34TSB and 6 Passenger Tow Vehicle

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Eagle470

Max Payload Capacity 3,210 lbs.
https://www.edmunds.com/gmc/savana/2021/features-specs/

You might want to doublecheck that link. It's for a 4.3L V-6 and "if it has the optional towing package" is rated for 9200 pounds.

The "problem with spec sheets" is that they typically are published by the marketing department (intended to make an attractive sales brochure) and not by the engineering department (intended to provide accurate information about a specific vehicle, not a generalized fleet of vehicles).....

In the two links you posted, in post #8, the specs are for a 1 ton van with a 6.6L engine and in post #12 is for an entirely different vehicle configuration.

That's why most people who post will recommend that you find the specific vehicle and look at the yellow payload sticker FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL VEHICLE... Payloads are very much like fingerprints. Every truck will vary slightly from the others and some may be "missing fingers" with a dramatic difference in payload.....

And, keep in mind that every option you add to the truck will increase the curb weight and decrease the payload. Want leather? Reduced payload, Want electric windows, further reduced payload, Want the rear heater? Deduct a few more pounds from the payload. Want rear air conditioning? Even less remaining payload.... Add the 6.6L to get the 12,000 max trailer? Reduce the payload by a couple hundred pounds for the heavier V8 vs the lightweight V-6.....

Read the footnotes 1, 2, 3 and 4 on the first link.

[Gegrad]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

Last I knew, they still sell 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that seat 6? In fact, it is a standard on most trucks and you have to pay extra for the front console and 2 bucket seats. What’s wrong with a 1 ton truck?

His oldest child is 3-1/2 years old... WAY too young to sit in the middle front seat of a truck.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

Last I knew, they still sell 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that seat 6? In fact, it is a standard on most trucks and you have to pay extra for the front console and 2 bucket seats. What’s wrong with a 1 ton truck?

You could possibly order a truck with a front bench seat, but I can't remember the last time I've seen a crew cab or extended cab truck on a dealers lot that did not have front buckets w/ a console, I agree you pay for that option, but most will be equipped that way.

[Eagle470]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

Last I knew, they still sell 3/4 and 1 ton trucks that seat 6? In fact, it is a standard on most trucks and you have to pay extra for the front console and 2 bucket seats. What’s wrong with a 1 ton truck?

All my kids would be under 5. I don't think I can legally put the oldest in the front seat until he's at least 8.

I'm looking at converting a van from 2wd to 4wd.

[Eagle470]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

You might want to doublecheck that link. It's for a 4.3L V-6 and "if it has the optional towing package" is rated for 9200 pounds.

The "problem with spec sheets" is that they typically are published by the marketing department (intended to make an attractive sales brochure) and not by the engineering department (intended to provide accurate information about a specific vehicle, not a generalized fleet of vehicles).....

In the two links you posted, in post #8, the specs are for a 1 ton van with a 6.6L engine and in post #12 is for an entirely different vehicle configuration.

That's why most people who post will recommend that you find the specific vehicle and look at the yellow payload sticker FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL VEHICLE... Payloads are very much like fingerprints. Every truck will vary slightly from the others and some may be "missing fingers" with a dramatic difference in payload.....

And, keep in mind that every option you add to the truck will increase the curb weight and decrease the payload. Want leather? Reduced payload, Want electric windows, further reduced payload, Want the rear heater? Deduct a few more pounds from the payload. Want rear air conditioning? Even less remaining payload.... Add the 6.6L to get the 12,000 max trailer? Reduce the payload by a couple hundred pounds for the heavier V8 vs the lightweight V-6.....

Read the footnotes 1, 2, 3 and 4 on the first link.

You have to scroll down to see the other engine builds.

Regardless: https://www.gmc.com/content/dam/gmc/...de_DIGITAL.pdf

[Eagle470]

Originally Posted by Gegrad

His oldest child is 3-1/2 years old... WAY too young to sit in the middle front seat of a truck.

What are your thoughts?

I could trade the trailer in for a shorter one.

Buy a Van like I've proposed, I would add 4WD and probably a turbo.

OR

Trade in the Truck and the trailer and buy an RV.

Is there another option I don't see?

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Eagle470

What are your thoughts?

I could trade the trailer in for a shorter one.

Buy a Van like I've proposed, I would add 4WD and probably a turbo.

OR

Trade in the Truck and the trailer and buy an RV.

Is there another option I don't see?

Adding a turbo and 4WD is not real practical on a van. Can it be done? A turbo has many other engine modifications to accommodate the turbo and it just isn't a bolt on directly. Have you considered a smaller Class A? You might still want to drag along a smallish car if you wanted to take the tribe to McD's. You would then be left with the smallish car to be your grocery getter when not camping.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Eagle470

All my kids would be under 5. I don't think I can legally put the oldest in the front seat until he's at least 8.

I'm looking at converting a van from 2wd to 4wd.

Unless you have a lot of new parts on hand, a fully equipped shop and tools converting a 2wd van to 4wd is not "bang for the buck" kind of thing; lots of money to convert to a specialized vehicle that is then even less capable as a tow vehicle. The conversion will not only require a vehicle equipped properly to minimize costs, every ounce you add in weight comes off the available payload for kids, toys, hitch and trailer tongue weight. I've seen 4x4 van conversions and talked to owners that did it - they will be a "one off", not cheap and certainly not like having the reliability of a new, stock vehicle.

Another question on converting the van to 4x4 is why? If you want to get into the wilderness on 4x4 roads pulling a trailer you need to get a small, cheap, old trailer because it will be coming apart pretty quick.

[Canonman]

Here's the "tank" I was referring to:
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1GNWCLEG7DR330171
I'm sure you can find others with similar specs.
https://www.carfax.com/Used-Chevrole...rban-2500_w168

[NH_Bulldog]

I am old enough to remember cars with no seatbelts, and then cars with only lap belts. If we were lucky enough to even have a car seat, this is what it looked like. Somehow we survived to adulthood even in the front seat.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Eagle470

You have to scroll down to see the other engine builds.

Regardless: https://www.gmc.com/content/dam/gmc/...de_DIGITAL.pdf

Now you're on link #3 to "imaginary vehicles"... Read the GVWR, GCWR and MAX TRAILER specs for the Savana 3500 regular wheelbase passenger van.

GVWR 9600
GCWR 16000
Max TLR 9600

Now, "do the math": If the truck is at GVWR (9600) then the maximum trailer weight can not exceed 6400 pounds (9600+6400=16000).

The "empty weight of the Savanah Passenger van BASE MODEL" is nothing even close to the empty weight of a Savanah van sitting on a dealer's lot with optional equipment. EVERY vehicle built will weigh differently than the "brochures or links" .... In order to get a "real world weight and a real world payload" you're going to have to look at the yellow sticker for the specific vehicle.

I can assure you that with any vehicle line, the payload can (and will) vary as much as 1000 pounds or possibly more, based on optional equipment.

You simply can't use three different links to three different sets of specifications from three different sites and compare by "scrolling down" to find a "sample vehicle" and then rely on those specifications to justify what might or might not be on a dealer's lot printed on the yellow sticker.

I'd urge you to stop by a dealership with a passenger van in stock and take a look at the specifications on that truck. They will not match any of the three links you've posted.

[Eagle470]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Now you're on link #3 to "imaginary vehicles"... Read the GVWR, GCWR and MAX TRAILER specs for the Savana 3500 regular wheelbase passenger van.

GVWR 9600
GCWR 16000
Max TLR 9600

Now, "do the math": If the truck is at GVWR (9600) then the maximum trailer weight can not exceed 6400 pounds (9600+6400=16000).

The "empty weight of the Savanah Passenger van BASE MODEL" is nothing even close to the empty weight of a Savanah van sitting on a dealer's lot with optional equipment. EVERY vehicle built will weigh differently than the "brochures or links" .... In order to get a "real world weight and a real world payload" you're going to have to look at the yellow sticker for the specific vehicle.

I can assure you that with any vehicle line, the payload can (and will) vary as much as 1000 pounds or possibly more, based on optional equipment.

You simply can't use three different links to three different sets of specifications from three different sites and compare by "scrolling down" to find a "sample vehicle" and then rely on those specifications to justify what might or might not be on a dealer's lot printed on the yellow sticker.

I'd urge you to stop by a dealership with a passenger van in stock and take a look at the specifications on that truck. They will not match any of the three links you've posted.

So what donyou recommend?

I can’t legally put the kiddo in the front seat if I had a bench seat.

According to everyone here the trailer for sleeping 11 that I have can’t be towed by anything but a pickup.

I found quigley motor company that can convert the Van to 4x4. Why? Because sometimes you need that extra umph to get moving in places, because it rained or the ground is just soft, or it’s damp tall grass.

I’m to the point where I’m thinking a customized vehicle is an option I’ll have to deal with.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Eagle470

So what donyou recommend?

I can’t legally put the kiddo in the front seat if I had a bench seat.

According to everyone here the trailer for sleeping 11 that I have can’t be towed by anything but a pickup.

I found quigley motor company that can convert the Van to 4x4. Why? Because sometimes you need that extra umph to get moving in places, because it rained or the ground is just soft, or it’s damp tall grass.

I’m to the point where I’m thinking a customized vehicle is an option I’ll have to deal with.

You're trying to justify the unjustifiable....

First, you are correct, the days of sticking a kid in the front seat in a car seat with a plastic tray and a steering wheel are long gone. You can no longer do that.


You also can't put "1000 pounds of 4x4 running gear" under a van with a base weight of 6500 pounds and a GVWR of 9600 pounds and have enough payload remaining to carry your kids in the back seats, carry their gear, fill the truck with fuel, hitch 1200 pounds of trailer and WD hitch to the bumper and stay within the legal limits of the truck (regardless of which link you use to try to justify it).....

Sometimes, you have to either not do what you want to do, or find alternatives that can accomplish something close to what you want to do.

You are going to have to compromise on some things to achieve some other goals (or wants). You may wind up with DW and kids following behind you in a separate vehicle. That's not "ideal" but neither is trying to find a 4x4 motorhome with seats for everyone. Nor is building a "compromise vehicle" that costs way more than is practical, eliminates the ability to tow the trailer you have/want, and is so limited in payload that you couldn't tow "half that much trailer with the kids/DW and their gear in the 4x4 van.....

I don't know of any 4x4 vehicle with seating for 4 children in car seats, that can tow a 37'+ long trailer that weighs 10,500 pounds. Years ago Ford built a E350 diesel 15 passenger van. A friend of ours had 7 kids. He and his DW had a 25' trailer that slept most of them and the older kids slept in a tent pitched under the awning. There were seats for all, a diesel engine that was capable of towing the rig, weights that "fit the specs" and they vacationed all over the midwest, Rockies, southern Canada in that rig. Their kids are all grown, and they still talk about the wonderful experiences they had. It wasn't easy, his DW complained about every trip to the supermarket in that "too big bus" but believe it or not, they all survived, except for the 4x4 part.

So, keep looking, hopefully you'll find a compromise that will work for your family. My point, that I've tried to make several times, is this: DO NOT RELY ON INTERNET SPECS OR ON BROCHURE BS OR ON SALESMAN PROMISES. FIND THE YELLOW STICKER FOR THE SPECIFIC VEHICLE AND RUN THE NUMBERS.... THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN BE SURE ANY SPECIFIC VEHICLE WILL WORK. BROCHURES LIE, SALESMEN LIE, INTERNET SITES AREN'T ACCURATE. YELLOW STICKERS ARE.....

[flybouy]

Eagle470 I've stayed out of this discussion thus far but here goes. To put it bluntly (I'm known to do that from time to time) what you WANT no manufacturer MAKES. I've seen this same thing happen with my BIL first hand.

What you WANT is a 7 passenger, 4 wd SUV to tow a 10K trailer. It simply isn't made. Crusing mfg literature IS misleading. For instance, you can buy a Mustang, Camara, Charger, etc. with extremely high horsepower, beefed up suspension, and racetrack running gear that essentially turns them into a track car. If you go buy the base model with a naturally aspirated V6, stock suspension and running gear then don't expect THAT car to match the performance of the "purpose built" track car, even though they share the same name.

What you NEED to safely tow a 10k trailer is a capable TRUCK. Vans and SUVs make great people hualers. Vans make great WORK VEHICHLES, why? Because work vans have no amenities like extra power windows, power seats, or any other comfort amenities that weight a lot and eat up payload.

If you WANT to make what you want get ready to spend LOTS ON MONEY. There are custom builders that can make what you want and CERTIFY it's capacity to carry and pull the load you have. It's not a " jack it up on cinder blocks back yard DIY" sort of project. I wouldn't put 4 babies and my DW in a rig that's questionable at best. By the time you spend that much money you have an albatross that you'll never get the money out of it and when you're finished likely would have cost you more than a Class C motor home.

You need to step back and take a hard look at what you WANT and what how important that is to you. Life is change and we must change to accommodate life. I wish you much luck in your endeavors.

[NH_Bulldog]

The only capable factory vehicle I can think of off-hand (since kids in the front seat appears to be a non-starter), is a good used Ford Excursion. The stopped making them in 2005 I think, but there are plenty out there that are more than capable of doing what you need. It is only a patch for a couple of years until you find yourself with more kids, and/or needing a bigger camper,. As Flybouy said, maybe just bite the bullet and get a nice motorhome now and be done with it.

[wiredgeorge]

I was thinking about explaining to poor ol' Eagle470 what causes those kids but at my age I am having a hard time remembering what causes it....

[Badbart56]

Just sayin.....back in the day, before crew cab pickup trucks were a thing, and all I had was a regular cab truck. With 4 kids and the wife, if we needed to use the truck for something and everybody was going with us, we used the wife's car to transport at least some of the kids and her. Maybe not ideal in today's "I want it all and I want it right now" world, but it's not that big a deal. I mean ya gotta do what ya gotta do! Just get a capable one ton truck to safely tow your TT. Taking two vehicles would probably be less expensive in the long run rather than spending a fortune on modifying a van, even with the high price of fuel nowadays.

[jasin1]

i’d just get a 6 passenger small suv as a chase vehicle…you could leave the truck hooked up to the trailer for short trips and use the suv to go out sightseeing…if your anywhere longer you may find that some of the kids want to go fishing with dad and some want to go shopping with mom…gives you flexibility.
Easier to unload a small suv in the future if it becomes a pain

[Eagle470]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

I was thinking about explaining to poor ol' Eagle470 what causes those kids but at my age I am having a hard time remembering what causes it....

Of all the comments here, this is by far the ****tiest one made.

I know what makes Children, My wife and I are blessed to have a third child (twins was ruled out two days ago.) and we are looking forward to a fourth.

The only thing I'm grateful for is knowing that I will out breed you and your mentality and my offspring will inherit the earth.

[Eagle470]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Eagle470 I've stayed out of this discussion thus far but here goes. To put it bluntly (I'm known to do that from time to time) what you WANT no manufacturer MAKES. I've seen this same thing happen with my BIL first hand.

What you WANT is a 7 passenger, 4 wd SUV to tow a 10K trailer. It simply isn't made. Crusing mfg literature IS misleading. For instance, you can buy a Mustang, Camara, Charger, etc. with extremely high horsepower, beefed up suspension, and racetrack running gear that essentially turns them into a track car. If you go buy the base model with a naturally aspirated V6, stock suspension and running gear then don't expect THAT car to match the performance of the "purpose built" track car, even though they share the same name.

What you NEED to safely tow a 10k trailer is a capable TRUCK. Vans and SUVs make great people hualers. Vans make great WORK VEHICHLES, why? Because work vans have no amenities like extra power windows, power seats, or any other comfort amenities that weight a lot and eat up payload.

If you WANT to make what you want get ready to spend LOTS ON MONEY. There are custom builders that can make what you want and CERTIFY it's capacity to carry and pull the load you have. It's not a " jack it up on cinder blocks back yard DIY" sort of project. I wouldn't put 4 babies and my DW in a rig that's questionable at best. By the time you spend that much money you have an albatross that you'll never get the money out of it and when you're finished likely would have cost you more than a Class C motor home.

You need to step back and take a hard look at what you WANT and what how important that is to you. Life is change and we must change to accommodate life. I wish you much luck in your endeavors.

Yes, my wife and I are looking at the Custom 3500 Suburban option out of florida. I'm fairly confident I could offload that in my part of the country easily without too much more of a hit than you would see on a normal vehicle.

Some people say you can't have it all. Others would call it foolish to try.

I'm going to quote out a Class A and a minivan option; along with a 3500 Suburban option and paying off the current rig.

I just finished mouse proofing the damn thing, it would be a shame to get rid of it.