20" so that helps especially when it comes time for new tires with might be soon. OEM probably won't make 20K. I haven't yet but will soon research replacement with a higher load range. I figure someone here has already done that research so I'll tap into that knowledge rather than reinvent the wheel.

My OEM FS AT's made it to 29K. This truck now has 70K on it and the Michelin Defenders are wearing well. I will most likely replace them next summer when they have around 50K+ miles on them and are getting ready for yet another round trip to Arizona. Problem with trying to up the capacity on 18" tires is that you go to a taller tire in the process. LT285/70R18E are rated at 3860. However you go from a 33.2" tire to a 35" tire. If you have 3.42 gears and 68RFE tranny, then getting a load moving will be hurt a bit. Not so much with the Aisin and it's lower first and second gears.

[tech740]

Originally Posted by chunker

In my truck the "weak link" so to speak is the rear axle rating of 7K. That's easy to exceed with my trailer and easy to keep under with proper careful loading. I'm OK with tires and every other weight rating. The truck has 18" tires not the trendy 20" so that helps especially when it comes time for new tires with might be soon. OEM probably won't make 20K. I haven't yet but will soon research replacement with a higher load range. I figure someone here has already done that research so I'll tap into that knowledge rather than reinvent the wheel.

reinvent the wheel. I see what you did there.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by chunker

I have off and on looked at truck upgrades and for the time being I'm going to put serious looking on the back burner. I will put air springs on to get my headlights out of the sky. On IRV2 there is a thread about lack of availability of the 1 ton segment. Covid is a major player since the factories were shut down for a significant time and probably not ramped up to full production. Additionally the 1T segment is a smaller niche and manufacturers are going to make more of the more popular cars/trucks rather than the niche section. Pricing is rather high due to above. That 19 RAM I referenced above had an original window sticker of $75K and they want $69.7K now. I strongly suspect that's more the the original owner paid for it with incentives/rebates that were available last year.

I don't need a new truck, I have a good and capable truck that will do the job but as stated above, I have to be careful in loading. Next year if I feel the fine line I'm walking/driving is too much trouble, I'll upgrade then. Additionally I'll still be looking because stuff comes on the market all the time. Another major item influencing pricing, this November if the country screws up and elects the wrong way, the economy will start tanking and there will be a ton of very lightly used 350/3500s available as unemployment goes through the roof.

NOTE that is not a POLITICAL assessment, that's an ECONOMIC assessment.

I wouldn't make a move on a vehicle this late in the year. The jury is out on what will happen at the end of the year; it could be good for the industry or it could be bad. Lots of variables introduced with the virus reactions so that makes the situation pretty murky as well. I'm still not convinced that, depending on what happens at the end of the year, that Ram won't offer the employee + pricing again this fall. Might just be for selected vehicles and might be for nothing at all. IF it comes out I would take advantage of it. I did on the truck in my signature and saved a bundle over normal discounted pricing so it might be worth waiting to see.

[JJaxon]

As you know, we conversed a bit about my recent trade. I too was in the research mode, really just looking to see what was out there to compare to what I had. I am not an impulse buyer, but I am a need over want rules. My trade in was a '19 SRW LB 4x4 CC CTD Laramie. I wanted to see what I could gain by trading up to the dually. I had 27k miles (in 1.5 yrs) so tire replacement was coming by spring, on my '19 when I traded, it had a recent ding in the front bumper and a new expensive ding in the tailgate. While looking I got a repair estimate on fixing those, $4k. The body shop estimator told me if Im trading dont mess with the repairs, it won't matter, and he was right. I got more for my trade than I expected and the "Buy New" rebates are out there, in some zip codes. I was up front about the dings, nothing changed. I gained 1400lbs in payload, and some new bells and whistle for the '20. Ultimately, I gained in confidence that when I hit the big road and deal with marginal load limits, wind control and ??? I do think the turn radius is a bit tighter on the dually. Might be the 17.5" tires vs. 20", I'm not sure, but it feels like a tighter turn. My '20 has the 4:10 rear end, my 19 had the 3:73, both have the 68RFE trans.

I thought about air bags to level the squat, axle ratings, tires, headlights shining high, but the 1st and foremost reason was available payload, for me. When I found this truck using Car Gurus app, I knew the dealership and salesman was already in my phone.

As for the fuel pumps, and other maintenance items that may or may not factor in, I didn't see that as a concern for me. My daily driver has 2 wheels and is easier to park in tight spaces. With the warranties as good as they are, and as many Ram trucks as there are on the road, I dont think any mechanical issues will go without a fix. I do have my services done as prescribed.

I was told to go big,,, order the ultimate truck, blah blah blah,, but that wasn't necessary for me. As for used vs. new, I wouldn't go more than 2 years old, but then I'd ask myself, what has this used truck been through to be for sale. Buying new was a confidence factor too. Any issues, it's covered. My biggest fear for a used truck was did someone try to delete this, gone wrong, then they traded, or some nightmarish thing like that. New was for me, because I can afford the hit, and nothing to keep me awake or on the side of the road when I shouldn't be.

If you need a push to keep looking, I'll say you can find the truck you need, it's out there. Then its just a matter of spending the money.

No regrets from me. Now I get to accessorize with Amp running boards, aux fuel tank, etc, again.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JJaxon

As you know, we conversed a bit about my recent trade. I too was in the research mode, really just looking to see what was out there to compare to what I had. I am not an impulse buyer, but I am a need over want rules. My trade in was a '19 SRW LB 4x4 CC CTD Laramie. I wanted to see what I could gain by trading up to the dually. I had 27k miles (in 1.5 yrs) so tire replacement was coming by spring, on my '19 when I traded, it had a recent ding in the front bumper and a new expensive ding in the tailgate. While looking I got a repair estimate on fixing those, $4k. The body shop estimator told me if Im trading dont mess with the repairs, it won't matter, and he was right. I got more for my trade than I expected and the "Buy New" rebates are out there, in some zip codes. I was up front about the dings, nothing changed. I gained 1400lbs in payload, and some new bells and whistle for the '20. Ultimately, I gained in confidence that when I hit the big road and deal with marginal load limits, wind control and ??? I do think the turn radius is a bit tighter on the dually. Might be the 17.5" tires vs. 20", I'm not sure, but it feels like a tighter turn. My '20 has the 4:10 rear end, my 19 had the 3:73, both have the 68RFE trans.

I thought about air bags to level the squat, axle ratings, tires, headlights shining high, but the 1st and foremost reason was available payload, for me. When I found this truck using Car Gurus app, I knew the dealership and salesman was already in my phone.

As for the fuel pumps, and other maintenance items that may or may not factor in, I didn't see that as a concern for me. My daily driver has 2 wheels and is easier to park in tight spaces. With the warranties as good as they are, and as many Ram trucks as there are on the road, I dont think any mechanical issues will go without a fix. I do have my services done as prescribed.

I was told to go big,,, order the ultimate truck, blah blah blah,, but that wasn't necessary for me. As for used vs. new, I wouldn't go more than 2 years old, but then I'd ask myself, what has this used truck been through to be for sale. Buying new was a confidence factor too. Any issues, it's covered. My biggest fear for a used truck was did someone try to delete this, gone wrong, then they traded, or some nightmarish thing like that. New was for me, because I can afford the hit, and nothing to keep me awake or on the side of the road when I shouldn't be.

If you need a push to keep looking, I'll say you can find the truck you need, it's out there. Then its just a matter of spending the money.

No regrets from me. Now I get to accessorize with Amp running boards, aux fuel tank, etc, again.

The highlighted above is true today. Gone are the days when you took the vehicle to that "special guy" (the appraiser) and he pulled out that worn "special book" (NADA) and digested those "special numbers" only he knew....then the magic "trade value" came. Back then you could advise about this or that upgrade, they would walk around the vehicle and assess every ding, scratch etc. Those days have gone bye bye. They use the internet and so do I. I don't think they could care less about the vehicle unless it had on side caved in or the engine was blown. They will low ball you every time and give you some off the wall reason why. You have to be prepared to counter that.

This last trade (truck) they would not give me what I wanted. I told the salesman you work a deal using what I want and give it to the sales manager and whoever it is that's giving me the trade in price. Came back with that's the way it is. I sent them links to all of the things I could pull on the internet; they came back with "we use black book"....really? I can't access black book. I had looked high and low for the particular drive train etc. that this truck had across the south and they had found one for me....and they had employee + pricing so I wasn't going to let it go. Finally told them my truck was nicer than the "average trade in" price and I wanted more and would bring it in so the appraiser and I both could go over it. Took it in and was taken to an office and told the appraiser would look it over. I watched him walk to it, open the doors to front and back, close the doors and come back in. The salesman came back to me and said "he'll give you 1000 more than the original offer". Not what I wanted but I was going to buy it anyway so took it. Nope, not like the old days.