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Old 03-23-2020, 02:14 AM   #21
rabbit59
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Gumby52....yes they sheared off inroute....I believe they probably rocked a little bit from tank height and the bolts cracked one by one till they all broke. They were small, cheap, self tapping bolts. Maybe 1/4 at most.
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Old 03-24-2020, 05:16 AM   #22
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LPG Bolts & Keystone

Yep, same thing here. They did not even put washers on our mount plate. Only self tapping screws. Due to dissimilar corrosion and cheap screws I caught 3 of 4 snapped and repaired the problem. Not to mention the underlayment popping up under the TPO membrane that Keystone denied my claim... Love my camper Hate Keystone!
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Old 03-24-2020, 06:05 AM   #23
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Gumby52....yes they sheared off inroute....I believe they probably rocked a little bit from tank height and the bolts cracked one by one till they all broke. They were small, cheap, self tapping bolts. Maybe 1/4 at most.
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Yep, same thing here. They did not even put washers on our mount plate. Only self tapping screws. Due to dissimilar corrosion and cheap screws I caught 3 of 4 snapped and repaired the problem. Not to mention the underlayment popping up under the TPO membrane that Keystone denied my claim... Love my camper Hate Keystone!
From what I can tell, NOBODY has yet determined if the propane tray was relocated to install the hitch or if the screws being used were installed by someone "outside the factory". Far too many people are "quick to blame Keystone" with no earthly idea whether someone at a hitch installation shop or an RV dealership may well be the "guilty party"....

If you buy a new Ford (or GM) truck and someone at a "custom tint shop" screws up tinting the windows or the LINE-X installer screws up the bed coating, can you really "blame Ford (or GM) ????

It's ultimately "up to your dealership" to make sure the trailer was delivered to you "ready to use".... If some "third party" is removing and reinstalling components, that's NOT a Keystone factory issue......
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:16 AM   #24
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Yeah, he has remained silent about starting at step 1 to fix a problem before going to the last step.
My opinion, phoning the or any companies headquarters is a big waste of time. If you talk to anyone, they are office people not anyone who builds/repairs/sells their products. Their answers are about as good as the sales pitches they print on the booklets.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:51 AM   #25
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Customer support (phone answering employees) in almost every company are a part of the "public relations department". They are not a part of the engineering department, the manufacturing department or the quality control department. Often times, such as with Keystone and Dutchman, they aren't even a part of the same company....

Complaining to the "phone tree" about an issue with manufacturing or quality control is very much like complaining to the janitor at McD's about your hospital bill. Two different departments (often in two different companies) that typically only talk to one another at lunch or at the weekly "how goes it" meeting where conversations are limited to a maximum of 30 minutes on a Friday afternoon while checks are being distributed..... We all know how much "effective work" gets done on Friday afternoon in a "time limited meeting" while waiting for the pay clerk to drop off the checks and watching the clock to make sure everyone beats the bank drive through line closing time...….

The point is: Calling Keystone to complain about a propane rack failure is very much like "self inflicted punishment". After the bruising resolves, you've still got a busted propane tank and hopefully little scarring. It's for sure Keystone won't be sending a repairman to fix your propane tank rack. The best you can expect is a comment, "Please contact your dealership for any assistance"......
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:09 PM   #26
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Actually jrtjh, I talked to a gentleman at keystone, Tom, that meets with a team of ac people. They know about it and maybe a recall will be issued.
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Old 03-25-2020, 05:08 PM   #27
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Actually jrtjh, I talked to a gentleman at keystone, Tom, that meets with a team of ac people. They know about it and maybe a recall will be issued.
Don't hold your breath waiting for that recall, or on a return call from Tom to let you know the results of your talk with him. BTW, where does "Tom" work and who is on that "team of ac people"... I've never heard of that team....
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Old 03-25-2020, 05:14 PM   #28
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Actually jrtjh, I talked to a gentleman at keystone, Tom, that meets with a team of ac people. They know about it and maybe a recall will be issued.

I’ll be curious to see what the “recall” is. It seems like I can spend 1/2 my day doing different recalls, TSB’s and such. Please post any further information.
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Old 03-25-2020, 05:53 PM   #29
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Sounds to me the most likely "recall" will be the OP "recalling" Keystone every day trying to get answer to a problem that no longer exists because he fixed it himself. Am I missing something?
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:20 AM   #30
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I don't believe we will ever see one. With the lack quality I am starting to find (and repair myself) If they cared they would simply do a better job to start with. I understand Cost of product vs price sold... but some of these short sighted engineering is gonna get some people killed. And in fairness from what I read on other sights it is industry wide.... gggeeezzzzzz !!!!
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Old 03-26-2020, 07:21 AM   #31
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I don't believe we will ever see one. With the lack quality I am starting to find (and repair myself) If they cared they would simply do a better job to start with. I understand Cost of product vs price sold... but some of these short sighted engineering is gonna get some people killed. And in fairness from what I read on other sights it is industry wide.... gggeeezzzzzz !!!!
It is an "industry wide problem". I was looking at a GD Reflection fifth wheel yesterday. The front passthrough doors are cut "lower than the top of the frame rails" to give a "bit more clearance and space" There is a plastic liner at the bottom of those cutouts. It appears sealed to the frame and the "J-wrap" and looks to be "water resistant". HOWEVER: If you push on the "plastic floor" with 2 fingers, it flexes and you can feel that "single layer floor" by putting your other hand under the "J-wrap". It's a "single layer plastic floor" about 1/16" thick. Put a 30 pound tool pouch in that area, "bounce down any interstate in America" and you'll be backtracking to find your tools.

Cougar, on the other hand, uses a solid floor over the outriggers in that area. Cougar, however, has elected to discontinue the "roof edge molding" located under the TPO that transitioned the OSB roof decking to the sidewall. That molding "rounded the edges" to prevent sharp edges from cutting the EPDM membrane. With TPO, apparently Keystone determined there's not enough "problem with cut roof membrane" to continue using the roof edge molding.

So, every RV manufacturer "takes weight reduction steps", some on the roof, some in the passthrough, some in other areas, but they ALL are building trailers "at the bare minimum" not "at with significant reserve strength".....
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Old 03-26-2020, 09:57 AM   #32
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Sorry, my problem is with the underlayment of the TPO roof membrane. and I understand your point. But for a 9 month old camper??? Simple, they did not fasten (correctly or not at all) the underlayment. That I would think from being a A&P +Pilot, that it is a structural component and they should correct it.... Thanks for the input.
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:27 AM   #33
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Sorry, my problem is with the underlayment of the TPO roof membrane. and I understand your point. But for a 9 month old camper??? Simple, they did not fasten (correctly or not at all) the underlayment. That I would think from being a A&P +Pilot, that it is a structural component and they should correct it.... Thanks for the input.
A brand-new, off-the-line Cessna 172S Skyhawk has a manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) of $398,000. A brand new Outback 210URS has a manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) of $30,984, and often sells for less than $25,000. Hardly an "apples to apples" comparison.

That said, as long as people like you and I are standing in line with approved credit (or in rare cases, cash in hand) ready to buy the next one delivered from the factory, Keystone isn't about to change one stitch of their "cash cow profit machine".... Honestly, why should they, they can't make them as fast as they're selling them......
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:46 AM   #34
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Okay, checked my base plate for the propane tanks today. Seems good and solid, just need to clean up a little and touch up with rustoleum rust-remover. Ill take care of that when I clean and touch up the wd hangers.

Gary
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Old 03-26-2020, 12:54 PM   #35
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Propane tank holders

I have a Passport 199ml and had the same setup as you have. I took everything off and had a custom aluminum plate made to hold the tanks , batteries and generator. You are right about the undersized bolts to anchor the plate down. Cheaply done as alot of stuff on the trailer , I am slowly improving on most things from factory install. A little at a time.
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Old 03-27-2020, 03:59 AM   #36
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Those bolts are cheap, self tapping, around 1/4" bolts....no grade at all. So Gumby52, take and rock 60 lbs front and back and what are those skinny bolts going to do? Crack and break!! That's what....if I were you.....I'd replace them. Dont say you weren't warned!! Good luck!!
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Old 03-27-2020, 04:00 AM   #37
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Nice JohnP....looks great!!
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Old 03-27-2020, 05:06 AM   #38
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GUMBY52
Looks can be very deceiving. I would suggest backing out each screw and checking condition for corrosion. One or more may just snap off. Install 4 new screws (they do not cost a lot) & add some anti corrosion compound. Or go ahead and U bolt them.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:15 AM   #39
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Capt Don....Agree!! after seeing mine break, and my brother in law had one broken, I'd pull them all, drill and tap bigger, and put grade 8 bolts in....fix it right or you might regret it later....something like propane is nothing to mess with.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:09 AM   #40
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This is not criticism, anything you do to improve the attachment is better than what was used and failed. That said, from an engineering perspective, a grade 8 bolt must have a specific number of threads engaged "in the nut" to meet strength requirements. If you "tapped threads" in a 1/8" mild steel A-frame member, you may not have sufficient strength to hold the "grade 8 bolt" without failure of the threads or the ability to hold the bolt without loosening...

Typically, a 5/16" nut is at least 1/4" thick and most grade 8 nuts are at least 50% thicker than that minimum. There simply isn't enough "thickness in the A-frame channel to hold a large grade 8 bolt securely (without stripping out).

Unless you've installed nuts "on the underside of the grade 8 bolt" (I'd suggest lock washers as well) you may be "working with a false sense of security and a pending failure".

As I said, don't consider this as criticism, what you did has improved the tray security over what the factory did, but unless you've got nuts and lock washers under the tray/A-frame assembly, the threads in that mild steel A-frame probably won't hold a 1/4" or 5/16" grade 8 bolt "indefinitely"...….
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